Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

While immortal, Zamasu most likely doesn't have infinite energy so if they kept beating him down he would degrade further and run out of ki, thereby rendering him inert. Then they could go back and get a seal for him.

Future Zamasu isn't shown anywhere to have gassed out or even huffing, so Goku would have no idea about him having finite energy. Likewise, Zamasu doesn't seem to have finite stamina at all, he was confident that he could kill Super Trunks even though Trunks should beat him in raw power. Not to mention that once he become one with the universe, Zamasu doesn't need to move, because he would be omnipresent.

Goku eating a senzu and using the Mafuba seems to be the most straightforward interpretation to me. Especially since they won't need to de-power Zamasu to seal him.

Super Trunks isn't that far above Zamasu, he's even weaker than SSBlue Goku and Vegeta. By my numbers he's only slightly stronger than Golden Frieza or around the level of Tournament Goku. Zamasu himself being SSBlue level could easily take on Trunks with his immortality as the power gap isn't that big, by numbers it's only a 25% gap.

Also, Zamasu did not spread instantly, so if they kept destroying those clouds he would be stalled. Vegetto could keep him from fusing with the universe and Trunks could go back for the seal.

[Khin]

Super Trunks isn't that far above Zamasu, he's even weaker than SSBlue Goku and Vegeta. By my numbers he's only slightly stronger than Golden Frieza or around the level of Tournament Goku. Zamasu himself being SSBlue level could easily take on Trunks with his immortality as the power gap isn't that big, by numbers it's only a 25% gap.

Also, Zamasu did not spread instantly, so if they kept destroying those clouds he would be stalled. Vegetto could keep him from fusing with the universe and Trunks could go back for the seal.

I fail to see how Super Trunks is weaker than Goku and Vegeta, unless you're referring to enraged versions of them. Goku flat out said that Trunks can give Black a run for his money (Who beats the shit out of Goku and Vegeta prior to that), and several instance showed Trunks to be on the level of Black. And I really don't see how Future Zamasu's stamina is finite, especially when there are several instance where it was shown that Zamasu can't be defeated just by simply beating the shit out of him. That's even the reason why Mafuba was brought back in the first place.

Also. As I said before, Zamasu would still be immortal even before he would become the universe. And your interpretation just over-complicate things. A way more straightforward interpretation would be Goku, who have no idea that they forgot the seal planned to eat a senzu, and use Mafuba against Zamasu. But whatever floats your boat I guess.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Trunks isn't that far above Zamasu, he's even weaker than SSBlue Goku and Vegeta. By my numbers he's only slightly stronger than Golden Frieza or around the level of Tournament Goku. Zamasu himself being SSBlue level could easily take on Trunks with his immortality as the power gap isn't that big, by numbers it's only a 25% gap.

Also, Zamasu did not spread instantly, so if they kept destroying those clouds he would be stalled. Vegetto could keep him from fusing with the universe and Trunks could go back for the seal.

I fail to see how Super Trunks is weaker than Goku and Vegeta, unless you're referring to enraged versions of them. Goku flat out said that Trunks can give Black a run for his money (Who beats the shit out of Goku and Vegeta prior to that), and several instance showed Trunks to be on the level of Black. And I really don't see how Future Zamasu's stamina is finite, especially when there are several instance where it was shown that Zamasu can't be defeated just by simply beating the shit out of him. That's even the reason why Mafuba was brought back in the first place.

Also. As I said before, Zamasu would still be immortal even before he would become the universe. And your interpretation just over-complicate things. A way more straightforward interpretation would be Goku, who have no idea that they forgot the seal planned to eat a senzu, and use Mafuba against Zamasu. But whatever floats your boat I guess.

But that was when he was himself and fully immortal, once he fused with Black he became half-mortal and that was when it became possible to damage him. His body's regeneration capacity was limited and it became possible to at least temporarily disable him by destroying his body. This would provide ample time for someone to rush to the past and bring a seal to the future.

[Khin]

But that was when he was himself and fully immortal, once he fused with Black he became half-mortal and that was when it became possible to damage him. His body's regeneration capacity was limited and it became possible to at least temporarily disable him by destroying his body. This would provide ample time for someone to rush to the past and bring a seal to the future.

Merged Zamasu was half-immortal because of the contradiction between the mortal and immortal body. Future Trunks killed the Black part of Zamasu for good after slicing him in half. Which is why Future Zamasu's face, and not Merged Zamasu was the one shown when he tried to become the universe, since that's the Zamasu that is immortal and survived.

While it's totally possible that Soul Zamasu's consciousness is still Merged Zamasu, his mortal body was obliterated, with the immortal soul the only one remaining.

[TheUltimateNinja]

But that was when he was himself and fully immortal, once he fused with Black he became half-mortal and that was when it became possible to damage him. His body's regeneration capacity was limited and it became possible to at least temporarily disable him by destroying his body. This would provide ample time for someone to rush to the past and bring a seal to the future.

Merged Zamasu was half-immortal because of the contradiction between the mortal and immortal body. Future Trunks killed the Black part of Zamasu for good after slicing him in half. Which is why Future Zamasu's face, and not Merged Zamasu was the one shown when he tried to become the universe, since that's the Zamasu that is immortal and survived.

While it's totally possible that Soul Zamasu's consciousness is still Merged Zamasu, his mortal body was obliterated, with the immortal soul the only one remaining.

The difference is Vegetto could hold him off for quite a while, and if that fails he could just repeatedly seal Zamasu into various containers until someone brings a seal to permanently seal him off.

[Khin]

The difference is Vegetto could hold him off for quite a while, and if that fails he could just repeatedly seal Zamasu into various containers until someone brings a seal to permanently seal him off.

Still, that's not really much of a difference. What I said earlier just seems to be much more straightforward. Also, Soul Zamasu can basically kill everyone in an instant and destroy the time machine as he's becoming omnipresent, so Vegetto holding off for quite a while doesn't just seem right unless you think they're willing to let everyone die. But as I said, whatever floats your boat.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The difference is Vegetto could hold him off for quite a while, and if that fails he could just repeatedly seal Zamasu into various containers until someone brings a seal to permanently seal him off.

Still, that's not really much of a difference. What I said earlier just seems to be much more straightforward. Also, Soul Zamasu can basically kill everyone in an instant and destroy the time machine as he's becoming omnipresent, so Vegetto holding off for quite a while doesn't just seem right unless you think they're willing to let everyone die. But as I said, whatever floats your boat.

Vegetto could prevent Zamasu from killing everybody by sealing him before he gets the chance. Goku would be unable to do so as he'd be totally exhausted and wouldn't have the stamina to do it.

[Khin]

Vegetto could prevent Zamasu from killing everybody by sealing him before he gets the chance. Goku would be unable to do so as he'd be totally exhausted and wouldn't have the stamina to do it.

You're really just over-complicating the whole issue. Goku implied that if he eats a senzu they might win. Whatever that actually means, it can be interpreted that Goku planned to use Mafuba against Soul Zamasu. Anyway, why would Goku be exhausted when he's supposed to eat a senzu first ?

The main point here is not about which one of the two will work, it's that Goku have a trick up his sleeve to defeat Soul Zamasu. The whole thing is incredibly vague so it can be interpreted in many ways. As I said before, I just prefer a much more straightforward interpretation rather than an overly-complicated one.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Vegetto could prevent Zamasu from killing everybody by sealing him before he gets the chance. Goku would be unable to do so as he'd be totally exhausted and wouldn't have the stamina to do it.

You're really just over-complicating the whole issue. Goku implied that if he eats a senzu they might win. Whatever that actually means, it can be interpreted that Goku planned to use Mafuba against Soul Zamasu. Anyway, why would Goku be exhausted when he's supposed to eat a senzu first ?

The main point here is not about which one of the two will work, it's that Goku have a trick up his sleeve to defeat Soul Zamasu. The whole thing is incredibly vague so it can be interpreted in many ways. As I said before, I just prefer a much more straightforward interpretation rather than an overly-complicated one.

They don't have a senzu, hence Goku cannot execute his plan. However if they become Vegetto they get a ton of free ki to use.

[Khin]

They don't have a senzu, hence Goku cannot execute his plan. However if they become Vegetto they get a ton of free ki to use.

That's not the point though, the nub here is what Goku's statement really mean, not a hypothetical scenario where Goku didn't have Zen’ō's button and they have to execute Goku's initial plan. You have your own interpretation and I have mine, as I said several times already, whatever floats your boat. I really feel that this discussion is going nowhere.

[Hugo Boss]

Do you guys suppose Goku could beat Merged Zamasu by himself if he could maintain the Kaioken x10 indefinitely with no ki drain or side effects?

I doubt. I suppose merging with Vegeta makes Goku dozens of times stronger and even by doing so he was still struggling against Zamasu. So, tenfold kaioken would still be outmatched.

But fusion is clearly much weaker than it was back in Z, so we don't know how strong Vegetto is right now. He very well may be Goku + Vegeta x5 in which case he would indeed be below Kaioken x10 Goku as Vegeta is slightly weaker.

How? It is the same Potara they used against Majin Boo. Besides, Goku said merging together was their only option and he used kaioken a few moments before.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I doubt. I suppose merging with Vegeta makes Goku dozens of times stronger and even by doing so he was still struggling against Zamasu. So, tenfold kaioken would still be outmatched.

But fusion is clearly much weaker than it was back in Z, so we don't know how strong Vegetto is right now. He very well may be Goku + Vegeta x5 in which case he would indeed be below Kaioken x10 Goku as Vegeta is slightly weaker.

How? It is the same Potara they used against Majin Boo. Besides, Goku said merging together was their only option and he used kaioken a few moments before.

In my scenario the Kaioken is limitless, has no ki drain and also no side effects. The regular Kaioken is none of these things.

[DBZ Macky]

But fusion is clearly much weaker than it was back in Z, so we don't know how strong Vegetto is right now. He very well may be Goku + Vegeta x5 in which case he would indeed be below Kaioken x10 Goku as Vegeta is slightly weaker.

This is new to me.

The way I saw it was this:
Goku Black (Scythe) > Vegeta > Goku

As for the "Arm-breaking Kamehameha", I have no reason not to believe that Vegeta can't increase the power of his attacks by sacrificing his limbs as well.

[TheUltimateNinja]

But fusion is clearly much weaker than it was back in Z, so we don't know how strong Vegetto is right now. He very well may be Goku + Vegeta x5 in which case he would indeed be below Kaioken x10 Goku as Vegeta is slightly weaker.

This is new to me.

The way I saw it was this:
Goku Black (Scythe) > Vegeta > Goku

As for the "Arm-breaking Kamehameha", I have no reason not to believe that Vegeta can't increase the power of his attacks by sacrificing his limbs as well.

In that case why would he choose to get wrecked instead of overpowering Zamasu?

[DBZ Macky]

In that case why would he choose to get wrecked instead of overpowering Zamasu?

Well, why would Goku choose to just power up a little bit when Black tells him about how he killed his family when he can easily overpower him with the Kaio-ken?

[TheUltimateNinja]

In that case why would he choose to get wrecked instead of overpowering Zamasu?

Well, why would Goku choose to just power up a little bit when Black tells him about how he killed his family when he can easily overpower him with the Kaio-ken?

Because there's a decent chance using the Kaioken will kill or cripple him.

[Abra kadabra]

In that case why would he choose to get wrecked instead of overpowering Zamasu?

Well, why would Goku choose to just power up a little bit when Black tells him about how he killed his family when he can easily overpower him with the Kaio-ken?

why didn't he use this "full power" kamehameha against black instead of merged zamasu?

[TheUltimateNinja]

In that case why would he choose to get wrecked instead of overpowering Zamasu?

Well, why would Goku choose to just power up a little bit when Black tells him about how he killed his family when he can easily overpower him with the Kaio-ken?

why didn't he use this "full power" kamehameha against black instead of merged zamasu?

Black didn't give him the opportunity.

[Bullza]

It also broke his arms and rendered him practically useless afterward so it's a big gamble. It's not something he'd ever done throughout the entire series.

[buutenks]

Goku tried to go ssj blue, but he didn't have enough energy left. So he was looking for a senzu bean to recharge himself.

Also, since Zamasu is immortal u can't beat him normally. Only way to beat him is destroy the universe/multiverse he is inhabiting.