Toriyama confirms Golden Frieza's power level...?

[Tsufuru]

[i understand but,
krillin could barely walk with them.
he literly acted like a normal human would act with 22kg shoes.

Maybe in the anime, I honestly don't remember. But in the manga all he does is wear them. We don't see him try to walk in them. And to be fair I doubt a regular human could walk with them on anyway.

well , he was running around like nothing with 40 kg on his back.

after years of training he still was even shocked how goku even moves with them and he was surprised when he lifted them.
what i also dont understand is if base namek saga goku easiely handled 100g than why does vegeta still train in 150g and realizes this late in super that it isnt enough anympre?
even in the buu saga as a F****in ssj he still was training in 150g.....
for me that only makes sense if he was like training for many days non stop.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It's more like "I'm uber-powerful because I've been training with the greatest master in the universe for at least 75 million years," considering that Beerus was apparently the one who sealed the old Kaioshin in the Z-Sword and the old Kaioshin described him as "not as bad as Buu" at the time, in a way that could be implying that he wasn't as powerful or as much of a threat or could just be a "well, at least he wasn't pure evil like Buu is" kind of thing.

We also just learned in Super that Beerus is hundreds millions years old.

[dbgtFO]

what i also dont understand is if base namek saga goku easiely handled 100g than why does vegeta still train in 150g and realizes this late in super that it isnt enough anympre?
even in the buu saga as a F****in ssj he still was training in 150g.....
for me that only makes sense if he was like training for many days non stop.

Toriyama doesn't like big numbers probably. I agree it doesn't seem consistent at all.

It's more like "I'm uber-powerful because I've been training with the greatest master in the universe for at least 75 million years," considering that Beerus was apparently the one who sealed the old Kaioshin in the Z-Sword and the old Kaioshin described him as "not as bad as Buu" at the time, in a way that could be implying that he wasn't as powerful or as much of a threat or could just be a "well, at least he wasn't pure evil like Buu is" kind of thing.

We also just learned in Super that Beerus is hundreds years old.

More like one hundred millions of years old

[DBZGTKOSDH]

We also just learned in Super that Beerus is hundreds years old.

More like one hundred millions of years old

... T-That's what I said.

[KentalSSJ6]

We also just learned in Super that Beerus is hundreds years old.

More like one hundred millions of years old

... T-That's what I said.

Pretty sure that was learned when we found out he sealed Rou Kaioshin in the Z sword.

[Hitiro]

[i understand but,
krillin could barely walk with them.
he literly acted like a normal human would act with 22kg shoes.

Maybe in the anime, I honestly don't remember. But in the manga all he does is wear them. We don't see him try to walk in them. And to be fair I doubt a regular human could walk with them on anyway.

well , he was running around like nothing with 40 kg on his back.

after years of training he still was even shocked how goku even moves with them and he was surprised when he lifted them.
what i also dont understand is if base namek saga goku easiely handled 100g than why does vegeta still train in 150g and realizes this late in super that it isnt enough anympre?
even in the buu saga as a F****in ssj he still was training in 150g.....
for me that only makes sense if he was like training for many days non stop.

Well, yeah. Of course he is going to be able to run around with 40kg like it was nothing on his back. A lot more muscles are supporting the weight in this scenario so it is going to be easier. There are plenty of people that can carry 40kg on their back but have a hard time lifting 20kg. When I was trekking to Everest base camp 20kg was easy for me to carry on my back. But it was much more difficult for me to actually lift it with a single hand.

As for how he is shocked about how Goku even moves with them. It depends on what he means by move, right? It could be move in a combat scenario. "Look at him move." is a very generalised sentence, is he running? Jogging? Walking fast? Punching fast? Dancing?

As for Vegeta using 150g. Prehaps its a comfortable gravity to train at and still get gains but by the time of Super it isn't any more than something to work up sweat? After Namek Vegeta does say he can handle 3 times what Goku trained with.

[Tsufuru]

they use ki , tho.
they are superhuman level by that time.
krillin supports his muscles with ki so this logic doesnt exactly apply like it does with normal humans.
he seemed struggling to even lift them and he also seemed to struggle to even walk with them when he said "how could you even move with them".
while he had absolutly zero problems to lift 40 kg and run around with them.
and the most important thing is it was more than 3 years ago.
and looking at his fight with piccolo jr he improved a lot.

as for vegeta , him realizing that 150g is too low this late is also stupid.
150g as a ssj and in the buu saga doesnt seem comfortable for training more like underwhelming potreyal of the character when a massivly weaker char got used to 100g in 6 days.
7 years and still training in 150g?

[Hitiro]

they use ki , tho.
they are superhuman level by that time.

This matters why?

krillin supports his muscles with ki so this logic doesnt exactly apply like it does with normal humans.

Ki amplifies his muscles, yes. But that isn't going to be much of a benefit if his muscles aren't fully trained yet. Kuririn is going to get a much larger benefit out of using Ki with his muscles when he has reached the limit in terms of physical training. Akira Toriyama stated in an interview that there is a limit to training your muscles and to surpass that limit you need to train your Ki. Kuririn is still a teenager by this point in the manga so he probably doesn't have all of his muscles trained to their limits. It also depends on what training he has done. There are a lot of muscles that go unused because of certain training methods. If you watch the Rocky 3 movie despite Rocky having a world class physique there are muscles he has never trained so Apollo puts him in a training regime to develop those muscles.

he seemed struggling to even lift them and he also seemed to struggle to even walk with them when he said "how could you even move with them".

Again, that may be in the case of the anime but in the manga he is just wearing them. He does ask how Goku could move with them but for all we know "move" could be referring to Goku's specific speed as with the last comment I mentioned. Move is a very generalised term. It could mean any type of movement.

while he had absolutly zero problems to lift 40 kg and run around with them.

As I pointed out it is a completely different scenario. There are a lot of muscles working together when you are carrying something on your back. That isn't the case when you're wearing stuff on your limbs. The limbs are restricted to the muscles on them.

and the most important thing is it was more than 3 years ago.
and looking at his fight with piccolo jr he improved a lot.

We don't know how much he improved and in what area's though. We can't assume that he is at the peak of physical condition, in fact Goku doesn't seem to have all his muscles yet either. Tenshinhan is arguably the only character who has fully developed his muscles by this point. But I believe he is older than at least Goku and Kuririn. The muscles in Kuririn's legs may not have received enough development through his training to be a factor even with amplifying muscles through Ki.

as for vegeta , him realizing that 150g is too low this late is also stupid.
150g as a ssj and in the buu saga doesnt seem comfortable for training more like underwhelming potreyal of the character when a massivly weaker char got used to 100g in 6 days.
7 years and still training in 150g?

That's an unfair comment because we don't know whether he trains at much higher levels of gravity(Which he likely does because he said to Dr. Briefs he could handle 300g). All his comment states is that now 150g doesn't give him the benefit any more. Whereas before it did. Vegeta isn't stupid enough to train constantly at a ridiculously high gravity any more. He'll do damage to his body he won't be able to fix otherwise. Vegeta using 150g may just be the start or it may be something he does on his off days to give his body a bit of a break but still get some gains.

[Tsufuru]

he lifted them in the manga and i dont know if its wrong translation he said" they weigh like a ton".

it matters cuz at that point in the series they are physicaly a lot stronger than a normal human and use ki to get stronger.you dont know when they reached their natural limit , tho.
maybe they already did?

tien in the manga was also seen to struggle when he lifted the boots and the shirt.
yamcha , too iirc.
krillin wears them and at the same time he askes how can you even move with them , that sounds and looks like he couldnt move at all.

also i dont like how you use this real life logic in dbz.
we saw krillin jumping km's high with zero effort.
they trained their whole body.
and even if they have weaker muslce in some areas they still can balance it with ki.
and they had feats that make you think wearing that much weigh makes not much diffrence.

i dont know why vegeta still trained with 150g but toriyama made it look like thats the height g he trains with especialy now that vegeta this late comments how useless it is.

i dont know man , there are a lot of things that i dont understand with toriyama potreyal.
why is buu saga base gohan mach 1.5 only
why did cybord 16 said they need minutes to fly to gokus house a distance of like 8000 according to the map that would make them mach 200 at most.
thats like only 6 times faster than base saiyan saga goku.
which makes them slower than freezer.
it seems for me he just randomly puts in numbers to make it more "interessting".
i dont know.

[Hitiro]

he lifted them in the manga and i dont know if its wrong translation he said" they weigh like a ton".

He picked up one and said "These aren't just heavy!"

it matters cuz at that point in the series they are physicaly a lot stronger than a normal human and use ki to get stronger.you dont know when they reached their natural limit , tho.
maybe they already did?

There really is no proof that they are physically a lot stronger than normal humans. For all we know they are above humans just because of their Ki at this point. If you check the artwork you'll see that none of the turtle school disciples have a much of a notable build than Tenshinhan. I highly doubt that any of them had reached their physical limits by this point otherwise it would be pretty weird for them to look like they aren't that muscle toned. The only time you see any muscle on them is when they are flexing it. Meanwhile you can actually see the tone and definition in Tenshinhan's muscles. Later in the manga you can see Goku has developed muscle further.

Tenshinhan in the manga was also seen to struggle when he lifted the boots and the shirt.

I didn't see him struggle. He may have been surprised by the weight. But it definitely didn't show him struggling. In the anime they do make it look a lot more like he was struggling though.

yamcha , too iirc.

Think you need to check the manga again. It definitely doesn't portray him as struggling to hold Goku's shirt.

krillin wears them and at the same time he askes how can you even move with them , that sounds and looks like he couldnt move at all.

Kuririn does wear them and asks how you can move with them. But as I explained already "move" is an incredibly generalised word. Move could imply how he was moving like he was while fighting against Tenshinhan. It doesn't have to imply he couldn't move at all.

also i dont like how you use this real life logic in dbz.

Training is going to be based on real life logic. There are muscles you do and don't train even in Dragon Ball. I don't see why we shouldn't use this logic. The only times it won't matter is when the person has a lot of Ki because they can amplify their current bodies more. But that is still going to result in a loss against a character who has a great physique being amplified by Ki.

we saw krillin jumping km's high with zero effort.

Why does this matter? We don't know how Ki amping your body works in this. For all we know jumping would put more amplification into their legs when they jump.

they trained their whole body.

How can you know that? They only did certain training regimes. Those would only work with specific muscles. Even if they did train their whole bodies that doesn't mean they have reached their physical limits at this point. Kuririn's physique is a lot different after this point in the manga so he couldn't have trained all his muscles. Same with Goku and the others.

and even if they have weaker muslce in some areas they still can balance it with ki.

Balancing that with Ki will reduce their amplification more though. If you have to peddle more Ki into one area to make it balance out with the rest you are doing to lose the top end of strength you're capable of. It would look something like this:

Uneven arm muscles

Arm muscle 1: 10
Arm muscle 2: 10
Arm muscle 3: 5
Ki: 15

Ki amped arm muscle 1: 13.33
Ki amped arm muscle 2: 13.33
Ki amped arm muscle 3: 13.33

Even arm muscles

Arm muscle 1: 10
Arm muscle 2: 10
Arm muscle 3: 10
Ki: 15

Ki amped arm muscle 1: 15
Ki amped arm muscle 2: 15
Ki amped arm muscle 3: 15

and they had feats that make you think wearing that much weigh makes not much diffrence.

Not really any combat feats until this point. It's easy to understand why everyone made such a big deal of this when you consider nobody has been able to demonstrate that level of feats with weighted stuff before.

i dont know why vegeta still trained with 150g but toriyama made it look like thats the height g he trains with especialy now that vegeta this late comments how useless it is.

Considering we have a line from him saying he could handle 300g I don't see how we should consider that the height of his training. Vegeta is only now commenting that it is useless, it isn't something that has been true for a long time. If that had been the case we would have seen him increasing the gravity long before this. He wouldn't even be training in that level of gravity during the scene if he didn't only just now think that it is useless.

why is buu saga base gohan mach 1.5 only

Gohan isn't mach 1.5? If you're on about him flying to school and back and that speed. It isn't necessary for him to go any faster. Also he probably wouldn't want to arrive all sweaty. Don't forget he is supposed to be travelling to school from an extremely far place. If he was arriving having done a serious workout people are going to wonder what time he arrives because it would literally mean he doesn't have any time between coming and going to school.

why did cybord 16 said they need minutes to fly to gokus house a distance of like 8000 according to the map that would make them mach 200 at most.

You're assuming that they would be using their maximum energy output for this journey? They have no reason to rush. Speed is based on an exponential increase in Energy anyway. That is why the Z fighters don't travel at their combat speed. It is fine for bursts of speed but if you are trying to use that over long distances you are not going to reach your destination. We don't know how the Androids energy works either. They may have an infinite supply of energy but that doesn't mean that the amount their batteries replenish can't be beaten out by using excessive amounts of energy. To put it simply if there energy recovers at a rate of 6 Ki per second and they spend 10 Ki per second going extremely fast then while they have generators that produce an infinite amount of energy they may not be able to maintain the same level of power output.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Pretty sure that was learned when we found out he sealed Rou Kaioshin in the Z sword.

No, that's where his "at least 75 million years old" comes from. In the episode 5 of Super, he says he has been alive for hundreds of millions of years.

[Tsufuru]

my whole point was that krillin and tien shouldnt be impressed by 20 kg at all.
i know that vegeta said he wants to train in 300g.
but implying he got used to it in 3 years and than after 1 year of HBTC and than 7 years who he atleast spend half of it training he was still training in 150g and this late only commented on he should increase it.
not to mention even as a ssj he still was using 150g.

about gohan and the androids you are probably right.

[Hitiro]

my whole point was that krillin and Tenshinhan shouldnt be impressed by 20 kg at all.

They are impressed because Goku is still moving at an astonishing speed even with all that weight on him.

i know that vegeta said he wants to train in 300g.
but implying he got used to it in 3 years and than after 1 year of HBTC and than 7 years who he atleast spend half of it training he was still training in 150g and this late only commented on he should increase it.

There is nothing to say he hasn't used higher gravity levels before though. Like I said we don't know the ins and outs of why he is still training at 150g. For all we know this is the day that he is lightly training to give his body a rest. Maybe the day after he will be training at 300g.

not to mention even as a ssj he still was using 150g.

He probably can get much more gains by training at lower gravity levels for longer. It's like doing weights. You don't lift the maximum you could ever lift once and then leave the gym. You pick a suitable weight and work on it for a good while and then leave the gym. He isn't going to gain nothing by doing a 10 second training regime at a gravity he can barely stand.