Something About Goku Black *Huge Spoiler*

[Chiki]

Why is that? What's wrong with pink?

To be frank, it's a girly color, and it just goes terribly with his outfit. White or red would have looked much better.

Get this gender-color stereotype shit outta here.
Pink being a girly color is a recently manufactured preconception.

Yes, it's a manufactured conception, but it's a conception that basically everyone shares nonetheless and the fact that it's manufactured doesn't change the fact that just about everyone thinks that pink is a color associated with girls in human culture. This is a fact.

For example, breasts being sex organs is a manufactured conception, but I still love women's breasts. Doesn't matter whether or not it's manufactured since they look nice.

'd have to disagree. Sure pink gets associated with girls but even then, that doesn't mean its off limits to being used by a male in any capacity.

I think it's fine in certain contexts. Buu being pink for example, I'm fine with that since he's a big ball of goo.

But a Saiyan, a prideful warrior race, turning pink by transforming into a Super Saiyan, is honestly just ridiculous. Can you imagine Vegeta turning Super Saiyan Pink with his RoF outfit? His entire outfit would turn pink. He would look like a Teletubby or something instead of a Super Saiyan.

[Nejishiki]

Is it a fact? I didn't particularly find Goku Black feminine just because his hair possessed a shade of pink. Really, it's hard to figure how it looks as intended from the blurry scan.

[namekiansaiyan]

Why is that? What's wrong with pink?

To be frank, it's a girly color, and it just goes terribly with his outfit. White or red would have looked much better.

I'd have to disagree. Sure pink gets associated with girls but even then, that doesn't mean its off limits to being used by a male in any capacity. I personally find it to be a contrast and something that we weren't expecting considering the reaction to it.

The main character in Fairy Tail, Natsu, has pink hair and I have never heard anyone complain about it.

This complaining is mainly due to their perceived appearence of an unconfirmed transformation for Goku Black which was influenced by that interview with Toriyama discussing the issue of a white-haired form for a potential character.

[Shin]

To be frank, it's a girly color, and it just goes terribly with his outfit. White or red would have looked much better.

Get this gender-color stereotype shit outta here.
Pink being a girly color is a recently manufactured preconception.

Yes, it's a manufactured conception, but it's a conception that basically everyone shares nonetheless and the fact that it's manufactured doesn't change the fact that just about everyone thinks that pink is a color associated with girls in human culture. This is a fact.

This... is not a fact.

To be frank, it's a girly color, and it just goes terribly with his outfit. White or red would have looked much better.

I'd have to disagree. Sure pink gets associated with girls but even then, that doesn't mean its off limits to being used by a male in any capacity. I personally find it to be a contrast and something that we weren't expecting considering the reaction to it.

The main character in Fairy Tail, Natsu, has pink hair and I have never heard anyone complain about it.

This complaining is mainly due to their perceived appearence of an unconfirmed transformation for Goku Black, which was influenced by that interview with Toriyama discussing the issue of a white-haired form for a potential character.

Also, like I stated in the discussion thread, it's a reflection of how some hold high masculine standards to the show. Anything remotely feminine or threatening masculinity in Dragon Ball = silly. I think as a community we should start to get rid of this since it's very detrimental.

[MCDaveG]

LOL, guys, Trunks had pink hair in Dragon Ball Z!

[spoiler][/spoiler]

And nobody had trouble with that in the 90's

[Chiki]

To be frank, it's a girly color, and it just goes terribly with his outfit. White or red would have looked much better.

I'd have to disagree. Sure pink gets associated with girls but even then, that doesn't mean its off limits to being used by a male in any capacity. I personally find it to be a contrast and something that we weren't expecting considering the reaction to it.

The main character in Fairy Tail, Natsu, has pink hair and I have never heard anyone complain about it.

This complaining is mainly due to their perceived appearence of an unconfirmed transformation for Goku Black, which was influenced by that interview with Toriyama discussing the issue of a white-haired form for a potential character.

That's not the same since he NATURALLY has pink hair, and it's not a transformation.

Pink goes well with Buu because of his personality and Doflamingo from One Piece because of his effeminate personality.

Pink does not go well with Black (his NAME is Black) because he is not effeminate. He's supposed to be evil incarnate, not a Teletubby.

This... is not a fact.

Yes it is. Do you need scientific proof that pink is associated with girls in our culture? It's common sense.

[Draconic]

Wasn't your favorite transformation Super Saiyan 4? You know, the one in which Goku has pink fur? Also, pink is not an effeminate color. Especially not in Japan, where the show comes from.

[ArchedThunder]

To be frank, it's a girly color, and it just goes terribly with his outfit. White or red would have looked much better.

Get this gender-color stereotype shit outta here.
Pink being a girly color is a recently manufactured preconception.

Yes, it's a manufactured conception, but it's a conception that basically everyone shares nonetheless and the fact that it's manufactured doesn't change the fact that just about everyone thinks that pink is a color associated with girls in human culture. This is a fact.

And many people want to get rid of this stereotype because it's bullshit. Pink used to actually be seen as a strong color until somewhat recently. Don't let shit like gender-color stereotypes inform your opinions.

[Shin]

I'd have to disagree. Sure pink gets associated with girls but even then, that doesn't mean its off limits to being used by a male in any capacity. I personally find it to be a contrast and something that we weren't expecting considering the reaction to it.

The main character in Fairy Tail, Natsu, has pink hair and I have never heard anyone complain about it.

This complaining is mainly due to their perceived appearence of an unconfirmed transformation for Goku Black, which was influenced by that interview with Toriyama discussing the issue of a white-haired form for a potential character.

That's not the same since he NATURALLY has pink hair, and it's not a transformation.

Pink goes well with Buu because of his personality and Doflamingo from One Piece because of his effeminate personality.

Pink does not go well with Black (his NAME is Black) because he is not effeminate. He's supposed to be evil incarnate, not a Teletubby.

Doesn't matter if it's a transformation or not. In principle it's the pink hair that's causing a dislike, right?

This... is not a fact.

Yes it is. Do you need scientific proof that pink is associated with girls in our culture? It's common sense.

I know a substantial amount of people who do not draw parallels to the color pink and femininity. Let the gender roles go.

[Rubens]

We have Super Saiyan Pink, folks. What more can you ask for? The Saiyan Rangers can finally all fight as one.

No, the green guy is missing!

(now seriously, we need an artwork featuring Goku's (and Black too for that matter) versions of hair color, assuming the power rangers poses and costumes )

Maybe kaio-shins can acess godly ki too. So if Goku Black is combination of a kaio-shin with godly ki (being a pink aura) and his body's super saiyan.

http://imgur.com/C1ETeeS

Thank Ajay for this.

Awsome !

[Chiki]

Doesn't matter if it's a transformation or not. In principle it's the pink hair that's causing a dislike, right?

The first problem here is that you don't know what "in principle" means. In principle means something like "the basic idea is that." It is not basic. Pink is not itself a bad color for a villain. It looks good on Buu, because of his silly personality which made him a funny and good villain. It looks good on Doflamingo, because he is effeminate and flashy. It suits these villains just fine and there is nothing wrong with pink. Part of their appeal as a villain is that they look like Teletubbies and are evil anyway.

It looks fine on Trunks because he is a really nice guy (actually his hair color is light purple, more like lilac, but that is feminine too so w/e) and the color pink helps establish that he is nice and well-mannered. I don't know about Natsu. I don't read Fairy Tail.

What I'm arguing is that pink is a bad color for Black. It does not suit him. He isn't effeminate, flashy, silly or childlike. He is just an efficient evil villain who enjoys to kill people and is associated with the color black. That is all.

I know a substantial amount of people who do not draw parallels to the color pink and femininity. Let the gender roles go.

Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people associate pink with femininity. It's a fact, sorry. I don't care what a minimal amount of SJWs think. It's a fact that pink is associated with femininity by the vast majority of people.

Wasn't your favorite transformation Super Saiyan 4? You know, the one in which Goku has pink fur? Also, pink is not an effeminate color. Especially not in Japan, where the show comes from.

I said that? Well my favorite transformation is SS3.

[Alruneia]

This... is not a fact.

Yes it is. Do you need scientific proof that pink is associated with girls in our culture? It's common sense.

I know a substantial amount of people who do not draw parallels to the color pink and femininity. Let the gender roles go.

I'm not gonna get into this discussion, but your own social circle isn't really proof. Pink being feminine is still a very real stereotype in Western culture as a whole.

[namekiansaiyan]

Doesn't matter if it's a transformation or not. In principle it's the pink hair that's causing a dislike, right?

The first problem here is that you don't know what "in principle" means. In principle means something like "the basic idea is that." It is not basic. Pink is not itself a bad color for a villain. It looks good on Buu, because of his silly personality which made him a funny and good villain. It looks good on Doflamingo, because he is effeminate and flashy. It suits these villains just fine and there is nothing wrong with pink. Part of their appeal as a villain is that they look like Teletubbies and are evil anyway.

It looks fine on Trunks because he is a really nice guy (actually his hair color is light purple, more like lilac, but that is feminine too so w/e) and the color pink helps establish that he is nice and well-mannered. I don't know about Natsu. I don't read Fairy Tail.

What I'm arguing is that pink is a bad color for Black. It does not suit him. He isn't effeminate, flashy, silly or childlike. He is just an efficient evil villain who enjoys to kill people and is associated with the color black. That is all.

I know a substantial amount of people who do not draw parallels to the color pink and femininity. Let the gender roles go.

Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people associate pink with femininity. It's a fact, sorry. I don't care what a minimal amount of SJWs think. It's a fact that pink is associated with femininity by the vast majority of people.

Wasn't your favorite transformation Super Saiyan 4? You know, the one in which Goku has pink fur? Also, pink is not an effeminate color. Especially not in Japan, where the show comes from.

I said that? Well my favorite transformation is SS3.

Natsu is basically another Goku.

You can't ultimately say it will look bad until you actually see it and we don't know everything about Black.

[WittyUsername]

Does this really have to turn into debates about gender stereotypes now? For me, I couldn't care less about the pink hair looking "feminine". Part of the problem I have with it is that it's basically just a recolored version of the regular SSJ form, and that already sort of annoyed me with SSJB. It just comes off as unoriginal, and feels sort of like a self-parody. I also am getting tired of the trope of giving villains transformations. It was neat back when they did that with Freeza, but now it's just getting silly, and it feels like a cheap stunt to sell more merchandise.

I also feel that pink doesn't really go that well with Black's clothing. It just seems like it would make for an odd contrast. If they really insisted on giving Black his own palette-swapped SSJ form, it seems like white hair would have at the very least made more sense. Seeing pink and blue haired Super Saiyans is just starting to make me wonder if we can expect to see Super Saiyan Greens and Purples in the future, which would really be pushing it.

[ArchedThunder]

Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people associate pink with femininity. It's a fact, sorry. I don't care what a minimal amount of SJWs think. It's a fact that pink is associated with femininity by the vast majority of people.

And with that I know I shouldn't even bother arguing with you, just wasting my time.

[Chiki]

Natsu is basically another Goku.

You can't ultimately say it will look bad until you actually see it and we don't know everything about Black.

I don't think that's a big deal then. I wouldn't really care if Goku had pink hair instead of black in his regular form.

Well, I won't say it's impossible that pink might suit Black's personality in the future when we find out more about him, but we already know more than enough about the way he acts and his personality currently to decide whether or not pink suits him. I think it looks absolutely terrible on him.

Can you imagine Vegeta turning Super Saiyan Pink with his RoF outfit?

And with that I know I shouldn't even bother arguing with you, just wasting my time.

I think the main problem is that you can't counter any of my arguments. Feel free to debate with me if you can come up with some counterarguments.

[Shin]

Doesn't matter if it's a transformation or not. In principle it's the pink hair that's causing a dislike, right?

The first problem here is that you don't know what "in principle" means. In principle means something like "the basic idea is that." It is not basic. Pink is not itself a bad color for a villain. It looks good on Buu, because of his silly personality which made him a funny and good villain. It looks good on Doflamingo, because he is effeminate and flashy. It suits these villains just fine and there is nothing wrong with pink. Part of their appeal as a villain is that they look like Teletubbies and are evil anyway.

It looks fine on Trunks because he is a really nice guy (actually his hair color is light purple, more like lilac, but that is feminine too so w/e) and the color pink helps establish that he is nice and well-mannered. I don't know about Natsu. I don't read Fairy Tail.

What I'm arguing is that pink is a bad color for Black. It does not suit him. He isn't effeminate, flashy, silly or childlike. He is just an efficient evil villain who enjoys to kill people and is associated with the color black. That is all.

My apologies, I'm multi tasking and I'm not too focused on typing at the moment.

My point that I'm trying to make is that Black does not need to be feminine to don the color pink. The pink contrasts well with the dark colors in terms of design, ignoring his personality of course.

In DB tradition, I also find it as a nice gag to have this really cynical villain that's associated with darkness and genocide to have a pink colored SSJ form.

I know a substantial amount of people who do not draw parallels to the color pink and femininity. Let the gender roles go.

Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people associate pink with femininity. It's a fact, sorry. I don't care what a minimal amount of SJWs think. It's a fact that pink is associated with femininity by the vast majority of people.

wat. Nobody said anything about SJWs. Please don't go down that road lol.

Yes it is. Do you need scientific proof that pink is associated with girls in our culture? It's common sense.

I know a substantial amount of people who do not draw parallels to the color pink and femininity. Let the gender roles go.

I'm not gonna get into this discussion, but your own social circle isn't really proof. Pink being feminine is still a very real stereotype in Western culture as a whole.

Wasn't specifically talking about immediate people I associate with.

[WittyUsername]

Wasn't your favorite transformation Super Saiyan 4? You know, the one in which Goku has pink fur? Also, pink is not an effeminate color. Especially not in Japan, where the show comes from.

I'm not trying to get into gender stereotypes, but I thought pink was considered a feminine color in Japan? Isn't that why the pink ranger is always a girl in Super Sentai?

[Draconic]

Pink not necessarily being a girly color has nothing to do with feminism or SJWs. Also, again, the manliest transformation in the show had pink fur. The first real villain of the show wore pink clothes. One of the best characters in the series has pink muscles (he might be asexual in-universe, but Piccolo is as manly as you can get).

Also, again, you are judging this from an western point of view. In Japan, pink is no different from any other color. Dragon Ball is a japanese show and it's aestethics should be judged trough that lense.

You may not like the form. There are valid critiscisms you can make. Pink being girly is just a non-issue and speaks more about you than it does the form.

[Chiki]

My apologies, I'm multi tasking and I'm not too focused on typing at the moment.

My point that I'm trying to make is that Black does not need to be feminine to don the color pink. The pink contrasts well with the dark colors in terms of design, ignoring his personality of course.

In DB tradition, I also find it as a nice gag to have this really cynical villain that's associated with darkness and genocide to have a pink colored SSJ form. Image

I don't think Buu is feminine at all, and I think it's fine that he is pink. Same goes for Natsu and Trunks. The problem here is that I think pink doesn't contrast well with his design and his personality AT ALL. White would contrast well with both his personality and his design.

This isn't a gag manga like One Punch Man though. The Black arc is supposed to be the first serious arc in DBS. This is a big deal and not meant to be a gag arc.