How will they fix the writing problem that Super had?

[Amir]

what writing problems?

DBS in my opinion is on par with OG DB for the best written series. Z and GT were by far written so much worse.

GT? Yes. But Z? How?

Z had more consistent powerscaling and episode consistency. And they actually showed Goku’s growth as a character. He wasn’t just a child unlike Super. Super was good but its writing was more flawed dhan Z. Infact, Super had the problems of Z and a bit more.

Goku had character development? Lmao. He had been the same in Z from start to finish. I agree that Goku is a bit more retarded in Super, especially in the FT arc and the beginning of the US arc.

The only thing Z had over Super in writing is everything that comes down to power levels. (which was very important) I can argue that power levels aside, Z is almost equally flawed as Super.

[Doctor.]

Goku has a very clear arc in the Saiyan and Namek arcs and he has subtle changes, namely in becoming more selfish and reckless, in the Cell and Boo arcs.

[PFM18]

Goku has a very clear arc in the Saiyan and Namek arcs and he has subtle changes, namely in becoming more selfish and reckless, in the Cell and Boo arcs.

The changes are so subtle it is almost like they don't exist at all!

[Doctor.]

Goku has a very clear arc in the Saiyan and Namek arcs and he has subtle changes, namely in becoming more selfish and reckless, in the Cell and Boo arcs.

The changes are so subtle it is almost like they don't exist at all!

The changes are there. Zephyr and Cipher make compelling posts about it here. Whether or not they feel natural and organic is a different discussion, and I'll say that they feel a bit arbitrary, but the changes to his personality are there.

[Hugo Boss]

An episodes showcases a fight and, in the next episode, those characters are in entirely different locations.

I agree on this aspect, I would probably cut a lot of these instances and keep the relevant fights.

There's also the fact that rules in the tournament are arbitrarily changed to suit Zeno's need for a spectacle.

This one doesn't bother me. Seeing how the Great Priest treated the situation in the exhibition matches, I was expecting something like this would happen in the tournament.

character arcs

Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Kuririn and Gohan seemed to be in-character for me, despite their repetitive moments. Toppo is the one that I take issue with, since he had apparently a conflict inside, but the show didn't explore it as I would like. Instead, it looked like he had decided to leave justice in a moment and later he was doing justice poses. It certainly needs a better handling.

#130 is an example of bad drama because of the way it verbalizes something that was always clear subtext and how it appropriates modern, lesser Shounen tropes and dialogue for its conflict.

I think it's always important to clarify the message the show is passing. I felt that Goku earned that victory due to emotional support of his friends, since he wasn't just fighting for his own sake as he likes to. I admit it's very cliché, but I can't bring myself to not admire Goku demonstrating empathy and concern for others.

Plot points that get dropped: [...]

Energy of destruction is a fair complain, but every technique comes down to brute force anyway, including Ultra Instinct. I never bought the Zenous were just some dicks. I think a lot of people foresaw that wish, because it could transmit a good influence on the most powerful beings of each universe, creating a chain of good influences and helping to keep the balance of all cosmo. I believe that was Zenou's point.

[Miracles]

There is a reason why "he was just holding back" has literally become a meme, and it's not because the show itself keeps saying it, it's the fans. Like Doctor. pointed out, fans are left to fill in these holes and gaps in logic and consistency by using excuses like "holding back", or "they did it to make a cool scene".

The only thing that is consistent about the power scaling in this show is the excuses people will come up with to try and justify it.

Goku using Blue on Kurrin would be holding back.
However Goku using Blue on a Berserker Kale or 17 would NOT be holding back.

Even the fans labels have to be in the realm of facts. Unfortunately it's not the case.

[Hugo Boss]

However Goku using Blue on a Berserker Kale or 17 would NOT be holding back.

Both Goku and No.17 were stated to be not at full power in their fight. You may have a point when he fought Kale the first time.

[omaro34]

17's return was good for the series as a whole but off screen training is not enough justification to explain his ridiculous boost in power. But we have seen this last arc with Trunks, so I'm ok with it.

[Marlowe89]

Both Goku and No.17 were stated to be not at full power in their fight. You may have a point when he fought Kale the first time.

Goku said he was going to use a "little" more power against Kale before transforming from 2 to Blue during their first skirmish as well, which may suggest he was holding back against her. Not that I'm excusing it -- it's still just Toei cheapening the form by stuffing it where it doesn't belong to give it exposure it didn't need, which was a recurring issue throughout the anime.

[Miracles]

However Goku using Blue on a Berserker Kale or 17 would NOT be holding back.

Both Goku and No.17 were stated to be not at full power in their fight. You may have a point when he fought Kale the first time.

True. However Goku is still serious when he goes Blue. We know he has KK Blue for full power.

[JazzMazz]

I think a very simple way to fix a lot of the writing problems in Super, would be to have a genuine series composer at the head of the series, something that Super never really had, and suffered a lot of obvious inconsistent writing due to it.

I asked JulieYBM about what improvements a series composer would offer, and this was their reply.

Having an actual writer to organize the staff's ideas into scripts and assign them would've given more structure, I think. It would've also meant more consistency since they probably would have written more themselves.

[PFM18]

There is a reason why "he was just holding back" has literally become a meme, and it's not because the show itself keeps saying it, it's the fans. Like Doctor. pointed out, fans are left to fill in these holes and gaps in logic and consistency by using excuses like "holding back", or "they did it to make a cool scene".

The only thing that is consistent about the power scaling in this show is the excuses people will come up with to try and justify it.

Goku using Blue on Kurrin would be holding back.
However Goku using Blue on a Berserker Kale or 17 would NOT be holding back.

Even the fans labels have to be in the realm of facts. Unfortunately it's not the case.

No. He was definitely holding back against Kale. He gets thrown around by her and then gets up with absolutely no battle damage on him. Then, after Jiren KOs her then he steps up to challenge Jiren completely unimpressed by the fact that Jiren had beaten Kale. Why? Because he could have easily done that himself. This is further reinforced when Kale cant even take on SSG Goku let alone SSB goku.

[Timetraveller]

Keep Toshio and Tomioka, fire the rest of the writers.

Get writers that worked in series like Gintama or Hero Academia, at least the comedy relief scenes/gag characters would be much better. They wouldve made someone like Ribrianne a fun character.

Gintama and Hero Academia have manga and are written by the manga artists themselves (I could be wrong). The dBS anime isn't based on a manga so Toei hire a bunch of writers who do their own thing resulting in disjointed writing. Toriyama doesn't do much so I'd want to see Toyotaro take over as the main writer. People complain that Toyotaro's work has too much fanservice but that's no different than what the anime tried to do anyway.

[sintzu]

Gintama and Hero Academia have manga and are written by the manga artists themselves (I could be wrong). The dBS anime isn't based on a manga so Toei hire a bunch of writers who do their own thing resulting in disjointed writing. Toriyama doesn't do much so I'd want to see Toyotaro take over as the main writer. People complain that Toyotaro's work has too much fanservice but that's no different than what the anime tried to do anyway.

I think the best thing they could do is move Super's manga over to Weekly Jump and give Toyotarou a good head start so the anime will have source material to base things off of.

[prince212]

Gintama and Hero Academia have manga and are written by the manga artists themselves (I could be wrong). The dBS anime isn't based on a manga so Toei hire a bunch of writers who do their own thing resulting in disjointed writing. Toriyama doesn't do much so I'd want to see Toyotaro take over as the main writer. People complain that Toyotaro's work has too much fanservice but that's no different than what the anime tried to do anyway.

I think the best thing they could do is move Super's manga over to Weekly Jump and give Toyotarou a good head start so the anime will have source material to base things off of.

That’s the way , Toriyama basic scrips , toyotaro work , Toriyama editor , toyotaro final work and after one manga is done , anime can expand starting with a solid base .
I know some people like the two cointinuities thing , but at the end it was just one because the end results are the same .
It’s either that or anime having just one main brain connecting all the chapters writings .
Anime screw coherence between one chapters way often , I still remember the final of an episode vegeta was all burned after defeating Toppo , Beerus telling that he barely has energies , and at the beginning of the next episode he was blue again ....

[Miracles]

No. He was definitely holding back against Kale. He gets thrown around by her and then gets up with absolutely no battle damage on him. Then, after Jiren KOs her then he steps up to challenge Jiren completely unimpressed by the fact that Jiren had beaten Kale. Why? Because he could have easily done that himself. This is further reinforced when Kale cant even take on SSG Goku let alone SSB goku.

Kale casually walked through a Blue Kamehameha at point blank with no damage at all. After that she was about to thrash Goku but Piccolo mentions Kale could not control her powers and starts breathing heavy.
This is why Goku didn't take any damage. The very fact that Vegeta, Toppo, Jiren, Beerus all recognize Berserker Kale in her second coming is another proof that she is blue level.

Kale did indeed take on SSG Goku, she actually fought him evenly and was never defeated by him. Let's not forget that Kale fought a stronger Goku from her first encounter since Goku broke his limits after his fight with Jiren in the special. Caulifla even notes the difference in Goku's power after clashing with SSJ2 Goku a second time asking "Is this the same SSJ2 power?" Berserker Kale is indeed Blue level back then.

[PFM18]

No. He was definitely holding back against Kale. He gets thrown around by her and then gets up with absolutely no battle damage on him. Then, after Jiren KOs her then he steps up to challenge Jiren completely unimpressed by the fact that Jiren had beaten Kale. Why? Because he could have easily done that himself. This is further reinforced when Kale cant even take on SSG Goku let alone SSB goku.

Kale casually walked through a Blue Kamehameha at point blank with no damage at all. After that she was about to thrash Goku but Piccolo mentions Kale could not control her powers and starts breathing heavy.
This is why Goku didn't take any damage. The very fact that Vegeta, Toppo, Jiren, Beerus all recognize Berserker Kale in her second coming is another proof that she is blue level.

Kale did indeed take on SSG Goku, she actually fought him evenly and was never defeated by him. Let's not forget that Kale fought a stronger Goku from her first encounter since Goku broke his limits after his fight with Jiren in the special. Caulifla even notes the difference in Goku's power after clashing with SSJ2 Goku a second time asking "Is this the same SSJ2 power?" Berserker Kale is indeed Blue level back then.

Yes she casually walked through the Blue Kamehameha from that suppressed Goku.. The scene was there to pay an homeage tot eh first homage movie not to show Kale's power. The series shows subtle hints that Blue isn't actually concerned as afar as Kale's power goes. That is why when Kale got stronger she still couldn't take out SSG Goku. I she was even with him then Caulifla+Kale being even would have meant Goku would have lost. Since, she actually WAS weaker than him then he could take out both of them and they were forced to fuse with each other.

Goku broke through his limits to acquire Ultra Instinct. In that form his limits were broken from what was shown previously.

Gintama and Hero Academia have manga and are written by the manga artists themselves (I could be wrong). The dBS anime isn't based on a manga so Toei hire a bunch of writers who do their own thing resulting in disjointed writing. Toriyama doesn't do much so I'd want to see Toyotaro take over as the main writer. People complain that Toyotaro's work has too much fanservice but that's no different than what the anime tried to do anyway.

I think the best thing they could do is move Super's manga over to Weekly Jump and give Toyotarou a good head start so the anime will have source material to base things off of.

And what base the anime on Toyotaro's manga? No thanks Toyotaro is only good for art purposes.

[Miracles]

Yes she casually walked through the Blue Kamehameha from that suppressed Goku.. The scene was there to pay an homeage tot eh first homage movie not to show Kale's power. The series shows subtle hints that Blue isn't actually concerned as afar as Kale's power goes. That is why when Kale got stronger she still couldn't take out SSG Goku. I she was even with him then Caulifla+Kale being even would have meant Goku would have lost. Since, she actually WAS weaker than him then he could take out both of them and they were forced to fuse with each other.

Goku broke through his limits to acquire Ultra Instinct. In that form his limits were broken from what was shown previously.

Goku's limits breaking increases overall power. Hence why Caulifla even implies Goku got stronger when she fought him after Jiren. It was not stated that Goku was suppressed in Blue against Kale.
The fact that Jiren, Toppo and the rest of the blue level beings were concerned about her second showing proves she is Blue level. She wouldn't get their attention AGAIN if her powers weren't worthy of such a level.

[ssj4goku1992]

Lol we have Goku and Vegeta mopping floors and making the bed ... Jesus.. Are you like in some kind of religion where you feel the need to defend every imbecile aspect of it?

Do you really believe that this is the reason why DBZ was the absolute hit that it was? The anime that put Japan on the map in animated series? Because of "funny" stuff? Because of gods of destruction who look like they are out of Tom and Jerry? Because of love arrows and travestites? Really?

Or may it have anything to do with dbz's serious tone, fight against evil and SERIOUS looking characters ( there's a reason broly's by far the most popular non canon character ), growing stronger, breaking your limits, SERIOUS things basically?... With serious characters who look the part and a serious story who is more or less logical and straightforward. This moment Goku's 80% of Beerus, the other he's 5... The baddest guy in the universe wants pudding...

They made it a retarded teletubbies like series for 5 year old kids... Compare it to Majin Vegeta and his speech for example... And you have the guts to ask what problems???

Toriyama is an old senile man he's goodbye. He just made a mockery of the most popular and with the most devoted fans series of all time... They should all be ashamed..

[PFM18]

Lol we have Goku and Vegeta mopping floors and making the bed ... Jesus.. Are you like in some kind of religion where you feel the need to defend every imbecile aspect of it?

Do you really believe that this is the reason why DBZ was the absolute hit that it was? The anime that put Japan on the map in animated series? Because of "funny" stuff? Because of gods of destruction who look like they are out of Tom and Jerry? Because of love arrows and travestites? Really?

Or may it have anything to do with dbz's serious tone, fight against evil and SERIOUS looking characters ( there's a reason broly's by far the most popular non canon character ), growing stronger, breaking your limits, SERIOUS things basically?... With serious characters who look the part and a serious story who is more or less logical and straightforward. This moment Goku's 80% of Beerus, the other he's 5... The baddest guy in the universe wants pudding...

They made it a retarded teletubbies like series for 5 year old kids... Compare it to Majin Vegeta and his speech for example... And you have the guts to ask what problems???

Toriyama is an old senile man he's goodbye. He just made a mockery of the most popular and with the most devoted fans series of all time... They should all be ashamed..

Dude what are you talking about?

Yes she casually walked through the Blue Kamehameha from that suppressed Goku.. The scene was there to pay an homeage tot eh first homage movie not to show Kale's power. The series shows subtle hints that Blue isn't actually concerned as afar as Kale's power goes. That is why when Kale got stronger she still couldn't take out SSG Goku. I she was even with him then Caulifla+Kale being even would have meant Goku would have lost. Since, she actually WAS weaker than him then he could take out both of them and they were forced to fuse with each other.

Goku broke through his limits to acquire Ultra Instinct. In that form his limits were broken from what was shown previously.

Goku's limits breaking increases overall power. Hence why Caulifla even implies Goku got stronger when she fought him after Jiren. It was not stated that Goku was suppressed in Blue against Kale.
The fact that Jiren, Toppo and the rest of the blue level beings were concerned about her second showing proves she is Blue level. She wouldn't get their attention AGAIN if her powers weren't worthy of such a level.

She isn't Blue level because she was never shown to be blue level. It really is that simple. Goku was clearly suppressed against her when he was blue and the scene was only there for an homage to Broly. The writers made it very clear he was suppressed by subtle hints of sorts. Hence why she wasn't even enough to defeat SSG and she was forced to fuse with Caulifla. If one of the components of this fusion was stronger than Blue already, then Kefla would have been much stronger than she was given the absolutely massive power boost that fusion yields.