Opinions on the original Funi Dragon Ball dub

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

This is just me speaking so take it for what you will but:

If I was a musician who liked this series and had a deep respect for it and got picked to come up with an original score to replace the original Kikuchi score, I think the most respectful thing to do would be to turn down the job to begin with and tell them to find someone else because I just couldn't do that to a work I love and respect.

Even if I needed the money, I'm sure I could find another gig that didn't involve altering something I love and respect because the big wigs that made this decision thought they could produce something better, didn't want to pay royalties, wanted their own royalties, etc. It would feel fundamentally wrong of me to go through with it.

The most respectful thing would be to just not do it in the first place. Replacing the score was a misguided (at best) decision to begin with.

Meh, that's an overly romanticized take, and none of those guys had any familiarity with the show prior to Dragon Ball anyway. They were musicians trying to make a living from something they liked doing, took the job that came to them, and did it to the best of their ability while trying to best capture what was given to them. It's as simple as that.

I’ll second this.

I don’t buy for a moment that they respected the show, but the thing is they’re under no obligation to respect it. They were musicians hired by some upstart producer to create a brand new score for some Japanese kids cartoon most of them probably never heard of to that producers specification. Can’t really fault any of them for doing the job they were hired to do.

Agreed. I'd also add for all Team Faulconer knew the Japanese license holder may have mandated the changes. Obviously we know that's not the case, but it's doubtful Faulconer and his crew would have had the time to research the job they were asked to do and question it's faithfulness or lack thereof. Considering this was at the beginning of the Pokemon boom any musician probably would have seen this as a huge opportunity to strike while the iron's hot and have their piece of the next big pie. And who can fault them, they had bills to pay like everyone else, so why wouldn't they take the job when they didn't know any better.

[ABED]

Regardless if they are die hard fans, it's a job. If you are offered the job to rescore a show, take the paycheck. They could be the biggest die hard DB fans but but they also have bills to pay and a career they wish to pursue.

[Majin Buu]

They respected what they were given, which was an altered version of a Japanese cartoon. I don't know why it needs to be any deeper than that. You do the job that's in front of you.

My point is that the job itself was disrespectful to begin with.

Not saying they're bad people, and yes, they just did what they were hired to do (the blame lies with Gen Fukunaga and Barry Watson (someone correct me if I'm wrong there) ); but the quote I responded to claimed that they "respected" the series, and that claim just feels hollow to me since they ultimately participated in replacing the original score, which feels like the exact opposite of "respectful".

[ABED]

Might as well have gone with Faulconer for consistency's sake. That way you pull in the DBZ audience that would just ignore the show otherwise. If not Faulconer, then someone else. If the scripts and acting had been better than they were, that would be one thing, but they were not. Also going from Kikuchi to Faulconer or whoever else is silly to me.

Brice Armstrong had a great voice and could be a good narrator, just not for DB.

Consistency is not inherently good. The replacement score sucked. No reason to double down on a bad idea just to be consistent.

The DBZ audience aren't drawn to the music. That's not why they are going to tune in.

How the hell is Armstrong not a good narrator for DB? He has the perfect avuncular voice you need for a story like DB. It's very much a Joji Yanami-esque vibe.

you say it was a bad idea and sucked yet you still have fans that watched it back then continue to praise it to this day and always ask if its in the box sets funi releases.

One word: Nostalgia.

[MasenkoHA]

They respected what they were given, which was an altered version of a Japanese cartoon. I don't know why it needs to be any deeper than that. You do the job that's in front of you.

My point is that the job itself was disrespectful to begin with.

Not saying they're bad people, and yes, they just did what they were hired to do (the blame lies with Gen Fukunaga and Barry Watson (someone correct me if I'm wrong there) ); but the quote I responded to claimed that they "respected" the series, and that claim just feels hollow to me since they ultimately participated in replacing the original score, which feels like the exact opposite of "respectful".

Yes. Fukunaga is the one that said Funimation made the decision to use a replacement score so they could make royalties for every second it’s heard.

And Watson seemed to be the main creative force in charge from the Dragon Baaaalll gotta find that Dragooon Ballll days to the Ultimate Uncut days. And based on interviews I’ve read with Menza and Johnson the main guy responsible for the dub’s musical direction and tone

Consistency is not inherently good. The replacement score sucked. No reason to double down on a bad idea just to be consistent.

The DBZ audience aren't drawn to the music. That's not why they are going to tune in.

How the hell is Armstrong not a good narrator for DB? He has the perfect avuncular voice you need for a story like DB. It's very much a Joji Yanami-esque vibe.

you say it was a bad idea and sucked yet you still have fans that watched it back then continue to praise it to this day and always ask if its in the box sets funi releases.

One word: Nostalgia.

Quite. This is why franchises like Pokemon and Power Rangers have devoted adult fans. It’s not because they’re so good they transcend their intended age demo. People just need to learn to embrace their nostalgic biases instead of doing mental gymnastics that “this crappy thing you liked as a child is legitimately great”

[Hulk10]

They had very bad translations for the show, and they brought in actors with no experience because it was too expensive to keep outsourcing the voices to Canada.

I feel like this claim needs to die it was not too expensive. The whole reason Funimation sought out outsourcing in Canada was because it was cheap. By Ian Corlett’s own admission Ocean got hired and in fact gets hired a lot because they can do it cheaper than most studios. Funimation could always afford to use Ocean they just wanted to relocate everything to Texas to save time and money. But corporate greed we want to save some extra dollars =/= it’s too expensive if we don’t.

As far as bad translations go. I’m sure the English in the translations wasn’t the best but I’m not sure we can go that far in blaming it on the dub’s overall writing quality. Even after getting Simmons on hand to do the translations around 2000 didn’t improve the over all faithfulness to the scripts. It was probably about the same ratio of “sometimes the dialog will be dead on, sometimes it will be in the ball park but still altered and sometimes *shrug*And if the pre-2000 scripts were completely off that would lead believability to the idea the translations were unusable but no there was plenty of times even back then when the english dialog is close enough to the Japanese dialog.

I feel that the original dub gets too much of a bad rap.

Does it though? Does it though?

https://youtu.be/t7wyidD6mUk

https://youtu.be/EdGa-2BSFiI

https://youtu.be/6rxeCPBUx7g

https://youtu.be/zmhbMDFSveQ


It it any surprise the 2001 dub for the original Dragon Ball dub is seen as such an improvement? It’s bad but its run of the mill early 2000s kids tv dubbed anime bad like Pokemon or Digimon or Yu-gi-oh .

I feel that the Funimation DBZ gets a bad rap.

[MasenkoHA]

They had very bad translations for the show, and they brought in actors with no experience because it was too expensive to keep outsourcing the voices to Canada.

I feel like this claim needs to die it was not too expensive. The whole reason Funimation sought out outsourcing in Canada was because it was cheap. By Ian Corlett’s own admission Ocean got hired and in fact gets hired a lot because they can do it cheaper than most studios. Funimation could always afford to use Ocean they just wanted to relocate everything to Texas to save time and money. But corporate greed we want to save some extra dollars =/= it’s too expensive if we don’t.

As far as bad translations go. I’m sure the English in the translations wasn’t the best but I’m not sure we can go that far in blaming it on the dub’s overall writing quality. Even after getting Simmons on hand to do the translations around 2000 didn’t improve the over all faithfulness to the scripts. It was probably about the same ratio of “sometimes the dialog will be dead on, sometimes it will be in the ball park but still altered and sometimes *shrug*And if the pre-2000 scripts were completely off that would lead believability to the idea the translations were unusable but no there was plenty of times even back then when the english dialog is close enough to the Japanese dialog.

I feel that the original dub gets too much of a bad rap.

Does it though? Does it though?

https://youtu.be/t7wyidD6mUk

https://youtu.be/EdGa-2BSFiI

https://youtu.be/6rxeCPBUx7g

https://youtu.be/zmhbMDFSveQ


It it any surprise the 2001 dub for the original Dragon Ball dub is seen as such an improvement? It’s bad but its run of the mill early 2000s kids tv dubbed anime bad like Pokemon or Digimon or Yu-gi-oh .

I feel that the Funimation DBZ gets a bad rap.

It gets the rap it deserves.


If anything people are way to lenient on it

[WittyUsername]

The 23rd Budokai arc is the probably the weakest portion of the dub, which is odd, because you’d think it’d be the opposite. That’s not to say the stuff that came before is great, but it’s more consistent. Even for early 2000s FUNimation, the 23rd Budokai episodes just feel off.

[Hulk10]

I feel like this claim needs to die it was not too expensive. The whole reason Funimation sought out outsourcing in Canada was because it was cheap. By Ian Corlett’s own admission Ocean got hired and in fact gets hired a lot because they can do it cheaper than most studios. Funimation could always afford to use Ocean they just wanted to relocate everything to Texas to save time and money. But corporate greed we want to save some extra dollars =/= it’s too expensive if we don’t.

As far as bad translations go. I’m sure the English in the translations wasn’t the best but I’m not sure we can go that far in blaming it on the dub’s overall writing quality. Even after getting Simmons on hand to do the translations around 2000 didn’t improve the over all faithfulness to the scripts. It was probably about the same ratio of “sometimes the dialog will be dead on, sometimes it will be in the ball park but still altered and sometimes *shrug*And if the pre-2000 scripts were completely off that would lead believability to the idea the translations were unusable but no there was plenty of times even back then when the english dialog is close enough to the Japanese dialog.




Does it though? Does it though?

https://youtu.be/t7wyidD6mUk

https://youtu.be/EdGa-2BSFiI

https://youtu.be/6rxeCPBUx7g

https://youtu.be/zmhbMDFSveQ


It it any surprise the 2001 dub for the original Dragon Ball dub is seen as such an improvement? It’s bad but its run of the mill early 2000s kids tv dubbed anime bad like Pokemon or Digimon or Yu-gi-oh .

I feel that the Funimation DBZ gets a bad rap.

It gets the rap it deserves.


If anything people are way to lenient on it

If you say so.. *shrugs*

[jjgp1112]

They respected what they were given, which was an altered version of a Japanese cartoon. I don't know why it needs to be any deeper than that. You do the job that's in front of you.

My point is that the job itself was disrespectful to begin with.

Not saying they're bad people, and yes, they just did what they were hired to do (the blame lies with Gen Fukunaga and Barry Watson (someone correct me if I'm wrong there) ); but the quote I responded to claimed that they "respected" the series, and that claim just feels hollow to me since they ultimately participated in replacing the original score, which feels like the exact opposite of "respectful".

It's a job for what's ultimately just a cartoon that they don't actually have any ownership of. An up and coming musician with bills to pay would be a fool to turn it down if they worked for the company, even if they were a fan.

[MyVisionity]

Regardless if they are die hard fans, it's a job. If you are offered the job to rescore a show, take the paycheck. They could be the biggest die hard DB fans but but they also have bills to pay and a career they wish to pursue.

So sell your soul for a paycheck? To Hell with the future of Dragon Ball when you got bills to pay? Survival and success are understandably important, but I don't think that means you throw away your values and belief system so casually.

If it's actually the biggest die hard DB fans, then you do whatever is possible to find another way forward. Unless of course your life is truly at stake.

[jjgp1112]

Regardless if they are die hard fans, it's a job. If you are offered the job to rescore a show, take the paycheck. They could be the biggest die hard DB fans but but they also have bills to pay and a career they wish to pursue.

So sell your soul for a paycheck? To Hell with the future of Dragon Ball when you got bills to pay? Survival and success are understandably important, but I don't think that means you throw away your values and belief system so casually.

If it's actually the biggest did hard DB fans, then you do whatever is possible to find another way forward. Unless of course your life is truly at stake.

Sell your soul? It's fucking DRAGON BALL

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

They had very bad translations for the show, and they brought in actors with no experience because it was too expensive to keep outsourcing the voices to Canada.

I feel like this claim needs to die it was not too expensive. The whole reason Funimation sought out outsourcing in Canada was because it was cheap. By Ian Corlett’s own admission Ocean got hired and in fact gets hired a lot because they can do it cheaper than most studios. Funimation could always afford to use Ocean they just wanted to relocate everything to Texas to save time and money. But corporate greed we want to save some extra dollars =/= it’s too expensive if we don’t.

As far as bad translations go. I’m sure the English in the translations wasn’t the best but I’m not sure we can go that far in blaming it on the dub’s overall writing quality. Even after getting Simmons on hand to do the translations around 2000 didn’t improve the over all faithfulness to the scripts. It was probably about the same ratio of “sometimes the dialog will be dead on, sometimes it will be in the ball park but still altered and sometimes *shrug*And if the pre-2000 scripts were completely off that would lead believability to the idea the translations were unusable but no there was plenty of times even back then when the english dialog is close enough to the Japanese dialog.

I feel that the original dub gets too much of a bad rap.

Does it though? Does it though?

https://youtu.be/t7wyidD6mUk

https://youtu.be/EdGa-2BSFiI

https://youtu.be/6rxeCPBUx7g

https://youtu.be/zmhbMDFSveQ


It it any surprise the 2001 dub for the original Dragon Ball dub is seen as such an improvement? It’s bad but its run of the mill early 2000s kids tv dubbed anime bad like Pokemon or Digimon or Yu-gi-oh .

I feel that the Funimation DBZ gets a bad rap.

I mean, it was undeniably a garbage product of a time back in the late '90s/early 2000's when FUNi wasn't anywhere near where they've been over the last decade. The Z dub (Season 3 especially) was done on the cheap in every respect and the early days show how rough it was starting out after moving in house post Saban and Ocean. Many of the long time staff and veteran actors especially Chris Sabat will admit that they weren't too good voice wise back in 1999, it took quite a few years for them to really grow into the characters and a lot of shaking up in the script/production department over time before becoming one of the biggest dub production houses as they are now and have been the last ten plus years.

[Shaddy]

Regardless if they are die hard fans, it's a job. If you are offered the job to rescore a show, take the paycheck. They could be the biggest die hard DB fans but but they also have bills to pay and a career they wish to pursue.

So sell your soul for a paycheck? To Hell with the future of Dragon Ball when you got bills to pay? Survival and success are understandably important, but I don't think that means you throw away your values and belief system so casually.

If it's actually the biggest did hard DB fans, then you do whatever is possible to find another way forward. Unless of course your life is truly at stake.

Sell your soul? It's fucking DRAGON BALL

This thread just gets weirder and weirder.

[MasenkoHA]

Regardless if they are die hard fans, it's a job. If you are offered the job to rescore a show, take the paycheck. They could be the biggest die hard DB fans but but they also have bills to pay and a career they wish to pursue.

So sell your soul for a paycheck? To Hell with the future of Dragon Ball when you got bills to pay? Survival and success are understandably important, but I don't think that means you throw away your values and belief system so casually.

If it's actually the biggest did hard DB fans, then you do whatever is possible to find another way forward. Unless of course your life is truly at stake.

You are precious.


Also weren’t you just pro-replacement music for the sake of replacement music?

[MyVisionity]

It's an expression. Yeah it's not murder or anything, but the point is that you would be compromising yourself and the things you value and cherish for the sake of a job. That's not something to take lightly at all.

Also weren’t you just pro-replacement music for the sake of replacement music?

That was about staying true to one direction. This is about staying true to another.

[Hulk10]

I feel like this claim needs to die it was not too expensive. The whole reason Funimation sought out outsourcing in Canada was because it was cheap. By Ian Corlett’s own admission Ocean got hired and in fact gets hired a lot because they can do it cheaper than most studios. Funimation could always afford to use Ocean they just wanted to relocate everything to Texas to save time and money. But corporate greed we want to save some extra dollars =/= it’s too expensive if we don’t.

As far as bad translations go. I’m sure the English in the translations wasn’t the best but I’m not sure we can go that far in blaming it on the dub’s overall writing quality. Even after getting Simmons on hand to do the translations around 2000 didn’t improve the over all faithfulness to the scripts. It was probably about the same ratio of “sometimes the dialog will be dead on, sometimes it will be in the ball park but still altered and sometimes *shrug*And if the pre-2000 scripts were completely off that would lead believability to the idea the translations were unusable but no there was plenty of times even back then when the english dialog is close enough to the Japanese dialog.




Does it though? Does it though?

https://youtu.be/t7wyidD6mUk

https://youtu.be/EdGa-2BSFiI

https://youtu.be/6rxeCPBUx7g

https://youtu.be/zmhbMDFSveQ


It it any surprise the 2001 dub for the original Dragon Ball dub is seen as such an improvement? It’s bad but its run of the mill early 2000s kids tv dubbed anime bad like Pokemon or Digimon or Yu-gi-oh .

I feel that the Funimation DBZ gets a bad rap.

I mean, it was undeniably a garbage product of a time back in the late '90s/early 2000's when FUNi wasn't anywhere near where they've been over the last decade. The Z dub (Season 3 especially) was done on the cheap in every respect and the early days show how rough it was starting out after moving in house post Saban and Ocean. Many of the long time staff and veteran actors especially Chris Sabat will admit that they weren't too good voice wise back in 1999, it took quite a few years for them to really grow into the characters and a lot of shaking up in the script/production department over time before becoming one of the biggest dub production houses as they are now and have been the last ten plus years.

I'd say the idea that Z dub is garbage is debatable.

[Shaddy]

It's an expression. Yeah it's not murder or anything, but the point is that you would be compromising yourself and the things you value and cherish for the sake of a job. That's not something to take lightly at all.

That's literally what work is, dude. Otherwise we wouldn't demand money for it.

[ABED]

Regardless if they are die hard fans, it's a job. If you are offered the job to rescore a show, take the paycheck. They could be the biggest die hard DB fans but but they also have bills to pay and a career they wish to pursue.

So sell your soul for a paycheck? To Hell with the future of Dragon Ball when you got bills to pay? Survival and success are understandably important, but I don't think that means you throw away your values and belief system so casually.

If it's actually the biggest did hard DB fans, then you do whatever is possible to find another way forward. Unless of course your life is truly at stake.

Sell your soul? It's fucking DRAGON BALL

How is that selling your soul? It's not a matter of integrity. No principles are being compromised, or at least, you need to decide on your hierarchy of values. I don't think changing the music for a dub compromises anything so important, especially noways where there's easy access to the original. But even in the late 90's when that wasn't the case, I don't think it's a matter of personal integrity. It's just a TV show. It's not a moral compromise.

That's literally what work is, dude. Otherwise we wouldn't demand money for it.

That's not what work is and that's not why we demand money for it.

[MyVisionity]

How is that selling your soul? It's not a matter of integrity. No principles are being compromised, or at least, you need to decide on your hierarchy of values. I don't think changing the music for a dub compromises anything so important, especially noways where there's easy access to the original. But even in the late 90's when that wasn't the case, I don't think it's a matter of personal integrity. It's just a TV show. It's not a moral compromise.

When you become a fan of something, your personal morals and principles become inextricably linked to whatever that thing is. To compromise the standards of a show in that way means that you would be compromising your own personal standards and integrity. The person hired to do a replacement score would be messing with not only the integrity of the series itself, but also with the legacy that the dub leaves behind as well as the audiences who will consume it. That sort of thing should make a person stop and question what kind of choice they would be making.