Scenes that the Anime did better than the Manga

Shenron · Post by **Shenron** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:49 pm

True, the Anime has more scenes in the Buu saga then Toriyama's manga..Maybe Toriyama decided to put more scenes in to make the Buu saga more complete. For example the Vegetto vs. Buu, Majin vegeta vs Goku, The anime ACTUALLY showing the fight with Gotenks and Fat buu instead of going off to get beat off panel like Gotenks did in the manga.

I doub that Toriyama had time to tell Toei what they were supposed to do with the TV series.
I can hardly imagine him saying : "Hey guys, I did'nt have enough time to make a cool fight between Goku and Vegeta, could you make something better ?".

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:17 pm

Well, according to this site, Toriyama had some involvemen with some filler... what filler, we don't know. So maybe some Buu saga filler was his idea. The way filler confuses a few things in the Buu saga ... it's hard to say anything beyond that.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:03 pm

Likely due to my re-watching some of them, this thread is reminding me of scenes "The Lord of the Rings" movies did better than the books. (ie. Boromir's last stand/redemption)

Wit DBZ, though it was kind of corny, I liked Saiyaman's adventures. They made me laugh.

Smooth Criminal · Post by **Smooth Criminal** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:32 pm

Goku and Majin Vegeta clashing knees? You guys thought that was GOOD?

The entirety of the Majin Buu saga was just unbearable in the anime. (With the exception of Goku VS. Kid Buu) It made something already pretty lame into something that made me want to gouge my eyes out at points. Cutaway filler scenes every 5 minutes involving Mr. Satan/Kame House/Some other insignificant character = ...

ssorcd · Post by **ssorcd** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:56 pm

Smooth Criminal wrote:Goku and Majin Vegeta clashing knees? You guys thought that was GOOD?

The entirety of the Majin Buu saga was just unbearable in the anime. (With the exception of Goku VS. Kid Buu) It made something already pretty lame into something that made me want to gouge my eyes out at points. Cutaway filler scenes every 5 minutes involving Mr. Satan/Kame House/Some other insignificant character = ...

Those sort of interruptions weren't exclusive to the Buu saga if I recall correctly. The Frieza fight would be interrupted by something like Bulma bumbling around Namek and the Cell fight would be interrupted by shots of Mr. Satan and his stooges.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:39 am

I liked most all of the Buu saga before everyone left the tournament and after Goku went back to the afterlife. The whole Babidi spaceship sequence, Goku vs. Vegeta, Goku vs. Fat Buu...not so much.

testing223 · Post by **testing223** » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:27 am

Contra Deus wrote:From what I understand, Toriyama was writing on burn-out during the Buu Saga.

I think that was obvious, since the last half of the buu saga has no characters or plots from the first half. Videl, Goten, Trunks, and even Gohan slowly vanish.

In fact it's like a totally different storyline takes over as soon as they leave the budokai.

For that matter, another storyline starts after buu turns evil.

It's almost as if he didn't have a plan and someone else was dictating plot points.

Smooth Criminal · Post by **Smooth Criminal** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:50 am

He's stated on numerous occasions that he came up with the story as he went. Toriyama never planned anything, which is probably both a strength and weakness.

This would make a good Podcast topic.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:02 am

Smooth Criminal wrote:He's stated on numerous occasions that he came up with the story as he went. Toriyama never planned anything, which is probably both a strength and weakness.

This would make a good Podcast topic.

We actually mention it from time to time when the issue arises, typically during manga reviews. You'll hear a little bit more of it during the next episode when we discuss volume 10.

I've said time and time again that Toriyama's lack of direction is what I admire, because he was able to take it in such a great direction and with (overall) such finesse. That's what his talent is. Of course, how much we owe to the editors and folks like Nakatsuru is something we may never know...

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:03 am

Who is "Nakatsuru"?

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:06 am

BrollysKin wrote:Who is "Nakatsuru"?

Wasn't that Toriyama's assistant? The guy he confused artwork with...or am I thinking of someone else?

Post by **VegettoEX** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:06 am

BrollysKin wrote:Who is "Nakatsuru"?

Toriyama's right-hand-man, so to speak. He's really the one that does the majority of "official artwork". We talk a bit about him in the tidbit all about Bardock.

SatoSky · Post by **SatoSky** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:07 am

I believe Nakatsuru is the man who originally came up with the SSJ4 design. Anybody care to validate that, or rip me a new one?

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:07 am

VegettoEX wrote:
BrollysKin wrote:Who is "Nakatsuru"?
Toriyama's right-hand-man, so to speak. He's really the one that does the majority of "official artwork". We talk a bit about him in the tidbit all about Bardock.

lol...Just as I post I get my answer. Guess I was right.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:48 am

SatoSky wrote:I believe Nakatsuru is the man who originally came up with the SSJ4 design. Anybody care to validate that, or rip me a new one?

I think you're right because in Toriyama's little blurb about the GT Dragon Box, he basically said "I didn't design, SSj4, though, that was Nakatsuru-kun".

SatoSky · Post by **SatoSky** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:12 am

The Lecherous Muten Roshi wrote:
SatoSky wrote:I believe Nakatsuru is the man who originally came up with the SSJ4 design. Anybody care to validate that, or rip me a new one?
I think you're right because in Toriyama's little blurb about the GT Dragon Box, he basically said "I didn't design, SSj4, though, that was Nakatsuru-kun".

Sweet, now I don't have to worry about walking funny for a few days.

testing223 · Post by **testing223** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:10 pm

Smooth Criminal wrote:He's stated on numerous occasions that he came up with the story as he went. Toriyama never planned anything, which is probably both a strength and weakness.

Definitely a weakness in the buu saga. The random, almost contradictory stuff was pretty poor in parts.

And he wasn't all random; with Freeza and Cell, there was an overarching plot point. Goku becoming the SUper Saiyan, Gohan becoming his successor...but Buu didn't have any of that, in fact it has no narrative at all as far as I can see.

I'd really like to know what editorial decisions were made and what Toriyama's original storyline was. Clearly it was supposed to be teen Gohan's secret-identity adventures. in high school. I mean Erasaa and Sharpner were prominently featured in the group shots for a while.

Smooth Criminal · Post by **Smooth Criminal** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:06 pm

testing223 wrote:
Smooth Criminal wrote:He's stated on numerous occasions that he came up with the story as he went. Toriyama never planned anything, which is probably both a strength and weakness.
Definitely a weakness in the buu saga. The random, almost contradictory stuff was pretty poor in parts.

And he wasn't all random; with Freeza and Cell, there was an overarching plot point. Goku becoming the SUper Saiyan, Gohan becoming his successor...but Buu didn't have any of that, in fact it has no narrative at all as far as I can see.

I'd really like to know what editorial decisions were made and what Toriyama's original storyline was. Clearly it was supposed to be teen Gohan's secret-identity adventures. in high school. I mean Erasaa and Sharpner were prominently featured in the group shots for a while.

I think fan feedback was negative during the Great Saiyaman stuff, so Toriyama was forced to write Goku back into the story somehow. After that, things just got more and more confusing.

I think you're right in the sense that he planned absolutely NOTHING in this saga. The story was all over the place. Twists basically at every corner, and completely out of the blue as well. I mean, the whole thing with Gohan and the Elder Kai's unlocking technique was basically all a huge waste of time. I honestly don't think he intentionally built that up just to throw it out. And the whole Super Saiyajin 3 thing.... I seriously doubt that it even existed in Toriyama's mind while Goku and Majin Vegeta were going at it. It was probably something he came up with literally right before he drew the chapter. I mean, come on, it came completely out of the blue. "Hai guyz guess what I learned in the afterlife!! Oh... and ... I didn't want to use it on you Vegeta because... um, ... it would hurt your pride...? Yeah, that sounds right."

A lot of characters are important in one part, then completely forgotten by the end.

I think this might be a textbook example of how the author planned to take the story in one direction, but ended up going in another.

Shin Moonwalker · Post by **Shin Moonwalker** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 3:00 pm

I just loved the Buu saga in the manga.
Finally, it was funny again, and the ennemy wasn't defeated after only one long fight, but there were so many opportunities to kill him (Vegeto, Gotenks, Mystic Gohan...).
Well, I simply loved it

Especially since at first I thought the manga ended with Cell (because of the first Budokai), and I was surprised to see there was more.

But I'm sure the anime, as always, slowed things down and kinda ruined the fun parts...

Contra Deus · Post by **Contra Deus** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:14 pm

Yeah, you know, Goku went on-and-on about how he was going to finish the fight with Majin Vegeta as quickly as possible. Course', if that were really the case, he would've gone SSJ3 and Vegeta would've dropped dead of a stroke right there.

And then, even more ludicrous, is that Goku supposedly had the power to destroy Fat Buu when he first fought him as an SSJ3, but decided not to just so he could give Goten and Trunks an opportunity to save the world? I know Goku may be retarded, but he's not that retarded. Although...

That right there is proof that Toriyama was making shit up as he went along.

Kanzenshuu

Scenes that the Anime did better than the Manga

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