What aspects do you think tarnished the Dragonball brand?

[Puaru]

Honestly, I dont think that the image of the Dragon Ball franchise is "tarnished" to any notable degree at all. It's still looked at primarily as a fun, cool, fondly remembered and very popular franchise.

I only have to compare it with my other two favorite pop-cultural franchises; The Simpsons and Sonic the Hedgehog. Now THERE you can talk about tarnished franchises, oh lord. The Simpsons, while still recognized and revered for it's first 9 seasons or so, has also pretty much become the poster boy for a television show that overstayed its welcome and allowed its quality to reach embarassing lows. And as for Sonic... I honestly dont even want to think about how that franchise completely destroyed its own legacy. Its just to sad. Back when I was a kid in the 90's, Sonic was a superstar. And now he and his series is a laughing stock, being pretty much the symbols of everything from "game series that suck" to "deviant furry-oriented sexuality" to "autism". I honestly cannot think of a single other franchise that have experienced such an epic fall from grace in the eyes of the public. The current disgust against the franchise has completely overshadowed all that adoration that the series earned 25 years ago.

So yeah, in comparasion to the other franchises that I know best, Dragon Ball is doing very very fine.

[sintzu]

Honestly, I dont think that the image of the Dragon Ball franchise is "tarnished" to any notable degree at all. It's still looked at primarily as a fun, cool, fondly remembered and very popular franchise.

I only have to compare it with my other two favorite pop-cultural franchises; The Simpsons and Sonic the Hedgehog. Now THERE you can talk about tarnished franchises, oh lord. The Simpsons, while still recognized and revered for it's first 9 seasons or so, has also pretty much become the poster boy for a television show that overstayed its welcome and allowed its quality to reach embarassing lows. And as for Sonic... I honestly dont even want to think about how that franchise completely destroyed its own legacy. Its just to sad. Back when I was a kid in the 90's, Sonic was a superstar. And now he and his series is a laughing stock, being pretty much the symbols of everything from "game series that suck" to "deviant furry-oriented sexuality" to "autism". I honestly cannot think of a single other franchise that have experienced such an epic fall from grace in the eyes of the public. The current disgust against the franchise has completely overshadowed all that adoration that the series earned 25 years ago.

So yeah, in comparasion to the other franchises that I know best, Dragon Ball is doing very very fine.

If the only way to make it look good is to compare it to Sonic then that's not a good sign.

[Xeztin]

If I had to pick, it'd be the supporting cast being pushed to the side and Gohan getting the shaft when it was supposed to be his time to take over. That's all I can really think of from an in-universe perspective. Other than that its okay, I over look the plotholes. Broly, Dubbed Z, and GT played a big part in the west for it's popularity so I'm not going to say they tarnished the brand because if it wasn't for them Dragon Ball would never be popular here. As much as people hate to admit it, GT played just as big of role as Z in the West, and Broly probably more so.

[ABED]

If I had to pick, it'd be the supporting cast being pushed to the side and Gohan getting the shaft when it was supposed to be his time to take over.

I might agree with the supporting cast thing, but no, Gohan not taking over didn't tarnish the series. Goku is the icon. I'm glad Toriyama realized Gohan wasn't the right character to be the lead. Goku was still in his prime. Gohan was forced into the spotlight.

[precita]

So Toriyama is disappointed in Super yet all the big ideas came from him that weren't so great? The only real great ideas in the modern series are Beerus/Whis and the whole concept of other universes. Everything else almost feels like fanfiction:

- Two new Super Saiyan forms that literally came out of nowhere and are just re-colors? And apparently these were part of the legend all along that even Freeze knew about?

- Freeza returns to get revenge, something Toei themselves did many times even after Trunks kills him.

- Only Goku and Vegeta are getting any proper focus, and even then neither are developing. They're both stagnant characters and have lost their development from the end of the Buu arc.

- The Champa tournament was OK, but the handling of Piccolo, Frost, Buu, etc. were all odd choices to say the least.

- Evil Goku (already done in Movie 3), and Future Trunks returning again? I'm sure you can read this in some DBZ fanfiction from the year 2000-2001.


Super's other problem is a refusal of another time skip. Keeping Trunks/Goten as kids and not setting it at the end of DBZ is also off-putting.

[SansrivaaL]

With how dragon ball super's been doing besides some special episodes like 14 and 39 where they got it ok, almost every episode is garbage, its like they're treating super as something that will always sell even if they dont put effort in animating it, especially with how they've been portraying Goku, Toyotarou's been doing an ok job with Goku but Toei tho.... Goku aint Luffy, he isnt the smartest dude around we know that, but making him a complete retard in some parts is pushing it.

I dont blame Akira Toriyama from not liking this at all.

[sintzu]

They're treating super as something that will always sell even if they don't put effort in animating it.

It has Dragon Ball's name so it'll sell regardless of its quality.

[Captain Strawberry]

The powerscaling which they did fix in Super. Goku and Vegeta have reached their physical peak strength,

[dragon ball truth]

If I had to pick, it'd be the supporting cast being pushed to the side and Gohan getting the shaft when it was supposed to be his time to take over.

I might agree with the supporting cast thing, but no, Gohan not taking over didn't tarnish the series. Goku is the icon. I'm glad Toriyama realized Gohan wasn't the right character to be the lead. Goku was still in his prime. Gohan was forced into the spotlight.

Goku is the wackest lead character ever, he needs to die with all his artificial power boosts.

[ABED]

If I had to pick, it'd be the supporting cast being pushed to the side and Gohan getting the shaft when it was supposed to be his time to take over.

I might agree with the supporting cast thing, but no, Gohan not taking over didn't tarnish the series. Goku is the icon. I'm glad Toriyama realized Gohan wasn't the right character to be the lead. Goku was still in his prime. Gohan was forced into the spotlight.

Goku is the wackest lead character ever, he needs to die with all his artificial power boosts.

Unlike Gohan's? Why kill off either character?

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I think the supersaturation of the Super Saiyan forms circulated on all the characters and all the ass-pull transformations based on it, and its main gimmick used now might have dug its own hole by not only creating a tired-old in-universe cliche, but outside the series looking in. The series' marketability basically narrows itself down to that meme and expectation by both fans and haters alike. Now within the fanbase, a character's only real value is solely based on of they have the form or not.

[Draconic]

The original English dub. Most of the negative conotations regarding the brand are usually made regarding elements prevalent to that. For most outsiders who when looking the show up only find that old dub, the confusion is understandable. The dub turns Dragon Ball in a shitty 80's superhero show, filled with bad music and horrible voice acting. Not to mention all the annoying fans that obnoxiously cling to it as some kind of masterpiece that are very vocal across the internet, bringing even more attention to themselves after the Goku vs Superman Death Battle. It's hard to take the series seriously when you were only exposed to probably the worst way to watch it.

[Anime Kitten]

I don't think anything tarnished the brand. The only thing stuff like GT affected was the fandom.

The original English dub.

That's the Ocean Group dub, right?

[Draconic]

I don't think anything tarnished the brand. The only thing stuff like GT affected was the fandom.

The original English dub.

That's the Ocean Group dub, right?

I meant original not to confuse it with the Kai one. The Ocean cast was Funimation too anyway.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

The original English dub. Most of the negative conotations regarding the brand are usually made regarding elements prevalent to that. For most outsiders who when looking the show up only find that old dub, the confusion is understandable. The dub turns Dragon Ball in a shitty 80's superhero show, filled with bad music and horrible voice acting. Not to mention all the annoying fans that obnoxiously cling to it as some kind of masterpiece that are very vocal across the internet, bringing even more attention to themselves after the Goku vs Superman Death Battle. It's hard to take the series seriously when you were only exposed to probably the worst way to watch it.

I don't think the sloppy old dub ruined the brand of the series, it ruined the fanbase itself who cling to it now, despite Kai and those who are egotistically selective about what they accept about the characters based on their childhood impressions of what the dub changed about their personalities. All the endless debates on things regarding character strengths, feats, quotes and characterizations and the elitism some people have over preference and impressions over actual research within the source material. Most of the fanbase also takes Toriyama way too literally and just assume way too much based on any small, abstract thing he says.

And yes, the who Goku vs Superman debate was interesting enough for an impartial discussion I had with friends, but the way this community responded to the topic publicly was so unbelievably childish, it was enough for me to side with Superman fans more so because of the ignorance I've encountered was so thick from Goku supporters. Some would debate hyperbole, headcanon, inaccurate information, bash Superman, spam screw attack, make excuses, or post videos on the audacity of Goku being compared to Superman, because wank-reasons. It was embarrassing because most people making the claims in favour for Goku, did not have any clue about his actual character, let alone Superman at all. Just personal preference bias.

[coola]

Newest Sailor Moon Musical actress, Kuroki Hikari, had to resign from role, because of trolls, who said she used to be idol, so she doesn't fit Sailor Mercury image http://ainomessage.tumblr.com/post/1459 ... m-sera-myu Seriously, it is very dark day, if actor or actress is put under so much pressure, they resign, to not give cast and staff trouble, i hope these trolls are happy I'm afraid if Dragon Ball cast was changed, new cast will have very hard time

[sangofe]

Newest Sailor Moon Musical actress, Kuroki Hikari, had to resign from role, because of trolls, who said she used to be idol, so she doesn't fit Sailor Mercury image http://ainomessage.tumblr.com/post/1459 ... m-sera-myu Seriously, it is very dark day, if actor or actress is put under so much pressure, they resign, to not give cast and staff trouble, i hope these trolls are happy I'm afraid if Dragon Ball cast was changed, new cast will have very hard time

I was gonna ask why you posted about Sailor Moon, but is it to point out that voice actor changes could tarnish the Dragonball brand?

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yeah, as if the Sailor Moon Thread-----ERRRR----I mean, the "Why hasnt Toei reanimated Sailor Moon" hadnt so very little to do with Dragon Ball already.