Question about "hardcore" anime fans opinion on DBZ dub

[JulieYBM]

They are versions of the same product, just like, using your radish analogy, there are multiple types of radishes that are still radishes. Your dismissal and dislike of certain versions doesn't make them any less valid for people to be fans of. And I say this as someone who doesn't care for the dub outside of Kai, or the Ocean dubbed movies.

This attitude is really perplexing. Hardcore crazies on either side are the problem, trying to dictate who is or isn't a fan based on which version they prefer is a ridiculous argument. Everyone who says they are a fan are a fan, it's as simple as that.

Daikon radishes are not Cherry Belle radishes. FUNimation's Dragon Ball Z dub is not Dragon Ball Z. The former lacks the components of the latter. The 1984 Dragon Ball comic is not the 1986 Dragon Ball cartoon. This fact exists beyond whether you, I, or the Klingons have an emotional investment in the matter. I'm not here to tell people what to like, I'm here to tell people what they do like. It's 'okay', people are going to like whatever the heck they want so there is no point having that discussion here. What is important is being able to acknowledge the facts and go on doing what you like.

Exactly. Are Japanese guys who like their dub of Beast Wars less fans than fans of the original?

'Less' than what? If someone is a fan of the Japanese dub of Beast Wars and is not a fan of Beast Wars, but only the Japanese dub of Beast Wars, they are not fans of Beast Wars. This isn't about language or nationality at all. For a lack of a better phrasing, 'separate' is a matter of fact, 'equal' is a matter of opinion. Well, if we'll ignore the unfortunate past use of those words in regards to discussions of more consequence.

[Adamant]

Exactly. Are Japanese guys who like their dub of Beast Wars less fans than fans of the original?

If they only like their dub of Beast Wars and detest the original, then... they're not fans of the actual Beast Wars, no.


Seriously, why is this so incredibly hard to understand?

A is A.
B is B.
If you're a fan of A, you're a fan of A.
If you're a fan of B, you're a fan of B.
If you're a fan of B, but don't like A, you're not a fan of A.
The fact that both A and B are referred to as C doesn't change this.

No one's telling you what to like. No one's telling you you opinion is unacceptable. They're just saying that B is not A.

So they buy things they hate? Which is DIFFERENT from people buying DBz cause they like it. That comparison is comparing people who eat salads despite hating Salad to people who eat American Asian Food. One group is wasting money on buying stuff they hate while the other are enjoying what they like despite it being a different version.

Please look up what "Robotech" and "Macross" are, then reread that post. Your reply is built on misinterpretations and makes zero sense.

[TheGmGoken]

Daikon radishes are not Cherry Belle radishes. FUNimation's Dragon Ball Z dub is not Dragon Ball Z. The former lacks the components of the latter. The 1984 Dragon Ball comic is not the 1986 Dragon Ball cartoon. This fact exists beyond whether you, I, or the Klingons have an emotional investment in the matter. I'm not here to tell people what to like, I'm here to tell people what they do like. It's 'okay', people are going to like whatever the heck they want so there is no point having that discussion here. What is important is being able to acknowledge the facts and go on doing what you like.

What? They are still RADDISH! The main part of their name. Raddish. Just like all AUDIOS of Dbz are DBZ. Funimation DBZ isn't the Korean DBZ. But it's still Dbz. That was a wtf moment to be honest. I'm not trying to sound rude but the main root of the audio is Dragonball Z. The main word is Raddish just a different version. The Latino dub is one of the most accurate dubs of DBZ. But if someone prefers that over the JPN audio then they aren't fans? That's just being a jacaksss otaku who believes only the original source is worthy to watch,

Please look up what "Robotech" and "Macross" are, then reread that post. Your reply is built on misinterpretations and makes zero sense.

My post makes sense and I know what they are. If someone hates Macross yet still buy their stuff is just wasting money and buying what they hate. If someone likes DBZ(Funimation dub) and buys it because of the dub not cause of the JPN they're buying it because they are fans. My point about salads(Made sense when I used it before) was that one group of people ate salad despite hating it and the other is eating an American version of Asian food. It is a Parallel to what I said about people buying what they hate and others eating an different version.

[Ringworm128]

Except B is still A (A #2 if it worries you so much). If someone says they like radish's despite only liking one type of Radish would you tell them they don't like Radish's? Funi's Z is a different version of Z, an adaptation not a different show, it's not the Counterstrike to Toei's Half Life.

[penguintruth]

So for all the fans who buy the dvds, buy the clothes, buy the toys, go to conventions DRESSED as Dragonball characters, and even buy Senzu Bean candy. Just because they like the English dub and never seen the JPN Audio or they prefer the English dub they are not real fans?

That's essentially what I'm saying, yes.

DBZ probably wouldn't even make my top 30 favorite anime, and yet I'm more of a DBZ fan than the dub fans whose favorite anime is that DBZ dub, because I enjoy the show for what it is and they do not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to stop and ask every person dressed like Goku if he watches the Japanese version. I'm not smacking DVDs out of the hands of dub fans. They can like whatever version they prefer and call themselves fans if they like. But I disagree.

[Adamant]

Except B is still A (A #2 if it worries you so much).

But if they only like A #2, they're not A fans, they're A #2 fans.

And that was the point. Congratulations, it appears you finally got the point.

My post makes sense and I know what they are.

Your post is pure nonsense.

If someone hates Macross yet still buy their stuff is just wasting money and buying what they hate.

No, they're buying stuff they like. Please explain the difference between a Macross toy and a Robotech toy, since you claim to know what these franchises are. Your parallel is not a parallel at all.

[Ringworm128]

You enjoy the original version, not the only version. By you're logic most comic fans aren't fans of their favorite series because they don't read the original stuff from the 30's to the 60's.

But if they only like A #2, they're not A fans, they're A #2 fans.

Except A #2 is still a form of A. You're still an A fan if you like A #3, A #4, A #5 etc They're all A's not B's.

[penguintruth]

You enjoy the original version, not the only version. By you're logic most comic fans aren't fans of their favorite series because they don't read the original stuff from the 30's to the 60's.

Apples and oranges. Dragon Ball was written with one narrative intention, one voice, the entire time. Batman has been written by hundreds of writers over 70 years with different eras and narrative voices. Funimation doesn't get a narrative voice. It's not their place to provide their own.

[JulieYBM]

You enjoy the original version, not the only version. By you're logic most comic fans aren't fans of their favorite series because they don't read the original stuff from the 30's to the 60's.

They are not fans of those individual issues. I've never watched the Tenth Anniversary Dragon Ball movie. I cannot claim to be a fan of it because if I have not seen it I cannot form an opinion. If I cannot form an opinion, well, you understand.

Folks, you've got to break this stuff down to the smallest, more specific designation as possible. Frame-by-frame for film and television, panel or even line of dialogue by panel or line of dialogue for comic.

[ShadowDude112]

If someone who watches the Batman films said "I like Batman" would you go "no you don't read the comics"?

Except they're not a fan of Batman. They're a fan of the Batman movies and that characterization of Batman. Same if someone says they're a fan of Spider-Man and only watch the movies, they don't actually know the character and the universe they're in. They just like the movies. They're a fan of the movies that these characters appear in.

[penguintruth]

Batman movies are entirely different productions than the comics all written and created originally by a studio. Funimation didn't create the DBZ TV series.

It's a weak parallel.

[Ringworm128]

You enjoy the original version, not the only version. By you're logic most comic fans aren't fans of their favorite series because they don't read the original stuff from the 30's to the 60's.

Apples and oranges. Dragon Ball was written with one narrative intention, one voice, the entire time. Batman has been written by hundreds of writers over 70 years with different eras and narrative voices. Funimation doesn't get a narrative voice. It's not their place to provide their own.

Says who? Seriously is there some kind of "dubbing 10 commandments" by some kind of anime god? Did Toriyama and Toei say DB was meant to be set in stone? Why can Batman and Superman get away with having a 1000 different versions under the excuse "everyones been doing it for years" yet one different version of Z is a crime against humanity?

Except they're not a fan of Batman. They're a fan of the Batman movies and that characterization of Batman. Same if someone says they're a fan of Spider-Man and only watch the movies, they don't actually know the character and the universe they're in. They just like the movies. They're a fan of the movies that these characters appear in.

Except it's still Spiderman, if they say "I'm a fan of Spiderman" despite only watching the movies they would still be Spiderman fans because those versions are just as valid as any other. If they said I like "Spiderman comics" despite only watching the films you would have a point.

[penguintruth]

Because when you change the narrative voice of the show, the intent of the production, you change the show, and thus it ceases to be the show as produced. Now, of course, leeway can be given when translating from one language to another, but there's a huge difference between translating something and just plain inventing huge tracts of dialogue that change the connotation of scenes and the personalities of characters.

Does the DBZ dub change the characters so drastically as to make them completely unrecognizable to fans of the Japanese version? Perhaps not. But then, neither did the 4Kids dub of One Piece, and you're not going to find many apologists for that.

[Ringworm128]

It may different but it's still DBZ. Funimation's Z is not the Japanese version of Z or even a super accurate adaptation I won't deny that but it's still a version of DBZ.

[ShadowDude112]

Spiderman

I stopped reading right here. Any fan of Spider-Man would know that his name is hyphenated.

[90sDBZ]

cliché plot twist at the start of Z that actually ironically made Goku more like Superman which is something people hate on the dub for. And the Android saga been an obvious ripoff of The Terminator. The way people talk you'd think Dragonball was a well thought out work of art that had been fully conceived in its makers head years prior to its birth. And saying the Funi dub turned it into a kids show is just a ridiculous argument. It was already a kids show and a kids comic. Toei even handled the anime in a way that would sell toys so the argument of Funi making it for kids really is weak.

1. I'm tired of this. Superman isn't the ONLY character in history(not even the most popular character in history) that came from fucking space. Hell in the anime(Not sure in the manga) filler during Dragonball an android already said that Goku wasn't human due to his dna or some shit. Seeing as the anime popularity.....people already knew Goku wasn't human.

2. People complain that it was water down for USA kids. Not kids all the way. There a huge difference thus making thier point strong.

3.

I never once felt like it took itself too seriously. That's the main reason it's my favourite version. It was serious when it needed to be but had plenty of comic relief added in that just sort of flowed naturally with the cast, the score and the way the show was presented that made it a valid take on Dragonball in its own right. You could just relax and enjoy it without overthinking things.

Please this have NOTHING to do with the debate right now. This is not the Kai vs Funi debate. Or why Funi did better onZ than Kai.

I was just using Superman as an example. The fact that there were so many fictional characters from space already makes Goku being an alien even more cliché, as is the whole evil brother thing. It doesn't matter if it was already hinted at in DB. It's still part of the story that's intentionally parodying all those other characters. Plus there are more similarities between Goku and Superman's stories than simply being from space.

Watered down for kids. Made for kids. What's the difference? I don't see how Funi watered anything down apart from avoiding death in the Saban dub. Apart from that death was left fully intact as well as the story and adult humour on the Funi uncut version. It was no more for kids than the Japanese version.

And I don't see how I was being off-topic. This topic is about the Funi Z dub which is what I'm talking about. People are claiming that it doesn't have the right to be called Dragonball so I'm just defending it by pointing out that it still fulfils Toriyama's intention of delivering pure simplistic entertainment that doesn't take itself too seriously.

[Ringworm128]

Spiderman

I stopped reading right here. Any fan of Spider-Man would know that his name is hyphenated.

Sorry I don't pay that much attention to Spider-Man I'l try to remember in the future.

It was no more for kids than the Japanese version.

The Japanese version was made for kids.

[90sDBZ]

Spiderman

I stopped reading right here. Any fan of Spider-Man would know that his name is hyphenated.

Sorry I don't pay that much attention to Spider-Man I'l try to remember in the future.

It was no more for kids than the Japanese version.

The Japanese version was made for kids.

I know it was made for kids. I said that earlier. I just meant that Funi didn't make it anymore of a kids show than it already was.

[ShadowDude112]

I know it was made for kids. I said that earlier. I just meant that Funi didn't make it anymore of a kids show than it already was.

I feel it made it more of a kids show. The butt rock music, the added dialogue where there would be silence, this was clearly made with the thoughts that kids were super dumb and couldn't pay attention.

[90sDBZ]

I know it was made for kids. I said that earlier. I just meant that Funi didn't make it anymore of a kids show than it already was.

I feel it made it more of a kids show. The butt rock music, the added dialogue where there would be silence, this was clearly made with the thoughts that kids were super dumb and couldn't pay attention.

Well I feel that they made it less of a kids show in other ways. Like how the Japanese version would sometimes have annoying super happy sounding music that was obviously to please kids. It got really annoying at times like in movie 2 when Gohan had that dream of Piccolo or the music when Gohan played with Icarus in movie 3 and they played cheerful music throughout as if to say "ZOMG this kid and his dragon are so cute!!!" which was clearly intended to to appeal to kids. They would even have inappropriately happy music playing over episode titles that included stuff like "Namek's Destruction" or stuff like that.

The dub on the other hand had darker music a lot of the time. Especially the Levy and Jonson scores which sounded appropriately dark and chilling considering those scores played in the Saiyan saga when everyone was getting killed off. When you see an episode title like "A Black day for Planet earth" you don't want a happy instrumental version of Head Cha La playing but a dark and chilling track to set the mood for what's about to go down. The Faulconer score also made villains like Imperfect Cell and Super Buu even more scary. I remember being creeped out by Super Buu and his creepy theme tune in the dub when I saw it as a kid. It actually resembled something out of a horror film rather than a kids show.

Also the dub had more subtlety with the episode titles. The Japanese titles pretty much spelt out the whole episode for kids to understand as if they couldn't work it out for themselves.