Why do so many American fans hate Kai?

dbzfan7 · Post by **dbzfan7** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:45 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Most posts I find are happy with BOG.
Indeed. The thing I usually find some fans dont like about it was SSJG. Otherwise BoG at least from what I've seen has had a positive reception by fans.

I have found negative feedback but it still see more positive feedback (all on other sites)

Fizzer · Post by **Fizzer** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:11 am

I guess it is actually more complaining about SSJG, and just stuff like "GT is canon, BoG isn't" than actual bashing of BoG. I have seen several "that movie sucks" comments, but they are dwarfed by the other things. Most of what I see is "SSJG should have been a golden SSJ4" with bits of "BoG is a comedy with a bit of fighting in it, it's not DBZ". I do think the mass attitude towards GT has changed though. Just the other day a DB-related Facebook page posted an image that made a joke about GT being bad, and it got flamed, the top comments were all pro-GT things like "real fans love GT too!" and "GT is canon, Toriyama drew SSJ4!".

dbzfan7 · Post by **dbzfan7** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:31 pm

Fizzer wrote:I guess it is actually more complaining about SSJG, and just stuff like "GT is canon, BoG isn't" than actual bashing of BoG. I have seen several "that movie sucks" comments, but they are dwarfed by the other things. Most of what I see is "SSJG should have been a golden SSJ4" with bits of "BoG is a comedy with a bit of fighting in it, it's not DBZ". I do think the mass attitude towards GT has changed though. Just the other day a DB-related Facebook page posted an image that made a joke about GT being bad, and it got flamed, the top comments were all pro-GT things like "real fans love GT too!" and "GT is canon, Toriyama drew SSJ4!".

Can't say anything for GT but I do see comments that say "Vegeta was ruined", "SSJG looks like shit.", etc

Hellspawn28 · Post by **Hellspawn28** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:42 am

I think SSJG was not something epic as fans wanted. To me, it was a power up then another form. It was different and cool. I would take it over the gold recolor version of SSj4 that you find everywhere on the web.

KentalSSJ6 · Post by **KentalSSJ6** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:55 am

Fizzer wrote:I guess it is actually more complaining about SSJG, and just stuff like "GT is canon, BoG isn't" than actual bashing of BoG. I have seen several "that movie sucks" comments, but they are dwarfed by the other things. Most of what I see is "SSJG should have been a golden SSJ4" with bits of "BoG is a comedy with a bit of fighting in it, it's not DBZ". I do think the mass attitude towards GT has changed though. Just the other day a DB-related Facebook page posted an image that made a joke about GT being bad, and it got flamed, the top comments were all pro-GT things like "real fans love GT too!" and "GT is canon, Toriyama drew SSJ4!".

SSJ4 was designed by Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Toei Animation's Character Designer. Toriyama did a drawing of SSJ4 for the GT Dragon Box, but it was of Nakatsuru's design.

Fizzer · Post by **Fizzer** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:45 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:I think SSJG was not something epic as fans wanted. To me, it was a power up then another form. It was different and cool. I would take it over the gold recolor version of SSj4 that you find everywhere on the web.

It was more epic than what they wanted. I think what many people wanted was something "badass" and steroid-chugging like Broly, but they got something godly and epic instead, and that wasn't macho enough.

KentalSSJ6 wrote:
Fizzer wrote:I guess it is actually more complaining about SSJG, and just stuff like "GT is canon, BoG isn't" than actual bashing of BoG. I have seen several "that movie sucks" comments, but they are dwarfed by the other things. Most of what I see is "SSJG should have been a golden SSJ4" with bits of "BoG is a comedy with a bit of fighting in it, it's not DBZ". I do think the mass attitude towards GT has changed though. Just the other day a DB-related Facebook page posted an image that made a joke about GT being bad, and it got flamed, the top comments were all pro-GT things like "real fans love GT too!" and "GT is canon, Toriyama drew SSJ4!".
SSJ4 was designed by Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Toei Animation's Character Designer. Toriyama did a drawing of SSJ4 for the GT Dragon Box, but it was of Nakatsuru's design.

I knew that Toriyama didn't design it

Blu-ray_Mistress · Post by **Blu-ray_Mistress** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:55 pm

In the beginning, I was not a big fan of DBZ Kai b/c I had the nostalgia glasses on and didn't like the changes that they had made to the series. (Different voice actors, changing the name of some of the attacks.) Though after having watched the show for probably close to a year now I see now that those changes they made were for the better.

Especially w/ the dialogue which has grately improved over the original Funi Dub.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:30 pm

Blu-ray_Mistress wrote:In the beginning, I was not a big fan of DBZ Kai b/c I had the nostalgia glasses on and didn't like the changes that they had made to the series. (Different voice actors, changing the name of some of the attacks.) Though after having watched the show for probably close to a year now I see now that those changes they made were for the better. Especially w/ the dialogue which has grately improved over the original Funi Dub.

It's always nice to see more posts like these crop up lately.

The world would be a nicer place if everyone were a little more open minded. I get very nostalgic about a lot of things (even the old Dragon Ball/Z dubs), but unlike most people, I try not to confuse nostalgia with quality. I still watch and play things from when I was a kid, but that doesn't automatically make them all good. Of course, tons of stuff from my childhood still holds up very well too.

It makes it hard for me to discuss certain things with people because of that, when I get lots of "I liked this as a kid so it's better" responses to various things.

Basically, like what you like, but just have an open mind!

TheBlackPaladin · Post by **TheBlackPaladin** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:34 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Blu-ray_Mistress wrote:In the beginning, I was not a big fan of DBZ Kai b/c I had the nostalgia glasses on and didn't like the changes that they had made to the series. (Different voice actors, changing the name of some of the attacks.) Though after having watched the show for probably close to a year now I see now that those changes they made were for the better. Especially w/ the dialogue which has grately improved over the original Funi Dub.
It's always nice to see more posts like these crop up lately.

Ditto.

We're not trying to win anything, of course, if you like the old dub better than you like the old dub better. However, it's always nice for me to hear that someone could approach the show with an open mind, without the nostalgia glasses on...and the vast majority of the time, I find that people are agreeing on the Kai dub being better if they take those glasses off.

dbzfan7 · Post by **dbzfan7** » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:33 pm

Blu-ray_Mistress wrote:In the beginning, I was not a big fan of DBZ Kai b/c I had the nostalgia glasses on and didn't like the changes that they had made to the series. (Different voice actors, changing the name of some of the attacks.) Though after having watched the show for probably close to a year now I see now that those changes they made were for the better. Especially w/ the dialogue which has grately improved over the original Funi Dub.

You have seen the light. Now bask in it.

Blu-ray_Mistress · Post by **Blu-ray_Mistress** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:00 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Blu-ray_Mistress wrote:In the beginning, I was not a big fan of DBZ Kai b/c I had the nostalgia glasses on and didn't like the changes that they had made to the series. (Different voice actors, changing the name of some of the attacks.) Though after having watched the show for probably close to a year now I see now that those changes they made were for the better. Especially w/ the dialogue which has grately improved over the original Funi Dub.
You have seen the light. Now bask in it.

Thanks, it feels great to be able to discuss the series with other fans who enjoy it as much as I do.

Blu-ray_Mistress · Post by **Blu-ray_Mistress** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:09 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote: Ditto.

We're not trying to win anything, of course, if you like the old dub better than you like the old dub better. However, it's always nice for me to hear that someone could approach the show with an open mind, without the nostalgia glasses on...and the vast majority of the time, I find that people are agreeing on the Kai dub being better if they take those glasses off.

Exactly. I will always have an appreciation for the original DBZ, it was what I grew up watching as a kid and was basically what introduced me into anime in the first place. However, after watching DBZ Kai and see how much better it is in comparison, it is difficult for me anymore to watch the original episodes anymore with the flaws in the dub and all the needless filler that was in it.

Some people will always want to hold onto that nostaliga because it reminds them of that innocent time of when they were a child, and they are afraid that if they let go of it that part of them will disapper which is not true at all. They can still hold that fondness for the original Z and still enjoy DBZ Kai. Some people have managed to love both series equally.

baneofdemon22 · Post by **baneofdemon22** » Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:10 am

I just got into the franchise this year and tried getting into the original version of Dragon Ball Z. I tried both the Ocean and the Funimation dub and would have given up on the series if it wasn't for Kai. I read and watched a bunch of youtube series saying a lot of obscenities out the Kai and calling it complete garbage. I figured, wow, if I don't like the original, I guess I shouldn't bother with it. I kept trying for days to get into it, but couldn't. So I finally decided just to see how Kai was. I finished the whole series in 5 days and then went right into the Buu Saga. I love it! Previously I hated anime, but I guess I can no longer say that! I just watched Kai for the first time in Japanese and loved it even more! I've gone through Dragon Ball and Dragon BAll Z Kai three times this year and am not sick of it. I went back to watch the original Funimation dub and had all the same problems and only enjoyed the "filler" episodes, until I got to the Cell Games. I really enjoyed it at that point. I think the best way for me is to watch Kai and then the filler. Although, I would really like to watch the original in Japanase, but it would probably have the fight pacing problems, but I could skip through it. Maybe I'll actually enjoy it! I just finished watch Dragon Ball in Japanese and loved it, but then again I really liked it when I watched it in English.

Sorry for writing so much. It's my first post.

Fizzer · Post by **Fizzer** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:32 pm

baneofdemon22 wrote:I just got into the franchise this year and tried getting into the original version of Dragon Ball Z. I tried both the Ocean and the Funimation dub and would have given up on the series if it wasn't for Kai. I read and watched a bunch of youtube series saying a lot of obscenities out the Kai and calling it complete garbage. I figured, wow, if I don't like the original, I guess I shouldn't bother with it. I kept trying for days to get into it, but couldn't. So I finally decided just to see how Kai was. I finished the whole series in 5 days and then went right into the Buu Saga. I love it! Previously I hated anime, but I guess I can no longer say that! I just watched Kai for the first time in Japanese and loved it even more! I've gone through Dragon Ball and Dragon BAll Z Kai three times this year and am not sick of it. I went back to watch the original Funimation dub and had all the same problems and only enjoyed the "filler" episodes, until I got to the Cell Games. I really enjoyed it at that point. I think the best way for me is to watch Kai and then the filler. Although, I would really like to watch the original in Japanase, but it would probably have the fight pacing problems, but I could skip through it. Maybe I'll actually enjoy it! I just finished watch Dragon Ball in Japanese and loved it, but then again I really liked it when I watched it in English.

Sorry for writing so much. It's my first post.

Welcome to the fandom! It's great that you've discovered a love for Dragon Ball. The original Japanese Z does have the same pacing problems as the Funimation dub, but it does have a lot better dialogue and stuff to get you through it. I like switching between Kai and Z to get some of the filler in, too.

TheBlackPaladin · Post by **TheBlackPaladin** » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:46 pm

baneofdemon22 wrote:Sorry for writing so much. It's my first post.

Pfft, no worries! I'm not a mod nor an owner here at Kanzenshuu, but I don't think the mods or owners would object to me calling Kanzenshuu a place where we encourage and enjoy lengthy, intelligent posts (if you want short and infuriatingly stupid, there's always YouTube...not to sound pretentious or judgmental, of course). Welcome to Kanzenshuu and the "Dragon Ball" fandom in general!

dbzfan7 · Post by **dbzfan7** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:29 pm

baneofdemon22 wrote:I just got into the franchise this year and tried getting into the original version of Dragon Ball Z. I tried both the Ocean and the Funimation dub and would have given up on the series if it wasn't for Kai. I read and watched a bunch of youtube series saying a lot of obscenities out the Kai and calling it complete garbage. I figured, wow, if I don't like the original, I guess I shouldn't bother with it. I kept trying for days to get into it, but couldn't. So I finally decided just to see how Kai was. I finished the whole series in 5 days and then went right into the Buu Saga. I love it! Previously I hated anime, but I guess I can no longer say that! I just watched Kai for the first time in Japanese and loved it even more! I've gone through Dragon Ball and Dragon BAll Z Kai three times this year and am not sick of it. I went back to watch the original Funimation dub and had all the same problems and only enjoyed the "filler" episodes, until I got to the Cell Games. I really enjoyed it at that point. I think the best way for me is to watch Kai and then the filler. Although, I would really like to watch the original in Japanase, but it would probably have the fight pacing problems, but I could skip through it. Maybe I'll actually enjoy it! I just finished watch Dragon Ball in Japanese and loved it, but then again I really liked it when I watched it in English.

Sorry for writing so much. It's my first post.

We need more newcomers like you. If only we could have more fans have your thought process.

ShadowDude112 · Post by **ShadowDude112** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:59 pm

Whenever I look up #dragonballzkai on Instagram, I see a ton of people saying it's just dumbed down DBZ for kids and missing a lot of the stuff DBZ had. I almost reply to them, but then I remember what the guy who runs my comic book shop said. He says that you can argue with an ignorant person all you want, it won't change anything. He told me this when I talked about how I see some people I know in my real life talk about how they know super heroes even though they just watch the movies and don't read the comics. Basically, yeah, the people don't like Kai are ignorant and don't know what they're talking about and no matter how much you tell them they're wrong, they won't listen.

TheBlackPaladin · Post by **TheBlackPaladin** » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:18 pm

ShadowDude112 wrote:Whenever I look up #dragonballzkai on Instagram, I see a ton of people saying it's just dumbed down DBZ for kids and missing a lot of the stuff DBZ had. I almost reply to them, but then I remember what the guy who runs my comic book shop said. He says that you can argue with an ignorant person all you want, it won't change anything. He told me this when I talked about how I see some people I know in my real life talk about how they know super heroes even though they just watch the movies and don't read the comics. Basically, yeah, the people don't like Kai are ignorant and don't know what they're talking about and no matter how much you tell them they're wrong, they won't listen.

Well, in fairness, it's not uncommon that it's misinformation rather than ignorance. I've talked a few people into watching (and eventually, loving) the Kai dub who previously swore it off by politely informing them not only of FUNimation's shortcomings in the original DBZ dub, but also that FUNimation sells an uncut version of their dub on DVD/Blu-ray...something that not a single one of FUNimation's ads mention.

Fizzer · Post by **Fizzer** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:40 pm

When people say that Kai is a kids version of Z I'm always tempted to link them to the Kai swearing compilation videos and say there's an uncut version.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:44 pm

Fizzer wrote:When people say that Kai is a kids version of Z I'm always tempted to link them to the Kai swearing compilation videos and say there's an uncut version.

I did that once. On Byond. The responds was

"DBZ had the same swear words"
"That's not Kai that's DBZ".
"That's a fandub"
"Fake"
"Kai quality with Z voices"

Kanzenshuu

Why do so many American fans hate Kai?

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