Would you have liked to see Pioneer dub the franchise?

[Sailor Haumea]

I like Saffron Henderson as Gohan.

The other Funi VAs are fine. Overall, I prefer the Kai cast.

My ideal dub would be the Kai dub cast, but with Henderson as Gohan instead of Clinkenbeard. I like Clinkenbeard, but Henderson is just...better. And the two are vastly superior to Nadolny, that's for sure.

[8000 Saiyan]

I really wouldn't say he's acting like they have to. More like, he'd prefer it if they did. And sometimes, they can turn out pretty great.
Just listen to Latin American Yajirobe.
Or, Catalan Kuririn
And let's not forget Korean Goten.

Those sound great.

[8000 Saiyan]

I like Saffron Henderson as Gohan.

The other Funi VAs are fine. Overall, I prefer the Kai cast.

My ideal dub would be the Kai dub cast, but with Henderson as Gohan instead of Clinkenbeard. I like Clinkenbeard, but Henderson is just...better. And the two are vastly superior to Nadolny, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, Henderson lives in Vancouver, not in Texas.

[Bansho64]

Those sound great.

I know right! It really only furthers the point that voices that sound like the original can be done and they can be done awesomely.

[Sailor Haumea]

I like Saffron Henderson as Gohan.

The other Funi VAs are fine. Overall, I prefer the Kai cast.

My ideal dub would be the Kai dub cast, but with Henderson as Gohan instead of Clinkenbeard. I like Clinkenbeard, but Henderson is just...better. And the two are vastly superior to Nadolny, that's for sure.

Unfortunately, Henderson lives in Vancouver, not in Texas.

Hey, a girl can dream, right...?

[8000 Saiyan]

Those sound great.

I know right! It really only furthers the point that voices that sound like the original can be done and they can be done awesomely.

To me, the best dub voice that sounds like the original is Chris Rager as Mr. Satan. I think he was the best voice of the heavily flawed Funi Z dub.

Hey, a girl can dream, right...?

Ocean Studios is doing their own English dub of Kai, and it's still not clear if it's coming out or not, but it ever comes out, you will get the chance to hear Saffy Henderson as Gohan again.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I wonder why you didnt went with Mario Castañeda as Goku in Mexico. Because he sounds NOTHING like Nozawa and many have said so in the past yet he is one of the best! But I'm glad you like Yajirobe, he was pretty well cast!

[Sailor Haumea]

Those sound great.

I know right! It really only furthers the point that voices that sound like the original can be done and they can be done awesomely.

To me, the best dub voice that sounds like the original is Chris Rager as Mr. Satan. I think he was the best voice of the heavily flawed Funi Z dub.

Hey, a girl can dream, right...?

Ocean Studios is doing their own English dub of Kai, and it's still not clear if it's coming out or not, but it ever comes out, you will get the chance to hear Saffy Henderson as Gohan again.

Will it have more hilarious censorship?

[8000 Saiyan]

I know right! It really only furthers the point that voices that sound like the original can be done and they can be done awesomely.

To me, the best dub voice that sounds like the original is Chris Rager as Mr. Satan. I think he was the best voice of the heavily flawed Funi Z dub.

Hey, a girl can dream, right...?

Ocean Studios is doing their own English dub of Kai, and it's still not clear if it's coming out or not, but it ever comes out, you will get the chance to hear Saffy Henderson as Gohan again.

Will it have more hilarious censorship?

We'll just have to wait and see if it's censored or not. I personally hope they go with an uncut version. God, I just want to see an uncut dub of one of the most popular animes of all time with the finest talent that Canada has to offer. I believe that their dub will rival the Funimation Kai diub.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

I know right! It really only furthers the point that voices that sound like the original can be done and they can be done awesomely.

To me, the best dub voice that sounds like the original is Chris Rager as Mr. Satan. I think he was the best voice of the heavily flawed Funi Z dub.

Hey, a girl can dream, right...?

Ocean Studios is doing their own English dub of Kai, and it's still not clear if it's coming out or not, but it ever comes out, you will get the chance to hear Saffy Henderson as Gohan again.

Will it have more hilarious censorship?

The censorship was the doing of FUNimation & Saban. Ocean had loads of uncut, faithful dubs like Death Note, Black Lagoon, Escaflowne Gundam 1, 00, Wing, SEED, SEED Destiny, Nana, & several others. They also had edited dubs like Rockman.EXE's & Hamtaro. Mileage varies.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Can someone explain which dub is which?

I know what the Funi, AB Groupe, and Malaysian dubs are, and the Ocean dub is the one with the censorship, but what are the 4Kids, Pioneer, Westwood, and Blue Water dubs?

The edited 1996 dub that aired on TV was a collaboration by FUNimation, Saban, and Ocean Studios. The Pioneer dub is actually a home release deal FUNimation made to distribute the show uncut. So, the uncut films made in the late 90s were produced by FUNimation, Pioneer, and Ocean Studios. These versions were aired and had home distribution in most (if not all) of the English speaking world.

the "Westwood dub" is really the AB Groupe licensed version of the show where they hired Ocean Studios (from Vancouver; the Vancouver location is the Westwood branch of Ocean Studios) to do the voice work for Z only (missing the second half of the Ginyu arc and all of Freeza up until Trunks defeats Freeza). The Blue Water dub is AB Groupe's produced dub as well for the original and GT but not Z. Blue Water is the branch of Ocean Studios located in Calgary (and therefore, a much smaller location with less actors) whom were hired by the AB Groupe. The Blue Water dub is predominantly uncut with original Japanese BGM. The AB Groupe dub was aired in Canada, the UK, and the Netherlands.

There is no 4Kids dub of DB/Z/GT. EDIT: I forgot, the 4Kids 'version' is just a a broadcast version with more edits and alterations of the already edited Funimation/Nicktoons version. They used their own talent pool to redub and replace some lines (they barely did it, but there was a sentence or two that were redubbed) that they perceived as too harsh (Vegeta's line of "get the trash off the battlefield" was completely redubbed by a 4Kids actor to make it more G-rated). 4Kids also made some edits that painted over, most notably Popo was recoloured and lines were removed from Freeza's crotch area. Otherwise it was just the TV version of FUNi's Kai dub that aired on Nicktoons.

I would add that Blue Water was Ocean's non-union studio, & that AB Groupe more or less had lower-budget voice-matches to the AAA VA's in Vancouver. They were about 35% of the cost, which reminds me - it is really strange that FUNi entirely opted out of using them (Vancouver) later on...even today with their massive near-monopoly on anime.

As for 4Kids' redubbing (lol) lines, Sean Schemmel had moved to New York in the early 2k's, for the commercial & prelay work, & so understandably he was pretty heavily available to re-record this stuff.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Oh yeah, absolutely. The best way would be watching it in Japanese. No question.

I'd honestly tell everyone to steer clear from the English dub and watch it in the original language. Sadly, even the English manga is censored with weird translations. So the anime subs is the most accurate way to view the show.

It was to answer someone's question on what would be the best way to view it in English only, and I gave what I thought might be best. Might not be... different strokes for different folks y'know

As a rule (Sub, what is dub?), in general (Sub>~dub), or just for DB?

I ask this because a lot of people from this site, especially those from the pre-Toonami era, use "original language" as a rule. I mean like Mike, Lance, & Ajay (though he can make very intelligent critiques & I heavily respect his opinion), & gravitypriest. & a lot of folks just default to subs because they're available.

Needs a poll IMO

I think it depends on what anime. But the general rule for myself is the original language. However, I regret doing that watching Black Lagoon since there is just so much to take away from scenes where characters are speaking in Russian, Japanese, and English all at once in the same scene; it was harder to follow with subtitles and the dub just has some amazing use of accents and whatnot. I think Cowboy Bebop is another that is great to watch dubbed. The director of Cowboy Bebop from Japan thought it was great, and I believe he thought the dub was better than the original.

These cases are rare and are exceptions to the rule. I think for most mediums, fiction or non-fiction, literature and visual entertainment are generally better in their original language. Not only that, but Japan has a very competitive talent pool for voice acting. The English speaking world's talent pool for voice acting is much smaller and isn't viewed as important compared to "live action" actors. That's probably the reason many people want to see a live action Dragon Ball... but that's veering off topic so I digress.

For Dragon Ball, I only watch it in its original form. I do like to see some scenes in English for nostalgia, but I will not watch full episodes that way.

If there was a Pioneer style dub, I think it would be interesting to watch in full out of curiosity but it would not be my definitive viewing experience.

I think, however, Dragon Ball was so unique and had such animation and art style for it to stand out so much that even if dubs/localizations were awful it was leagues beyond many Western made cartoon productions of that era.

People praise certain dubs like Bebop, FMA, Baccano, Lagoon, Hellsing, Panty & Stocking, Steins Gate, YYH, etc., for fitting the setting, or being "inventive" (accents, "punched-up" lines, jokes etc) rather than the actual acting quality; personally I find them "gimmicky", tho I do like BL's, Hellsing Ultimate's & Steins Gate's, the first two for casting/acting & the third for intelligent adaptation.

As for "original language is better", what would be the original language for, say, an Ubisoft or Platinum Games game (or Resident Evil, Silent Hill, recent Sonic), being written & recorded in separate languages? Would the Sonic, Street Fighter, & Nintendo cartoons be better with Japanese actors instead?

Is it about style & cultural sensibility? Is it just about lipsync? Or is it simply the matter of "redoing the whole show for language is completely unnecessarily expensive"?

& as for Dragon Ball's case, would the anime be "in its original form"? isnt it a (albeit heavily creator-involved) third-party interpretation?

[8000 Saiyan]

As a rule (Sub, what is dub?), in general (Sub>~dub), or just for DB?

I ask this because a lot of people from this site, especially those from the pre-Toonami era, use "original language" as a rule. I mean like Mike, Lance, & Ajay (though he can make very intelligent critiques & I heavily respect his opinion), & gravitypriest. & a lot of folks just default to subs because they're available.

Needs a poll IMO

I think it depends on what anime. But the general rule for myself is the original language. However, I regret doing that watching Black Lagoon since there is just so much to take away from scenes where characters are speaking in Russian, Japanese, and English all at once in the same scene; it was harder to follow with subtitles and the dub just has some amazing use of accents and whatnot. I think Cowboy Bebop is another that is great to watch dubbed. The director of Cowboy Bebop from Japan thought it was great, and I believe he thought the dub was better than the original.

These cases are rare and are exceptions to the rule. I think for most mediums, fiction or non-fiction, literature and visual entertainment are generally better in their original language. Not only that, but Japan has a very competitive talent pool for voice acting. The English speaking world's talent pool for voice acting is much smaller and isn't viewed as important compared to "live action" actors. That's probably the reason many people want to see a live action Dragon Ball... but that's veering off topic so I digress.

For Dragon Ball, I only watch it in its original form. I do like to see some scenes in English for nostalgia, but I will not watch full episodes that way.

If there was a Pioneer style dub, I think it would be interesting to watch in full out of curiosity but it would not be my definitive viewing experience.

I think, however, Dragon Ball was so unique and had such animation and art style for it to stand out so much that even if dubs/localizations were awful it was leagues beyond many Western made cartoon productions of that era.

People praise certain dubs like Bebop, FMA, Baccano, Lagoon, Hellsing, Panty & Stocking, Steins Gate, YYH, etc., for fitting the setting, or being "inventive" (accents, "punched-up" lines, jokes etc) rather than the actual acting quality; personally I find them "gimmicky", tho I do like BL's, Hellsing Ultimate's & Steins Gate's, the first two for casting/acting & the third for intelligent adaptation.

As for "original language is better", what would be the original language for, say, an Ubisoft or Platinum Games game (or Resident Evil, Silent Hill, recent Sonic), being written & recorded in separate languages? Would the Sonic, Street Fighter, & Nintendo cartoons be better with Japanese actors instead?

Is it about style & cultural sensibility? Is it just about lipsync? Or is it simply the matter of "redoing the whole show for language is completely unnecessarily expensive"?

& as for Dragon Ball's case, would the anime be "in its original form"? isnt it a (albeit heavily creator-involved) third-party interpretation?

Those dubs you mentioned in the beginning ARE praised for their acting.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

I think it depends on what anime. But the general rule for myself is the original language. However, I regret doing that watching Black Lagoon since there is just so much to take away from scenes where characters are speaking in Russian, Japanese, and English all at once in the same scene; it was harder to follow with subtitles and the dub just has some amazing use of accents and whatnot. I think Cowboy Bebop is another that is great to watch dubbed. The director of Cowboy Bebop from Japan thought it was great, and I believe he thought the dub was better than the original.

These cases are rare and are exceptions to the rule. I think for most mediums, fiction or non-fiction, literature and visual entertainment are generally better in their original language. Not only that, but Japan has a very competitive talent pool for voice acting. The English speaking world's talent pool for voice acting is much smaller and isn't viewed as important compared to "live action" actors. That's probably the reason many people want to see a live action Dragon Ball... but that's veering off topic so I digress.

For Dragon Ball, I only watch it in its original form. I do like to see some scenes in English for nostalgia, but I will not watch full episodes that way.

If there was a Pioneer style dub, I think it would be interesting to watch in full out of curiosity but it would not be my definitive viewing experience.

I think, however, Dragon Ball was so unique and had such animation and art style for it to stand out so much that even if dubs/localizations were awful it was leagues beyond many Western made cartoon productions of that era.

People praise certain dubs like Bebop, FMA, Baccano, Lagoon, Hellsing, Panty & Stocking, Steins Gate, YYH, etc., for fitting the setting, or being "inventive" (accents, "punched-up" lines, jokes etc) rather than the actual acting quality; personally I find them "gimmicky", tho I do like BL's, Hellsing Ultimate's & Steins Gate's, the first two for casting/acting & the third for intelligent adaptation.

As for "original language is better", what would be the original language for, say, an Ubisoft or Platinum Games game (or Resident Evil, Silent Hill, recent Sonic), being written & recorded in separate languages? Would the Sonic, Street Fighter, & Nintendo cartoons be better with Japanese actors instead?

Is it about style & cultural sensibility? Is it just about lipsync? Or is it simply the matter of "redoing the whole show for language is completely unnecessarily expensive"?

& as for Dragon Ball's case, would the anime be "in its original form"? isnt it a (albeit heavily creator-involved) third-party interpretation?

Those dubs you mentioned in the beginning ARE praised for their acting.

I generally hear praise for Bebop's dub (from people who never watch dubs) in the form of "Bebop is heavily influenced by American films". What they're saying isnt "man, 1998 Steve Blum was so great" (he wasnt), but that "this show is so Western, it could/should probably have been made in English". It is similar for FMA. Baccano & Hellsing's are praised primarily for their accents, & Panty & Stocking for the rather over-the-top swearing. They're praised for "fitting the show" rather than whoever produced the dub putting an extraordinary amount of time & money into the best production possible (Durarara, Tiger & Bunny, Gurren Lagann, Death Note, Code Geass).

It's about overall flavor of the experience rather than the level of production quality (which the Japanese generally do well at anyway, but we only really notice the extremes) of the acting). The reason most anime dubs are overwhelmingly ignored by a good chunk of anime fandom...is that the very over-the-top nature of quite a bit of anime acting, is tailor-made to Japanese, & "Western-inspired" anime (most heavily, & not coincidentally, Cowboy Bebop) can escape this issue.

[8000 Saiyan]

People praise certain dubs like Bebop, FMA, Baccano, Lagoon, Hellsing, Panty & Stocking, Steins Gate, YYH, etc., for fitting the setting, or being "inventive" (accents, "punched-up" lines, jokes etc) rather than the actual acting quality; personally I find them "gimmicky", tho I do like BL's, Hellsing Ultimate's & Steins Gate's, the first two for casting/acting & the third for intelligent adaptation.

As for "original language is better", what would be the original language for, say, an Ubisoft or Platinum Games game (or Resident Evil, Silent Hill, recent Sonic), being written & recorded in separate languages? Would the Sonic, Street Fighter, & Nintendo cartoons be better with Japanese actors instead?

Is it about style & cultural sensibility? Is it just about lipsync? Or is it simply the matter of "redoing the whole show for language is completely unnecessarily expensive"?

& as for Dragon Ball's case, would the anime be "in its original form"? isnt it a (albeit heavily creator-involved) third-party interpretation?

Those dubs you mentioned in the beginning ARE praised for their acting.

I generally hear praise for Bebop's dub (from people who never watch dubs) in the form of "Bebop is heavily influenced by American films". What they're saying isnt "man, 1998 Steve Blum was so great" (he wasnt), but that "this show is so Western, it could/should probably have been made in English". It is similar for FMA. Baccano & Hellsing's are praised primarily for their accents, & Panty & Stocking for the rather over-the-top swearing. They're praised for "fitting the show" rather than whoever produced the dub putting an extraordinary amount of time & money into the best production possible (Durarara, Tiger & Bunny, Gurren Lagann, Death Note, Code Geass).

It's about overall flavor of the experience rather than the level of production quality (which the Japanese generally do well at anyway, but we only really notice the extremes) of the acting). The reason most anime dubs are overwhelmingly ignored by a good chunk of anime fandom...is that the very over-the-top nature of quite a bit of anime acting, is tailor-made to Japanese, & "Western-inspired" anime (most heavily, & not coincidentally, Cowboy Bebop) can escape this issue.

Steve Blum's performance as Spike Spiegel is one of the most perfect performances in any anime dub. He was made for that role.

[huzaifa_ahmed]

Those dubs you mentioned in the beginning ARE praised for their acting.

I generally hear praise for Bebop's dub (from people who never watch dubs) in the form of "Bebop is heavily influenced by American films". What they're saying isnt "man, 1998 Steve Blum was so great" (he wasnt), but that "this show is so Western, it could/should probably have been made in English". It is similar for FMA. Baccano & Hellsing's are praised primarily for their accents, & Panty & Stocking for the rather over-the-top swearing. They're praised for "fitting the show" rather than whoever produced the dub putting an extraordinary amount of time & money into the best production possible (Durarara, Tiger & Bunny, Gurren Lagann, Death Note, Code Geass).

It's about overall flavor of the experience rather than the level of production quality (which the Japanese generally do well at anyway, but we only really notice the extremes) of the acting). The reason most anime dubs are overwhelmingly ignored by a good chunk of anime fandom...is that the very over-the-top nature of quite a bit of anime acting, is tailor-made to Japanese, & "Western-inspired" anime (most heavily, & not coincidentally, Cowboy Bebop) can escape this issue.

Steve Blum's performance as Spike Spiegel is one of the most perfect performances in any anime dub. He was made for that role.

All things being subjective, I respect your opinion (in general, not just "I respect your right to have one"), so I'll leave it there.

[Attitudefan]

People praise certain dubs like Bebop, FMA, Baccano, Lagoon, Hellsing, Panty & Stocking, Steins Gate, YYH, etc., for fitting the setting, or being "inventive" (accents, "punched-up" lines, jokes etc) rather than the actual acting quality; personally I find them "gimmicky", tho I do like BL's, Hellsing Ultimate's & Steins Gate's, the first two for casting/acting & the third for intelligent adaptation.

As for "original language is better", what would be the original language for, say, an Ubisoft or Platinum Games game (or Resident Evil, Silent Hill, recent Sonic), being written & recorded in separate languages? Would the Sonic, Street Fighter, & Nintendo cartoons be better with Japanese actors instead?

Is it about style & cultural sensibility? Is it just about lipsync? Or is it simply the matter of "redoing the whole show for language is completely unnecessarily expensive"?

& as for Dragon Ball's case, would the anime be "in its original form"? isnt it a (albeit heavily creator-involved) third-party interpretation?

I know I am a bit late to reply but I'd like to get a chance to do so.

Personally, for a show like Steins Gate, Bebop, Black Lagoon, Death Note, and others, I thought the acting was as you said fantastic and the adaption was fitting for the audience. Steins Gate, in particular, comes to mind where the acting is top notch but certain dialogue changes are done to make more sense in the Anglo world. Like, the way they adapted the scene with the Black Guy who can speak Japanese was reworked masterfully to capture practically the same joke. Even stuff like "the cake is a lie" replaced dialogue that was less jokey. Yes, the English dialogue kinda needs the viewer to be aware of an Internet meme, but it's still wholly in character and fits the scene to break the tension at that moment. While in Japanese they used puns for a scene like that, in English they make a more 'cultural' joke. I don't see the problem with something like that when used minimally. Sometimes things just cannot be translated literally, especially jokes.

Well, on the topic of an English produced TV show recorded with English speaking actors, based on a Japanese product, I think it is completely fair to watch it in English. Nowhere in my original post am I saying "watch it in Japanese only." I am saying, "watch it in its original form." So if a Sonic cartoon is made in English, it should be viewed primarily in English. Its story is written by people using foreign characters to create a whole new story, and with that in mind, should be judged primarily on the writer's work and how well it works for their intended audiences. Technically, the cartoon would now be an English product for it is written to be that way. It doesn't matter if the original story, setting, and characters come from elsewhere; the English cartoon is a English-speaking adaption (or really, a whole new product, a twist on something that existed beforehand in a different form and not necessarily an interpretation).

Is it about style & cultural sensibility? Is it just about lipsync? Or is it simply the matter of "redoing the whole show for language is completely unnecessarily expensive"?

Depends. Ghost Hunters dub (I think that is what it is called) took a huge dump on the show with the English dub. The original tries to be serious but is really just a mediocre (or really bad) anime. The dub brings something new. It isn't supposed to replace the original, but is there for a certain viewing experience, in this case, something actually watchable and funny.

Stuff like Black Lagoon might work better dubbed for an English audience for the sake of a better perspective on how the characters are speaking different languages and are from different parts of the world. Sure, if you know Japanese, that might not be a problem, but it is wholly lost in translation when reading subs. Accents don't come across properly unless you are viewing it in your native (or another fluent) language. Scenes where people are speaking languages, not necessarily English, are completely lost when reading subs since your attention is focused on reading rather than discerning that different languages are being spoken. Seriously, that one scene in Black Lagoon was so hard to follow and I felt jipped after learning what they did in English. It wold have been great to hear the characters speak Russian, English, and Japanese all in the same scene but I was totally lost when reading the subs. The subtitles never told me that now they are speaking Russian or anything.

The plus is that Black Lagoon has great acting dubbed as well . Good acting is still the top priority (when the dub wants to be taken seriously). Say if BL had bad acting yet still had those distinctions in its scenes, it would not matter because the acting is so bad. To me, it's about the experience of suspending disbelief and feeling like this world is real. Bad acting just takes me out of the experience and I'm not focused on the plot being showcased to me, but all my attention will be on poor acting.

& as for Dragon Ball's case, would the anime be "in its original form"? isnt it a (albeit heavily creator-involved) third-party interpretation

I know this will sound like a cop-out, but technically the anime is its original form. Yes, the manga is the true version of Dragon Ball, but like I said before the anime is its own product and should be viewed and judged separately from the manga. The anime staff could have, like I mentioned in the Sonic example, taken a source (the manga) and created completely new stories with already established characters (think of how American comic book superheros are used). The only reason judge it from the manga is because we tend to think, "it's not original because it is nearly frame by frame the same as the manga it's based on!" It is an interpretation, but it is a new product as well seperate from what it is based on. The manga and the original story is still there without alterations despite the anime. The anime has no bearing on the original and therefore, is its own thing. The directors of the anime have made it as intended by them, not by Toriyama. Judge it by those directors of Toei and not of Toriyama. Same can be said to viewing dubs too but dubs can bring something new to the table and is an alternative to the original (and a new, better or worse, experience) but doesn't replace what is there.