What If There's No Explanation For Goku's New Form?

[TheMikado]

The Genkidama itself gave him a boost but the Genkidama mainly forced him to reach new heights. So basically his body was forced to either learn or die. The "how" of course is not really explained so if that is what you want, yeah - Dragon Ball.

Again, why did the spirit bomb from like 10people could boost or force the body of goku ssbkk20??? It shouldn't be enough to even destroy kid buu or someone that level, also jiren isn't evil, so actually using the spirit bomb to fight him is the most stupid choice but yeah it's dragonball SUPER so it's just make this and that to asspull goku's power

These were the concerns going on and threes are the concerns going out... look it was definitely cool as long as you don’t care about previously established lore. If you’re the type that likes lore you’re pretty much SoL.

[Saturnine]

Oh come on. Like I said in the thread previously - using Spirit Bomb against someone with a pure heart doesn't contradict shit. Having a pure heart only means you can deflect it as far as I can remember, and even Kid Buu could do it simply because of his strength.

Also, the idea was never to damage or kill Jiren, just to knock him outta the arena. The Spirit Bomb is perfectly adequate for that.

Again, why did the spirit bomb from like 10people could boost or force the body of goku ssbkk20??? It shouldn't be enough to even destroy kid buu or someone that level, also jiren isn't evil, so actually using the spirit bomb to fight him is the most stupid choice but yeah it's dragonball SUPER so it's just make this and that to asspull goku's power

Please stop thinking that Goku's new power was entirely thanks to the Spirit Bomb, like A+B. Or that it is the actual source of his new power. It was only the trigger, and a temporary fuel source (no different than say, Freeza lending Goku some of his ki). Goku awakened to this new state due to breaking down internal barriers due to the clash of his willpower against the Spirit Bomb, not because of being powered up by the Spirit Bomb itself FFS.

[PsionicWarrior]

What if no explanation? Well aren't we used to that, just the regular stuff lol

Whoopsie my bad we did get an explanation after all lol
Rejoice!

[ekrolo2]

The form itself surprisingly works real similar to how Goku gets SS on Namek. He absolutely exhausts himself then something on the outside makes him unlock a new level of power. On Namek it was Krillin dying and here its the Spirit Bomb energy exploding and going into him. If it weren't for the 5 and a half people who gave him energy for the Bomb, I would dare say call this solid writing.

[Doctor.]

The form itself surprisingly works real similar to how Goku gets SS on Namek. He absolutely exhausts himself then something on the outside makes him unlock a new level of power. On Namek it was Krillin dying and here its the Spirit Bomb energy exploding and going into him. If it weren't for the 5 and a half people who gave him energy for the Bomb, I would dare say call this solid writing.

The bulk of the Genkidama was always made up of Goku's friends' Ki. I remember in the Boo arc, when Gohan & co send their Ki before the rest of the Earth, the Genkidama got huge.

Not that the form makes any sense. Someone please explain how Jiren created a black hole with his eyes and Goku escaped it.

[Simere]

Just because it was black and circular doesn't mean it was a black hole.

[ekrolo2]

The form itself surprisingly works real similar to how Goku gets SS on Namek. He absolutely exhausts himself then something on the outside makes him unlock a new level of power. On Namek it was Krillin dying and here its the Spirit Bomb energy exploding and going into him. If it weren't for the 5 and a half people who gave him energy for the Bomb, I would dare say call this solid writing.

The bulk of the Genkidama was always made up of Goku's friends' Ki. I remember in the Boo arc, when Gohan & co send their Ki before the rest of the Earth, the Genkidama got huge.

Not that the form makes any sense. Someone please explain how Jiren created a black hole with his eyes and Goku escaped it.

I don't think it's an actual black hole, Whis says the Bomb got unstabble because of Goku and Jiren smashing it back and forth. Goku, after pushing himself to his limits, absorbed some of the Genki to restore his stamina but the overwhelming trauma of that causes his body to unlock the new form.

Like I said, it's similar to what happens on Namek what with Goku burning himself out then a trauma giving him more power.

[oozaru goku]

Again, why did the spirit bomb from like 10people could boost or force the body of goku ssbkk20??? It shouldn't be enough to even destroy kid buu or someone that level, also jiren isn't evil, so actually using the spirit bomb to fight him is the most stupid choice but yeah it's dragonball SUPER so it's just make this and that to asspull goku's power

These were the concerns going on and threes are the concerns going out... look it was definitely cool as long as you don’t care about previously established lore. If you’re the type that likes lore you’re pretty much SoL.

Well said, but I'm the type that likes lore and I think that the continuation needs to care about the old story of its own unless it should be called just a what if story in that writer's vision or sth

Oh come on. Like I said in the thread previously - using Spirit Bomb against someone with a pure heart doesn't contradict shit. Having a pure heart only means you can deflect it as far as I can remember, and even Kid Buu could do it simply because of his strength.

Also, the idea was never to damage or kill Jiren, just to knock him outta the arena. The Spirit Bomb is perfectly adequate for that.

Again, why did the spirit bomb from like 10people could boost or force the body of goku ssbkk20??? It shouldn't be enough to even destroy kid buu or someone that level, also jiren isn't evil, so actually using the spirit bomb to fight him is the most stupid choice but yeah it's dragonball SUPER so it's just make this and that to asspull goku's power

Please stop thinking that Goku's new power was entirely thanks to the Spirit Bomb, like A+B. Or that it is the actual source of his new power. It was only the trigger, and a temporary fuel source (no different than say, Freeza lending Goku some of his ki). Goku awakened to this new state due to breaking down internal barriers due to the clash of his willpower against the Spirit Bomb, not because of being powered up by the Spirit Bomb itself FFS.

Your reasons still couldn't answer my questions that why the 10 people spirit bomb could be powerful enough to trigger or be a source of the power greater than ssbkk20.

[Lord Beerus]

Please stop thinking that Goku's new power was entirely thanks to the Spirit Bomb, like A+B. Or that it is the actual source of his new power. It was only the trigger, and a temporary fuel source (no different than say, Freeza lending Goku some of his ki). Goku awakened to this new state due to breaking down internal barriers due to the clash of his willpower against the Spirit Bomb, not because of being powered up by the Spirit Bomb itself FFS.

Your reasons still couldn't answer my questions that why the 10 people spirit bomb could be powerful enough to trigger or be a source of the power greater than ssbkk20.

Because everyone in the main cast, Gohan, Freeza and Android 17 in particular, have gotten much stronger since the end of the Majin Boo arc and can given energy to Goku's Genki Dama that is much more potent. I mean, I'm certain that if just Gohan, Freeza and Android 17 pooled their power together, they could create an energy sphere of great devastation given they are at least as strong as SSJB Goku.

[oozaru goku]

Please stop thinking that Goku's new power was entirely thanks to the Spirit Bomb, like A+B. Or that it is the actual source of his new power. It was only the trigger, and a temporary fuel source (no different than say, Freeza lending Goku some of his ki). Goku awakened to this new state due to breaking down internal barriers due to the clash of his willpower against the Spirit Bomb, not because of being powered up by the Spirit Bomb itself FFS.

Your reasons still couldn't answer my questions that why the 10 people spirit bomb could be powerful enough to trigger or be a source of the power greater than ssbkk20.

Because everyone in the main cast, Gohan, Freeza and Android 17 in particular, have gotten much stronger since the end of the Majin Boo arc and can given energy to Goku's Genki Dama that is much more potent. I mean, I'm certain that if just Gohan, Freeza and Android 17 pooled their power together, they could create an energy sphere of great devastation given they are at least as strong as SSJB Goku.

frieza wasn't in his golden form and didn't give all of his power, he didn't even look any tired after that spirit bomb scene. It's the same with gohan. There's only 17 who could give power as much as he wants without exhaustion but still, even if it's as strong as ssb as you said, how come it surpassed ssbkk20???

[Saturnine]

[

frieza wasn't in his golden form and didn't give all of his power, he didn't even look any tired after that spirit bomb scene. It's the same with gohan. There's only 17 who could give power as much as he wants without exhaustion but still, even if it's as strong as ssb as you said, how come it surpassed ssbkk20???

Genki is not ki, it's "life energy", and constitutes a part of ki. Maybe characters that have reached a godly level of power happen to have much more genki than regular mortals?

Also since you're nitpicking, the Genki Dama taht was used against Kid Buu shouldn't be able to destroy him either. What's 7 billion humans times a powerlevel of 4? 28 billion - that sounds kinda low for that point in time, especially since Gohan himself should have a bigger powerlevel than an entire Genki Dama like that. Which means genki is calculated differently than fighting power.

[emperior]

I like how the circumstances behind Goku achieving the new form and Super Saiyan are so similar, yet they are total opposites. Ultra Instinct makes Goku incredibly calm, while Super Saiyan made him incredibly angry.

[oozaru goku]

[

frieza wasn't in his golden form and didn't give all of his power, he didn't even look any tired after that spirit bomb scene. It's the same with gohan. There's only 17 who could give power as much as he wants without exhaustion but still, even if it's as strong as ssb as you said, how come it surpassed ssbkk20???

Genki is not ki, it's "life energy", and constitutes a part of ki. Maybe characters that have reached a godly level of power happen to have much more genki than regular mortals?

Also since you're nitpicking, the Genki Dama taht was used against Kid Buu shouldn't be able to destroy him either. What's 7 billion humans times a powerlevel of 4? 28 billion - that sounds kinda low for that point in time, especially since Gohan himself should have a bigger powerlevel than an entire Genki Dama like that. Which means genki is calculated differently than fighting power.

You know the kid buu's spirit bomb contained ALL z fighters power too and yeah only gohan had quite billions of power. It's not only the power of 7billion normal people as you said, but in this dbs it's TOTALLY 9 people with only 2-3 actually at the ssb level and they could perform the power greater than 20 times ssb lol If you're saying kid buu spirit bomb wasn't reasonable I can definitely tell that this is just worse, MUCH MUCH WORSE

[Desassina]

I'll leave it in here, because I think that it's the appropriate place, when in some other topic we were asked about the Omen in his name. Someone correct me if it shouldn't be included or translated like that.

I think that Omen refers to it being a forecast. An occurrence that makes Goku's own power rise to a level that he will have reached in the future. It's similar to the SSJG ritual taking him to a new height from what he had in the Buu saga. Eventually, he will make it his own, but don't expect this "ultra instinct" to show up in the following episodes.

In other words: Goku may as well return to his regular power ups before resuming this state as of now.

[Lord Beerus]

I like how the circumstances behind Goku achieving the new form and Super Saiyan are so similar, yet they are total opposites. Ultra Instinct makes Goku incredibly calm, while Super Saiyan made him incredibly angry.

I've noticed that too. And I really enjoy that parallel as a lot. When Super does continuity nods, they're usually quite good.

[superfan2024]

The form itself surprisingly works real similar to how Goku gets SS on Namek. He absolutely exhausts himself then something on the outside makes him unlock a new level of power. On Namek it was Krillin dying and here its the Spirit Bomb energy exploding and going into him. If it weren't for the 5 and a half people who gave him energy for the Bomb, I would dare say call this solid writing.

Maybe you understand how Goku obtained the form but I think you worded that wrong.

Goku did not get Ultra Instinct by having the bomb go onto him. The bomb only gave Goku limited energy for the time being. The thing that pushed Goku to break his limit was his ability to fight against the power of the bomb that tried to consume him. It was basically Goku fighting against all the team members that gave their energy to Goku.

[Asura]

The form itself surprisingly works real similar to how Goku gets SS on Namek. He absolutely exhausts himself then something on the outside makes him unlock a new level of power. On Namek it was Krillin dying and here its the Spirit Bomb energy exploding and going into him. If it weren't for the 5 and a half people who gave him energy for the Bomb, I would dare say call this solid writing.

The bulk of the Genkidama was always made up of Goku's friends' Ki. I remember in the Boo arc, when Gohan & co send their Ki before the rest of the Earth, the Genkidama got huge.

Not that the form makes any sense. Someone please explain how Jiren created a black hole with his eyes and Goku escaped it.

I don't really understand how the form makes any sense either or how Goku was able to escape the black hole, but I believe the black hole was created because of two incredibly powerful forces pushing against each other and pushing the spirit bomb back and forth caused all that energy to collapse and a black hole was formed.

[TheMikado]

[

frieza wasn't in his golden form and didn't give all of his power, he didn't even look any tired after that spirit bomb scene. It's the same with gohan. There's only 17 who could give power as much as he wants without exhaustion but still, even if it's as strong as ssb as you said, how come it surpassed ssbkk20???

Genki is not ki, it's "life energy", and constitutes a part of ki. Maybe characters that have reached a godly level of power happen to have much more genki than regular mortals?

Also since you're nitpicking, the Genki Dama taht was used against Kid Buu shouldn't be able to destroy him either. What's 7 billion humans times a powerlevel of 4? 28 billion - that sounds kinda low for that point in time, especially since Gohan himself should have a bigger powerlevel than an entire Genki Dama like that. Which means genki is calculated differently than fighting power.

You know the kid buu's spirit bomb contained ALL z fighters power too and yeah only gohan had quite billions of power. It's not only the power of 7billion normal people as you said, but in this dbs it's TOTALLY 9 people with only 2-3 actually at the ssb level and they could perform the power greater than 20 times ssb lol If you're saying kid buu spirit bomb wasn't reasonable I can definitely tell that this is just worse, MUCH MUCH WORSE

exactly, I honesty can ignore all of this if it wasn't for the fact that the "move without thinking" also somehow made Goku stronger and capable of tanking attacks from SSB level characters

The form itself surprisingly works real similar to how Goku gets SS on Namek. He absolutely exhausts himself then something on the outside makes him unlock a new level of power. On Namek it was Krillin dying and here its the Spirit Bomb energy exploding and going into him. If it weren't for the 5 and a half people who gave him energy for the Bomb, I would dare say call this solid writing.

The bulk of the Genkidama was always made up of Goku's friends' Ki. I remember in the Boo arc, when Gohan & co send their Ki before the rest of the Earth, the Genkidama got huge.

Not that the form makes any sense. Someone please explain how Jiren created a black hole with his eyes and Goku escaped it.

I don't really understand how the form makes any sense either or how Goku was able to escape the black hole, but I believe the black hole was created because of two incredibly powerful forces pushing against each other and pushing the spirit bomb back and forth caused all that energy to collapse and a black hole was formed.

The how's whys and whats of the black hole are probably the least of our concerns. I can easily chalk this up to fictional anime shenanigans. This actually doesn't bother me at all because its an absurd amount of energy in a tiny space. I actually take more issue with the fact that it was so powerful in the first place.

[Super_Divine_Genki]

Well, for those analytical minds that are all-needy for full explanations for whatever big event has happened in Super, or DB in general, I think that Episode #110 went way out of its way to give us most/all of the details. I mean, if a near FIVE MINUTE explanation/hypothesizing didn't clue someone in, then...

...

"No! That Black Hole doesn't make ANY sense! " , or "I don't understand what happened to Goku... ? " These types of comments need not be applied here.

Yeah, it's well known that DBS glosses over a lot of things which is one area (of a few) that has hurt the series, but I think that it did very well here, especially by Super's standards. It even provided a name for what Goku temporarily attained... :/

I believe the black hole was created because of two incredibly powerful forces pushing against each other and pushing the spirit bomb back and forth caused all that energy to collapse and a black hole was formed.

Right here

[Duo]

It had build up and an explanation though

1) New transformation has had build-up.
2) No there was not. The only explanation was GOHAN MAD. Much later it was shown that it was an actual evolution of Super Saiyan that Goku/Vegeta/Trunks can do as well. Super Saiyan God is by far the most "explained" transformation to appear in the series as written by Akira Toriyama.

OMG it's like people have never watched Dragon Ball at all!!

Gohan's MASSIVE potential has been teased since Raditz had him crying in a space pod on Earth. Toriyama literally took YEARS before Gohan's potential was fully realized, and even then his potential alone still didn't make him a powerhouse because he didn't commit himself to training and fighting like Goku or Vegeta.

That's how a transformation should be properly executed. Lots or foreshadowing where if you go back you can see the breadcrumbs and trail left by the author to show how a character achieved this journey. We can see exactly all the crap Gohan went through to get to SSJ2 despite his crazy potential. I took years of training, getting beat up, people dying right in front of his eyes before he was able to manifest it into SSJ2. By contrast Caulifa does a back tingle and boom SSJ1, plus she somehow accidentals pops SSJ2 and doesn't realize or know how...

I'm actually tired of this same argument. If people can't see the narrative and literary quality in something like Gohan's journey to SSJ2 vs Caulifa or Kale or SSJ Rage, then they probably never will and only see whatever it is they want to see.

I'm sorry that you completely missed my point. Gohan's character and "Super Saiyan 2" became separate matters as soon as other characters were doing it. I agree with that being probably the best transformation in the series, but it has nothing to do with Super Saiyan 2 itself. Gohan is interesting because of Gohan, not because SO STRONG NEW FORM.

Ultra Instinct is actually more interesting than God or Blue because it is based on Goku as a character, rather than a certain type of Ki or being a Saiyan or whatever.