Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Drayenko]

You're right. Point still stands. This Freeza thing is overcomplicating everything.

[bleed0range]

I feel like I'm watching Toriyama become George Lucas. Fans were all excited he was back and coming up with new material for the franchise, but then after a few mishaps now they seem to want him to just STOP and give the reigns to someone else.

I don't think Toriyama has done anything that bad. This movie has far less issues I think then the last one did. Number of wishes and things like that has always been inconsistent and changing anyway. It's not that hard to believe. The rules of the wishes are the same thing. It doesn't really matter toooo much. The point is there was a wish made and the rules stated Freeza could only be returned in pieces. Trunks blasting away those pieces doesn't seem like a plot hole to me because the pieces were the last point in time any physical version of Freeza existed before being vaporized. If they had remained on the ground to rot away it would have been the same difference.

Also, maybe the dragon doesn't want to return Freeza to normal because it's Freeza and why would anyone want to make it easy on them to bring him back to life so to spite them he brings him back in pieces.

Anyone think the Freeza in a pod in a tree may have some connection to the Kaiju trees?

[UpFromTheSkies]

I feel like I'm watching Toriyama become George Lucas. Fans were all excited he was back and coming up with new material for the franchise, but then after a few mishaps now they seem to want him to just STOP and give the reigns to someone else.

I don't think Toriyama has done anything that bad. This movie has far less issues I think then the last one did. Number of wishes and things like that has always been inconsistent and changing anyway. It's not that hard to believe. The rules of the wishes are the same thing. It doesn't really matter toooo much. The point is there was a wish made and the rules stated Freeza could only be returned in pieces. Trunks blasting away those pieces doesn't seem like a plot hole to me because the pieces were the last point in time any physical version of Freeza existed before being vaporized. If they had remained on the ground to rot away it would have been the same difference.

The difference between Dragon Ball and Star Wars is that Dragon Ball isn't meant to be taken seriously, while Star Wars is. Dragon Ball is just for fun and laughs, not serious plots and character development.

[Chuquita]

I think it's a credit to how wide the fan base is to have so many people wIth so many different priorities for what they want out of a new Dragon Ball movie. It feels like there's at least three different factions of fan types in here.

[bleed0range]

I feel like I'm watching Toriyama become George Lucas. Fans were all excited he was back and coming up with new material for the franchise, but then after a few mishaps now they seem to want him to just STOP and give the reigns to someone else.

I don't think Toriyama has done anything that bad. This movie has far less issues I think then the last one did. Number of wishes and things like that has always been inconsistent and changing anyway. It's not that hard to believe. The rules of the wishes are the same thing. It doesn't really matter toooo much. The point is there was a wish made and the rules stated Freeza could only be returned in pieces. Trunks blasting away those pieces doesn't seem like a plot hole to me because the pieces were the last point in time any physical version of Freeza existed before being vaporized. If they had remained on the ground to rot away it would have been the same difference.

The difference between Dragon Ball and Star Wars is that Dragon Ball isn't meant to be taken seriously, while Star Wars is. Dragon Ball is just for fun and laughs, not serious plots and character development.

Well, that's really debatable isn't it? Dragon Ball, at times, takes itself pretty seriously too. I didn't think it was all gags and fun when Gohan turned SSJ2 after 16's head was crushed into a pile of bolts, flesh and blood. I teared up when Goku rushed over to whisk Cell away, sacraficing himself. Saying his goodbyes to a Gohan who ran towards him in tears just missing him as he disappeared into thin air. I didn't think it was silly when Goku helped Gohan "in spirit" find the strength to defeat Cell with a one-handed KameHameHa. I also didn't think it was all ridiculous when Goten ran to meet Goku for the first time in tears. Etc., etc. My point is, neither are super serious. Both are flexible between comedy, action and actual moving moments. That's why they're so good.

They could stand to have more of the dramatic moving moments in this film. The original manga did have it's moments.

[fadeddreams5]

I think it's a credit to how wide the fan base is to have so many people wIth so many different priorities for what they want out of a new Dragon Ball movie. It feels like there's at least three different factions of fan types in here.

This is very true. I thank (blame?) the inconsistency in tone. When you compare early DB to the Cell saga to the Buu saga to the Toei movies to the tv specials, it's pretty all over the place.

A lot of people want Serious Ball Z, which is understandable given the fact that we haven't had this since.....Wrath of the Dragon? Fans of the more light-hearted aspects of DBZ will argue that those other fans don't know what DBZ even is, which is unfair considering the reason they want it is because it's been done before. >.>

[EmmaWinters]

Dug this up a few minutes ago and cleaned it up a bit. Is this new to us, or...?

Spoiler:

[Drayenko]

The difference between Dragon Ball and Star Wars is that Dragon Ball isn't meant to be taken seriously, while Star Wars is. Dragon Ball is just for fun and laughs, not serious plots and character development.

Therefore, fuck consistency. Nice.

Dug this up a few minutes ago and cleaned it up a bit. Is this new to us, or...?

Spoiler:

As somebody from another forum pointed out, "that looks like Toriyama's style, but with all the fun sucked out of it." Pretty spot on, I think.

[UpFromTheSkies]

There's a few serious moments in the series, but overall it's not meant to be taken seriously, which is obvious from how lax Toriyama is with the story, and his forgetfulness about details. Toriyama doesn't even care that he's forgotten details, he thinks it's funny, while a serious writer would be embarrassed to forget details.

[UpFromTheSkies]

The difference between Dragon Ball and Star Wars is that Dragon Ball isn't meant to be taken seriously, while Star Wars is. Dragon Ball is just for fun and laughs, not serious plots and character development.

Therefore, fuck consistency. Nice.

Yeah, pretty much....

Look, next time you get upset over some detail in the story, or are tempted to get into a serious debate over it, just remember that the characters are named after food items and underwear, and there's a magic talking pig that transforms into panties...

[lord turbo]

I feel like I'm watching Toriyama become George Lucas. Fans were all excited he was back and coming up with new material for the franchise, but then after a few mishaps now they seem to want him to just STOP and give the reigns to someone else.

I don't think Toriyama has done anything that bad. This movie has far less issues I think then the last one did. Number of wishes and things like that has always been inconsistent and changing anyway. It's not that hard to believe. The rules of the wishes are the same thing. It doesn't really matter toooo much. The point is there was a wish made and the rules stated Freeza could only be returned in pieces. Trunks blasting away those pieces doesn't seem like a plot hole to me because the pieces were the last point in time any physical version of Freeza existed before being vaporized. If they had remained on the ground to rot away it would have been the same difference.

Also, maybe the dragon doesn't want to return Freeza to normal because it's Freeza and why would anyone want to make it easy on them to bring him back to life so to spite them he brings him back in pieces.

Anyone think the Freeza in a pod in a tree may have some connection to the Kaiju trees?

I'm not going to argue the Freeza wish revival because no matter how carefully I or anyone else explains how it makes zero sense you guys just blissfully ignore it in favor of far fetch damage control theories so whatever.

[bleed0range]

I think it's a credit to how wide the fan base is to have so many people wIth so many different priorities for what they want out of a new Dragon Ball movie. It feels like there's at least three different factions of fan types in here.

This is very true. I thank (blame?) the inconsistency in tone. When you compare early DB to the Cell saga to the Buu saga to the Toei movies to the tv specials, it's pretty all over the place.

A lot of people want Serious Ball Z, which is understandable given the fact that we haven't had this since.....Wrath of the Dragon? Fans of the more light-hearted aspects of DBZ will argue that those other fans don't know what DBZ even is, which is unfair considering the reason they want it is because it's been done before. >.>

I think, like I mentioned earlier, that the solution is to simply have a balance in tone. That's pretty hard to do in just a single movie versus over the chapters of manga or episode of an anime series. It's harder to compact it all into one thing, but that would be the key. Battle of Gods is a good enough film, but it's more silly then serious... Beerus is no real threat because he is not an actual villain. Besides, to build a true sense of an enormous threat you need the ridiculous long narrative of the manga/anime. You have more time to appreciate the losses, the building threat and time to develop the characters. If you summed up the Cell saga in one movie it wouldn't be as good as the twists and turns that get you to the ultimate demise of the bad guy. You also wouldn't feel as good for the moment in which Vegeta steps in to help after Trunks gets killed. It's really a lack of time that's the biggest issue with these movies.

If you take the time to consider this film and the last... and expand on all the story elements in your mind... you get a better picture for how this all could have been a continuation of the manga. Think about the beginning of Boo... where at first it's all about the tournament but then suddenly Boo comes into play and is revived. But along the way you are thrown for a loop left and right. Oh who is this mysterious person at the tournament? What do they want? Oh wait, suddenly there's a wizard? Now Vegeta is evil again?! Oh wait what??? This evil guy is a pink blob? This has got to be a joke! ... Oh and now Vegeta sacrafices himself?

It's like a soap opera. Which is why Toriyama wrote literally whatever came to his mind at the time, that's how he kept things always in flux and changing. He didn't know where he was going with it and just went with what he came up with. I like to think Battle of Gods is like the tournament portion of Boo and this movie is sort of like the point where the real threat steps in. If you expanded on things like Vegeta/Goku and their training with Whis or other such things it would be a more interesting story with more twists and turns presenting themselves.

[EmmaWinters]

Another new one?

Spoiler:

[dbzfan7]

I'm not going to argue the Freeza wish revival because no matter how carefully I or anyone else explains how it makes zero sense you guys just blissfully ignore it in favor of far fetch damage control theories so whatever.

Agreed. I don't mind some theories, but they don't matter to me if the people giving out information can't explain these things to avoid these issues. I'm sure these explanations can't seriously be heavy spoilers. As much as I really desperately want the movie to be good, I'll laugh if this defense later becomes the second Boom effect.

[bleed0range]

I feel like I'm watching Toriyama become George Lucas. Fans were all excited he was back and coming up with new material for the franchise, but then after a few mishaps now they seem to want him to just STOP and give the reigns to someone else.

I don't think Toriyama has done anything that bad. This movie has far less issues I think then the last one did. Number of wishes and things like that has always been inconsistent and changing anyway. It's not that hard to believe. The rules of the wishes are the same thing. It doesn't really matter toooo much. The point is there was a wish made and the rules stated Freeza could only be returned in pieces. Trunks blasting away those pieces doesn't seem like a plot hole to me because the pieces were the last point in time any physical version of Freeza existed before being vaporized. If they had remained on the ground to rot away it would have been the same difference.

Also, maybe the dragon doesn't want to return Freeza to normal because it's Freeza and why would anyone want to make it easy on them to bring him back to life so to spite them he brings him back in pieces.

Anyone think the Freeza in a pod in a tree may have some connection to the Kaiju trees?

I'm not going to argue the Freeza wish revival because no matter how carefully I or anyone else explains how it makes zero sense you guys just blissfully ignore it in favor of far fetch damage control theories so whatever.

Well, I am not blissfully ignoring anything. There's nothing that can be done about it. It is what it is.

There's a few serious moments in the series, but overall it's not meant to be taken seriously, which is obvious from how lax Toriyama is with the story, and his forgetfulness about details. Toriyama doesn't even care that he's forgotten details, he thinks it's funny, while a serious writer would be embarrassed to forget details.

Toriyama's never taken the manga seriously. That doesn't mean the manga itself has never taken itself seriously. He treats it as this silly little story he came up with but it doesn't have the same meaning to him as it does to many of it's fans. But that's really just his work ethic/personal opinions. It doesn't really necessarily reflect on the story itself. When he wrote it he wrote it to be taken seriously at times... even if he didn't care particularly one way or the other.

[UpFromTheSkies]

I'm pretty sure scans of the entire chapter are floating around online. I really like his art, I'm hoping Toriyama will be inspired to continue writing the story and have Toyotarō draw it.

[Sora Saiyan]

Are people having much of a problem with Freeza appearing in a pod in the afterlife? I mean I'm not sure if anything about this has been stated in Toyotaros manga, but isn't it possible Freeza was a cloud at the check in station and when he was thrown into hell he was returned to his physical form? This way he can't attack Enma Daio.

[bleed0range]

Are people having much of a problem with Freeza appearing in a pod in the afterlife? I mean I'm not sure if anything about this has been stated in Toyotaros manga, but isn't it possible Freeza was a cloud at the check in station and when he was thrown into hell he was returned to his physical form? This way he can't attack Enma Daio.

Wasn't Videl shown as having an upper body in the afterlife but a ghostly spirit tail? Or was that just filler? Because all the check-in station spirits are just blobs. You can't see the lower portion of Freeza in the pod.

By the way, Dabura WAS mentioned in the manga as being sent to heaven instead of hell as his punishment.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Are people having much of a problem with Freeza appearing in a pod in the afterlife? I mean I'm not sure if anything about this has been stated in Toyotaros manga, but isn't it possible Freeza was a cloud at the check in station and when he was thrown into hell he was returned to his physical form? This way he can't attack Enma Daio.

It's entirely possible that he was given a body later as part of his torture, and I'd be entirely fine with that. It just needs to be addressed in the film if that is the case and not just something we have to wildly assume for ourselves. During his training or while explaining what happened to the heroes (he's going to, you know that), have Freeza complain about them giving him his body back once he got to hell only to humiliate him or whatever and it's covered.

Some may not like the statement, but it's no longer in inconsistency that way at least.

Wasn't Videl shown as having an upper body in the afterlife but a ghostly spirit tail? Or was that just filler? Because all the check-in station spirits are just blobs. You can't see the lower portion of Freeza in the pod.

That was filler.

[bleed0range]

Are people having much of a problem with Freeza appearing in a pod in the afterlife? I mean I'm not sure if anything about this has been stated in Toyotaros manga, but isn't it possible Freeza was a cloud at the check in station and when he was thrown into hell he was returned to his physical form? This way he can't attack Enma Daio.

It's entirely possible that he was given a body later as part of his torture, and I'd be entirely fine with that. It just needs to be addressed in the film if that is the case and not just something we have to wildly assume for ourselves. During his training or while explaining what happened to the heroes (he's going to, you know that), have Freeza complain about them giving him his body back once he got to hell only to humiliate him or whatever and it's covered.

Some may not like the statement, but it's no longer in inconsistency that way at least.

Wasn't Videl shown as having an upper body in the afterlife but a ghostly spirit tail? Or was that just filler? Because all the check-in station spirits are just blobs. You can't see the lower portion of Freeza in the pod.

That was filler.

But I just noticed Dabura was mentioned as being sent to heaven as punishment. Are we sure the same wasn't done for Freeza?