DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Hugo Boss wrote:Did Vegeta really say Goku surpassed Super Saiyajin God?
I guess Goku is said to have surpassed SSG because he absorbed its power & made it his own, making SSG useless.
Dragon Ball Heroes also describes base Goku with SSG power from FnF as "a Saiyan who surpassed God".
I think the way to look at the stage Goku (and later Vegeta) achieve, by absorbing the power and abilities of the particular Super Saiya-jin God stage, officially called Saiya-jin beyond God, utterly makes actually physically transforming into Super Saiya-jin God (through the ritual or any other way). If the Saiya-jin is gifted enough to make that power and those abilities his own after such a short time using the SSJG stage, as Goku and Vegeta are, actually transforming into the stage physically, if they can, doesn't present any advantages.
Basically, in the Saiya-jin beyond God stage Goku and Vegeta are able to use the exact same power and abilities (even making others unable to sense their godly Ki) the SSJG particular stage provides.
What I AM much more hyped about is to see just when (this one is pretty easy, at some point between BoG and Fukkatsu no F, in the Movies' version of events, and in the next, incoming episodes), why and how Goku and Vegeta decide/are able to achieve or develop a further stage, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin. I have my theories on how the SSJGSSJ stage is an advantage and a power-up when compared to both SSJG and Saiya-jin beyond God, and I've stated them here before more than once, but I want to see just by how much there is a power increase, and potentially other advantages to the Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin stage. It could also be that, just like Goku "explains" to Freeza in Fukkatsu no F, going Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin is a mere consequence of the fact that the Saiya-jin, who has attained Super Saiya-jin God and Saiya-jin beyond God, had previously attained one or several of the Super Saiya-jin stages, and going SSJGSSJG provides a somewhat equivalent (or not so equivalent) power-up to the Saiya-jin beyond God stage just like any Super Saiya-jin stage powers up the Saiya-jin's base power exponentially, depending on which of the several SSJ stages it is. We need to remember that before Goku first achieved Super Saiya-jin on Namek against Freeza, and was soon followed by the appearances of Mirai no Trunks, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Goten, etc., all of them as Super Saiya-jins, achieving that transformation, even the regular one, was an extremely rare occurrence, which according to what Vegeta was told happened only about every thousand years.
Achieving the first, regular Super Saiya-jin was a feat at the Freeza times, but so many further ones were achieved (Super Saiya-jin Dai Ni Dankai, Super Saiya-jin Dai San Dankai, Super Saiya-jin Full Power, Super Saiya-jin 2, even Super Saiya-jin 3), so by the time Beerus arrives and all of this recent material takes place, whether in the Movies' version of in the retold version within DBSuper, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Trunks, Goten, just to mention the Saiya-jin, have gone through so much and so many transformations and insane power-ups that, in order to have at least a chance to reach, or come close to reach the likes of the most powerful entities the Universe has ever known, far above anything they've encounter before, even all versions of Majin/Super/Kid Buu, further stages of Super Saiya-jin transformations needed to be achieved, although I believe the Super Saiya-jin God, and thus the Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin stages, are much more of a Kaio-Ken-esque power-up than an actual successor to the most powerful Super Saiya-jin stage achieved before (SSJ3), as I believe all of them basically build upon each other; the SSJG and SSJGSSJ stages are achieved through entirely different methods, provide a completely different set of abilities and, overall, happen in entirely different circumstances, but that's just my position on the matter.
rereboy wrote: Because suppressing Ki is completely different from an actual transformation. Ginyu was able to accurately predict Goku's power despite his suppressing, but he couldn't predict Goku's Kaioken because that also works differently from just suppressing Ki. Beerus can also see or guess a person's real power within their current form, but he can't really predict transformations. And arguing that Beerus could even do what Ginyu could regarding judging a fighter doesn't make much sense.
Ginyu, regardless of his power level, which is by now obviously ridiculous, was a gifted and careful martial artist and was able to accurately judge Goku's actual power level in his base form (he had no idea about the Kaio-Ken technique, which hightened Goku's power to insane proportions).
It all comes down to one's ability, regardless of their actual level of power, to evaluate and judge an opponent's strength and abilities martial arts-wise and power level-wise base on one's experience, gift and intelligence. Even Muten Roshi, Karin or Krillin are able to accurately predict just how much of a menace a villain is, and how their power compares to the main guys' strength, throughout DBZ.
Beerus, and obviously Whis, are so much high in the scale of expertise when it comes to martial arts and power that it's pretty much obvious and acceptable that it's rather easy for them to judge someone's Ki, even if they have the ability to suppress it partially or entirely to 0. By the way, I've always believed that if you use some sort of Ki manipulation technique or if you transform into a stage that provides you with a profound power up (Kaio-Ken, any of the Super Saiya-jin stages), it's obvious that there's no way you can suppress your Ki, even if, refraining from using Ki attacks and particular transformations, in one's base form, one has the ability to totally or partially suppress their Ki).
