Daima and its implications for the Battle of the Gods

[Vegeta th3 4th]

I'm expecting them to just not address why Gokuu did not use Super Saiyan 4 during the Beers, Golden Freeza, Universe 6, Zamasu and Tournament of Power, and Broli conflicts, but he'll use it against Black Freeza or whoever the next foe he faces is.

The rights issue may prevent the manga's team from using anything from Daima. Shuaisha owns the manga rights, while Capsule Corp. Tokyo owns the anime AND game rights.

[BernardoCairo]

They have two options here. One is to provide an actual explanation in the next episode (just tie the form to the Demon Realm or something, it’s not that difficult). The other is to establish this as a separate timeline, which I wouldn’t mind at all.

[BernardoCairo]

The rights issue may prevent the manga's team from using anything from Daima. Shuaisha owns the manga rights, while Capsule Corp. Tokyo owns the anime AND game rights.

That’s right. But as far as we know, Akio can’t do much without Shueisha’s approval. Otherwise, the Dragon Ball Super anime would have already returned by now.

[Yuji]

They have two options here. One is to provide an actual explanation in the next episode (just tie the form to the Demon Realm or something, it’s not that difficult). The other is to establish this as a separate timeline, which I wouldn’t mind at all.

Or they can keep it vague and do neither

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Akio can’t do much without Shueisha’s approval. Otherwise, the Dragon Ball Super anime would have already returned by now.

Exactly, which is why I think future series and maybe even movies will continue from where Daima leaves off next week, instead of waiting for Shueisha to approve Super related content. With Ssj4 being reintroduced, it's only a matter of time before the likes of Baby and the Shadow Dragons are reintroduced as well.

[JulieYBM]

I'm expecting them to just not address why Gokuu did not use Super Saiyan 4 during the Beers, Golden Freeza, Universe 6, Zamasu and Tournament of Power, and Broli conflicts, but he'll use it against Black Freeza or whoever the next foe he faces is.

The rights issue may prevent the manga's team from using anything from Daima. Shuaisha owns the manga rights, while Capsule Corp. Tokyo owns the anime AND game rights.

Then they'll come up with some other post-Broli story. I still expect them to just not mention it.

[SupremeKai25]

They have two options here. One is to provide an actual explanation in the next episode (just tie the form to the Demon Realm or something, it’s not that difficult). The other is to establish this as a separate timeline, which I wouldn’t mind at all.

The third option, which is the one Toriyama's always taken, is to leave it as it is because he doesn't care about plot holes and retcons.

[BernardoCairo]

Exactly, which is why I think future series and maybe even movies will continue from where Daima leaves off next week, instead of waiting for Shueisha to approve Super related content. With Ssj4 being reintroduced, it's only a matter of time before the likes of Baby and the Shadow Dragons are reintroduced as well.

I don't think Akio would want to throw away the Dragon Ball Super brand. He continued working on it even after 2018 and understands its popularity. He knows fans are eager for Ultra Instinct's return. It's only a matter of time before he gets what he wants.

The third option, which is the one Toriyama's always taken, is to leave it as it is because he doesn't care about plot holes and retcons.

You'd be surprised at how few "plot holes" and retcons he allowed before the Super era. There were some inconsistencies, bure. But he always had an immediate explanation for anything.
And honestly, I wouldn't consider the Daima situation a "plot hole" per say.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

Battle of Gods may not work as a follow up to Daima, but it does work if you watch it before (although some timeline issues still occur).

I don't think Akio would want to throw away the Dragon Ball Super brand. He continued working on it even after 2018 and understands its popularity. He knows fans are eager for Ultra Instinct's return. It's only a matter of time before he gets what he wants.

I agree with you, but it's not up to him. One of the reasons he had Daima made was because they just wouldn't allow more Super content to be animated. They seem to want it manga exclusive for whatever reason. Super has generally been a major disappointment for me, so despite having issues with Daima, I'd take a continuation of that over the other any day.

[JulieYBM]

Trying to make sense of a timeline is honestly pointless because Toriyama has never been meticulous about these things. We're trying to apply the anal standards that US franchises keep for their series to a series mostly led by a guy who just does not care. And you know what? That's fine. That's not the major issue: the major issue is that the work itself is flawed, in large part because of said creator's own approach to storytelling, but nevertheless flawed on levels more important than "Why didn't Gokuu use Super Saiyan 4 against Beers?!"

[SupremeKai25]

You'd be surprised at how few "plot holes" and retcons he allowed before the Super era. There were some inconsistencies, bure. But he always had an immediate explanation for anything.
And honestly, I wouldn't consider the Daima situation a "plot hole" per say.

Toriyama literally forgot about an entire main character in the original series.

No, I don't think Toriyama gave a shit about continuity.

Now this forum is saying that Super will be "retconned" and replaced with Daima... you've got it all wrong, Daima is a prequel to Super...

Also, got to love how people were constantly complaining about Super never getting to the End of Z, and now that it IS getting very close to the End of Z, this forum wants Super to be replaced and everything to start over from Daima, which takes place years before the End of Z.

[Cybersai]

The difference is Toriyama had just been working on Super and its stories continuously from 2013 to the recent Super Hero movie with Beast Gohan and Cell max.

Daima was in pre-production for at least 2 years so they were working on it at roughly the same time. Toriyama didn't suddenly "forget" that SSJ4 wasn't in Super, c'mon now.

[BernardoCairo]

Now this forum is saying that Super will be "retconned" and replaced with Daima... you've got it all wrong, Daima is a prequel to Super...

I think no one said that seriously.

[SupremeKai25]

It's fairly obvious that

1) Super is not going anywhere (why Daima would replace Super? That makes no sense and is just hate bias).

2) SSJ4 will be used by Broly in a future Super arc. So much money to be made with Canon SSJ4 Broly.

[SupremeKai25]

Akio can’t do much without Shueisha’s approval. Otherwise, the Dragon Ball Super anime would have already returned by now.

Exactly, which is why I think future series and maybe even movies will continue from where Daima leaves off next week, instead of waiting for Shueisha to approve Super related content. With Ssj4 being reintroduced, it's only a matter of time before the likes of Baby and the Shadow Dragons are reintroduced as well.

So you were complaining that DBS is still stuck in the midquel hell... but Super is actually getting very close to the End of Z. It's almost there, the Super Hero arc is very, very close to it. Now you're suggesting to replace Super with Daima, which is Canonically years before Super Hero.

Make it make sense?

[Vegeta th3 4th]

So you were complaining that DBS is still stuck in the midquel hell... but Super is actually getting very close to the End of Z. It's almost there, the Super Hero arc is very, very close to it. Now you're suggesting to replace Super with Daima, which is Canonically years before Super Hero.

If Super is stuck in contract hell between the two companies, then there's a chance (how high is up for debate) that a new series/movies picks up form where Daima leaves off. If the staff at Toei and CCT can't animate Super, they're not just going to sit around without any DB projects. In fact, Daima was green lit as a result of this rights issue. Super's issue isn't just that it's stuck before End of Z, it's flat out not good. Daima may be flawed, but its issues can be ironed out in future projects. Super however is a lost cause.

[Hugo Boss]

Trying to make sense of a timeline is honestly pointless because Toriyama has never been meticulous about these things. We're trying to apply the anal standards that US franchises keep for their series to a series mostly led by a guy who just does not care. And you know what? That's fine. That's not the major issue: the major issue is that the work itself is flawed, in large part because of said creator's own approach to storytelling, but nevertheless flawed on levels more important than "Why didn't Gokuu use Super Saiyan 4 against Beers?!"

I totally get that Toriyama has a history of forgetting details, especially things from over a decade ago. Stuff like Shin and Kibito being defused earlier than expected or Vegeta not having SS3 in BoG. Those feel like oversights rather than intentional choices. But when it comes to SS4 Goku in Daima, I have a hard time believing he doesn’t care. It’s one of the most iconic aspects of the series, a form that defines Daima’s identity in a way that sets it apart from other Dragon Ball entries. Even if he’s not meticulous about timelines, I think he was fully aware of SS4’s importance when crafting the story.

[SupremeKai25]

So you were complaining that DBS is still stuck in the midquel hell... but Super is actually getting very close to the End of Z. It's almost there, the Super Hero arc is very, very close to it. Now you're suggesting to replace Super with Daima, which is Canonically years before Super Hero.

If Super is stuck in contract hell between the two companies, then there's a chance (how high is up for debate) that a new series/movies picks up form where Daima leaves off. If the staff at Toei and CCT can't animate Super, they're not just going to sit around without any DB projects. In fact, Daima was green lit as a result of this rights issue. Super's issue isn't just that it's stuck before End of Z, it's flat out not good. Daima may be flawed, but its issues can be ironed out in future projects. Super however is a lost cause.

If Toei absolutely CANNOT touch the manga arcs (massive "if"), that doesn't mean they cannot touch the Super timeline.

They could make a movie about Goku vs. Beerus rematch or a second Tournament of Power or whatever. Stuff in the Super timeline that has not been touched upon by the manga, yet.

[Vegeta th3 4th]

If Toei absolutely CANNOT touch the manga arcs (massive "if"), that doesn't mean they cannot touch the Super timeline.

They could make a movie about Goku vs. Beerus rematch or a second Tournament of Power or whatever. Stuff in the Super timeline that has not been touched upon by the manga, yet.

Everything pre-Daima was a collaboration between Toei and Shuiesha, while Daima was the first project Toei did not work on with Shuiesha. Toei may not have legal access to anything established in Super.

[BernardoCairo]

They could make a movie about Goku vs. Beerus rematch or a second Tournament of Power or whatever. Stuff in the Super timeline that has not been touched upon by the manga, yet.

Yeah, that would just make everything more confusing. Imagine Toyotaro and Toei both writing completely different arcs, but all under the same Dragon Ball Super brand. It’d be a mess trying to follow the storylines.