If a different mangaka wrote Dragon Ball

[FrogTrigger]

Am I the only junji Ito fan here? That guy would make Piccolo a REAL MONSTER

Though I'd fear for the other character's sanity

[Flame Dragon]

^

Yeah, the arc's length or the pacing, is the reason why the enjoyment "section" is a total 0%. it's like nothing ever happening in this damn never-ending war >_>
as for being awful/poorly written, there's a lot of other reasons.

Isn't that how war in general is though? I mean, I've never made it past when Sasuke's brother and that guy with the Shark Sword came in, messed up Kakashi, Guy, and that one women, but then almost got killed by Jiraiya, but, that actually sounds like a cool idea. To have an arc go on so long to reflect how miserable and seemingly never-ending war tends to be.

Except this war is really, really boring. So being so long is not a pro.
War is supposed to be a serious thing, yet this one has zero drama or tension. It's just a slugfest of fights that make no sense, costant powerups, asspull powers out of nowhere, terrible characters interactions and horrible messages that kill any chance for the characters to be relatable. (Naruto becoming the chosen one and obtaining Jesus powers? Awful!)

It'so bad that it completely killed my interest in the series. And i was a BIG Naruto fan.
I completely dropped both manga and anime in sheer disgust.

There's so much wrong with that arc, that if this was a Naruto forum, i could make a giant list of all that is wrong.
The only positive thing about the 4th Ninja War is that i finally got into One Piece after my disappointment with Kishimoto.

[TheGmGoken]

How yall feel bout Nitroplus and 5Pb writing Db.

They wrote Chaos Head anime and manga

[Bullza]

Also, Ichigo is back in the manga, so that's not an issue (even if it was, Ichigo being away gave several characters a chance to shine, something you critiqued Dragon Ball for).

He's back after disappearing for 8 months, before his recent appearance I honestly couldn't tell you the last time he appeared, I think he was shown going down the stairs at one point.

This isn't the first time that this has happened either, I hardly feel like he even shows up anymore.

I don't mind other characters having a chance to shine it's just that Bleach handles it horrendously, they spend too much time on too many characters that don't warrant it. They'll spend a month on a fight between Renji and some idiot, multiple chapters on the Fox Captain, Soi Fon, Kenpachi, Yachiru etc all back to back with no plot inbetween.

[Dbzfan94]

Naruto's a little dragged out at the moment but overall it's a far better manga than Dragon Ball as is One Piece.

The vast majority of the Naruto cast is uninteresting. Absolutely no idea where this is coming from.

If Kishimoto wrote Dragon Ball, everything would be needlessly convoluted under the guise of depth. DB is very open about its simplicity.

Which is why Naruto is better. Dragon Ball is pretty the same old throughout, there's hardly any depth, all the fights in DBZ are pretty much the same thing there's no variety, it follows the same formula over and over, character relationships get no attention, there's no surprise twists, it doesn't matter when characters are killed off because they just come back etc.

Naruto has the vastly superior story, it's fights aren't all exactly the same and the one with the bigger power level wins, the settings are far more interesting and not 90% wastelands, it's characters aren't as likable but they have depth and back stories, it's characters don't all become useless because their power levels are lacking.

Naruto and One Piece far surpass Dragon Ball, though it is in turn much better than other series like Bleach and Toriko.

Giving every character a sob story isn't really a good thing.
And I'm not just hating on Naruto I love P1 like a few others have said. But Shippuden just went downhill they really should've just called it Saskue. I was never one for the fights where the characters are thinking of a strategy for however long before/during the fight. I'd rather have staredowns.


And as many others have said, the whole War arc is just bad. The whole Obito crap, the fights weren't exciting, and Naruto & Saskue being Indra and Asura reincarnated is just pulling stuff of the blue.
Now the whole Kaguya revival (maybe) just end it lol.

I still feel Naruto's gold form (forget the name) is at the very least an homage to Super Saiyan, along with a few other things

[Bullza]

Characters don't just "come back" in DB,

Yes they do, you can give it more meaning but they just come back. Goku came back three times, Krillin came back three times, Vegeta came back twice, Frieza came back, pretty much everyone in the series has died and then come back.

If someone dies it means nothing. Death in general means nothing to the series.

I will point out, however, that Naruto infamously pulled a similar trick with absolutely less forethought than DB.

You mean the Gaara situation?

At least in Naruto you get the sense that if someone dies they'll probably stay that way. Neji's dead, I don't expect him to return. I had no such doubts with when anyone in DBZ died.

Dragon Ball's story is by the numbers and all it's fight play out the same way with mostly predictable results. In Naruto the Chunin Exams story is completely different to the Rescue Gaara story which is completely different to the current story. It's fights are different, Shikamaru's fights are unlike Naruto's fights who are unlike Kankuro's fights.

Naruto leaves you with questions and mysteries that make you want to find out more, whose mind Tobi's mask, is Sasuke going to turn out good or bad, is Itachi really a bad guy. Dragon Ball has nothing like that.

[TheGmGoken]

Who didn't know Tobi was Obitio. Also when has Cell came back?

[Dbzfan94]

Characters don't just "come back" in DB,

Yes they do, you can give it more meaning but they just come back. Goku came back three times, Krillin came back three times, Vegeta came back twice, Freeza came back, pretty much everyone in the series has died and then come back.

If someone dies it means nothing. Death in general means nothing to the series.

I will point out, however, that Naruto infamously pulled a similar trick with absolutely less forethought than DB.

You mean the Gaara situation?

At least in Naruto you get the sense that if someone dies they'll probably stay that way. Neji's dead, I don't expect him to return. I had no such doubts with when anyone in DBZ died.

Dragon Ball's story is by the numbers and all it's fight play out the same way with mostly predictable results. In Naruto the Chunin Exams story is completely different to the Rescue Gaara story which is completely different to the current story. It's fights are different, Shikamaru's fights are unlike Naruto's fights who are unlike Kankuro's fights.

Naruto leaves you with questions and mysteries that make you want to find out more, whose mind Tobi's mask, is Sasuke going to turn out good or bad, is Itachi really a bad guy. Dragon Ball has nothing like that.

Freeza never came back. Neither did every other villain

You bash DB for doing that yet Naruto had the whole Edo Tensei thing where everyone who dued cane back except Jiraya

[B]

Characters don't just "come back" in DB,

Yes they do, you can give it more meaning but they just come back. Goku came back three times, Krillin came back three times, Vegeta came back twice, Freeza came back, pretty much everyone in the series has died and then come back.

If someone dies it means nothing. Death in general means nothing to the series.

I don't understand your point. All of those situations were handled within their proper contexts; the only return could argue was "cheap" was Freeza coming back. What is death supposed to mean to you? In the case of the characters you brought up, they all established that there was a power greater than theirs, thus adding to the tension. Or they showed off the sadistic side of the killer(Freeza to Kuririn, Cell to Trunks and 16).

And like I tried to illustrate before, DB was never really about the fights so much as it was about the characters who were fighting. Naruto needs its characters to have varied battle techniques(and the story overly complex) because what else do they really have? Most of them don't seem to be any fun to be around or likeable in the way the DB cast is.

Naruto leaves you with questions and mysteries that make you want to find out more, whose mind Tobi's mask, is Sasuke going to turn out good or bad, is Itachi really a bad guy. Dragon Ball has nothing like that.

This is where opinions come in, but none of those things interested me at all. I enjoy Sasuke as a wildcard character who just does what he wants, but the identity of Tobi? Who cares? Sure, maybe it's important, but it's not fleshed out in any meaningful or interesting way. And the question of whose side Itachi is on was never actually question until the final moment it's revealed, so it treads on "asspull" territory for me. Dragon Ball didn't need "mysteries" because everything else about it was captivating.

(FYI, I was talking about the mass resurrection at the end of the Pain arc)

[Bullza]

Freeza never came back. Neither did every other villain

He did come back, he was "killed" on Namek and they pointlessly brought him back so he could be killed by Trunks like a punk.

You bash DB for doing that yet Naruto had the whole Edo Tensei thing where everyone who dued cane back except Jiraya

That's not the same because they're still dead. They aren't going to be settling down after all this is over. In Dragon Ball characters can repeatedly be brought back over and over.

[TheGmGoken]

Some people here should read Gyt post.
Bullza just say if Kishimoto wrote Db that more people would perm die.

[Bullza]

All of those situations were handled within their proper contexts; the only return could argue was "cheap" was Freeza coming back.

It's not about it being cheap it's about it meaning nothing. So what if Krillin dies? They can just wish him back? Earth's been destroyed and everyone's killed? It doesn't matter they can wish it back.

There's no death in DB that's sad because you know they'll come back. There's no emotional response there.

DB was never really about the fights so much as it was about the characters who were fighting.

That's no real excuse. The fights are still entertaining but they're damn near all the same. Most characters can pull off the same abilities so there's no particular fights that stands out. There's very little variety in the fight itself unlike Naruto.

Even if don't care about the characters involved in a specific Naruto fight it can still be interesting and unique.

And the question of whose side Itachi is on was never actually question until the final moment it's revealed, so it treads on "asspull" territory for me.

Everybody questioned what Itachi's real motives were long before it were revealed. I remember clearly the amount of discussions on whether Itachi was a good guy, the true leader of Akatsuki, possibly Tobi or if were gonna betray the Akatsuki. These kinds of things kept people reading and kept people interested even if the answer wasn't always that interested.

Dragon Ball never had anything like that because it was so black and white, there was nothing to question or theorise. There's no real betrayals or twists.

[FrogTrigger]

Goken I've never seen/read Chaos Head

I need to step my manga game up that's for sure

[TheGmGoken]

Goken I've never seen/read Chaos Head

I need to step my manga game up that's for sure

Don't worry haha. I've been slacking in terms of manga lately too except ones i care about.

Also Bullza simple and predictable isn't bad. Gurren Lagann was almost as simple as Dbz. Hell so is Naruto. Most if not all anime are predictable.

[Super Sonic]

While they aren't mangaka, I kinda wonder what the series would look like if drawn by Stan Sakai, John Romita Sr or Jr, or Rob Liefeld.

[nhienphan2808]

If Gosho Aoyama wrote it now we'd still not gathered enough 7 Dragon Balls.
If Masashi Kishimoto wrote it we'll have every character with a tragic, tearful, dramatic backstory and we'll have all the hidden philosophical aspects about them as seen in DB laying out detailedly and theorically Those include Buddhism, Daoism and Shinto. Add that to flashbacks and right now we'll still be at Cell Saga.

[KentalSSJ6]

While they aren't mangaka, I kinda wonder what the series would look like if drawn by Stan Sakai, John Romita Sr or Jr, or Rob Liefeld.

Makes me think of Scarz's Western Style DBZ Project

[FrogTrigger]

Goken I've never seen/read Chaos Head

I need to step my manga game up that's for sure

Don't worry haha. I've been slacking in terms of manga lately too except ones i care about.

Also Bullza simple and predictable isn't bad. Gurren Lagann was almost as simple as Dbz. Hell so is Naruto. Most if not all anime are predictable.

I feel a bit better now lol

At the guy who mentioned the Romita's, INTERESTING picks maaaan!

[Mewzard]

Just imagine if Jack Kirby did Dragon Ball. The man was a legend, and did some great stuff.



I miss the King. He was such an amazing comic force.

[B]

It's not about it being cheap it's about it meaning nothing. So what if Krillin dies? They can just wish him back? Earth's been destroyed and everyone's killed? It doesn't matter they can wish it back.

There's no death in DB that's sad because you know they'll come back. There's no emotional response there.

I guess I must ask again, what is death supposed to mean to you? It's not the death, it's the scenario that plays out. When Krillin is killed by Freeza, my initial reaction isn't "No! How sad!", but "Oh my goodness, what's gonna happen next?" When Cell regenerates from his explosion and kills Trunks, it's clear things have taken a turn for the worse because Cell is no longer playing games. When Vegeta sacrifices himself to Buu, two things happen. First, the entire act is an acknowledgement of his life on Earth, his family, and what matters to him beyond being the most powerful. Secondly, Buu immediately regenerates. At this point in the story Vegeta is the second-most powerful protagonist, so when the new villain just gets up after that type of blast like it's nothing, it's being established that this is the greatest threat we've seen yet. There are more emotions besides sadness, and the fact that they can all be brought back to life couldn't be more beside the point.

That's no real excuse.

You're absolutely right. I don't think the fights in DB need to be excused. I just don't see what the point of the story is if I'm not invested in what's going on, even if the scenery is pretty. (I'd argue it completely isn't in Naruto, at least when you get far into Part 2)