Official On-Going DBZ 2013 Movie Thread: "Battle of Gods"

[DBZGTKOSDH]

In the FUNimation dub Gohan asks Elder Kai how to know if his ritual thing worked, and Elder Kai told him to transform into a Super Saiyan, and then he became Ultimate Gohan. But that was a dub so it's not to concrete.

In the manga, he told Gohan to get the gist of transforming into a Super Saiyan, and throw a Kiai with it.

There is no indication that Gohan can't transform into a Super Saiyan (as an alternative to his Ultimate state) in the manga, or any manga guidebook. BoG implies that Gohan can either power-up to his Ultimate state, or transform into a Super Saiyan.

[Elton Stryker]

1980 Where's Waldo?
2013 Where's Bra?

[FindKenshi]

1980 Where's Waldo?
2013 Where's Bra?

Probably not born yet?

[Makaioshin]

1980 Where's Waldo?
2013 Where's Bra?

Her birth year is given as 778 and 780 in supplemental material. She hasn't been born yet in this movie so I guess that confirms the 780 birth year. Maybe.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

"Battle of Gods" watch :

I want that watch! I was looking at it on eBay earlier, but it was like £530. I don't know whether go for it or not.

[TheSonofKakarrot]

Well why was Gohan able to go Super Saiyan to give Goku his power then? His Ultimate form replace Super Saiyan so he shouldn't be able to transform.

Quite a few people in quite a few discussions have come to a very possible, very likely, but of course unanswerable conclusion that since nothing was ever stated saying Gohan absolutely 100% could NOT transform into a Super Saiyan ever again, there is nothing preventing him from doing so under special circumstances.

Was there anything to ever hint that he couldn'd tranform ever again once the Elder Kai unlocked his ability? That's something that's been bugging me for a long time.

There's two things which do it for me, one which I think people seem to neglect.

Halfway through the ritual, Gohan gets annoyed with it taking as long as it has and he believes, in his mind, that he's been sitting there for no reason wasting his time. His annoyance turns to rage which you can clearly see that he's attempting to go Super Saiyan as he's getting angry but his hair color does not change, but his eyes turn blue. In the manga, his hair remains the same, but eyes are that of a Super Saiyan. This, to me, is an indicator being that Gohan was halfway through the ritual, that his ability to go Super Saiyan was being overlapped by his "Mystic" powerup. Gohan notices his power and quickly sits down and says "Sorry." Elder Kaioshin resumes the ritual.

The second/third piece of evidence is once the ritual is over, Gohan asks how he is to unlock his potential. Elder Kaioshin says "Attempt to do that Super-whatever you call it thing" (Super Saiyan). Gohan does just that, but doesn't turn SSJ and instead unlocks his potential. This falls in line with the first reason because he attempted to go SSJ before halfway through and only his eyes changed color. When Goku says Gohan has so much power and isn't even SSJ, Elder Kaioshin gives a "Heh" and says "That Super Saiyan thing has been depraved." In the manga, he says something along the lines of "Transforming is the wrong way to go about things."

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Elder Kaioshin says "Attempt to do that Super-whatever you call it thing" (Super Saiyan). Gohan does just that, but doesn't turn SSJ and instead unlocks his potential.

Nope, that's not what Rou Kaioshin says.

Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302), P4.1-2
Gohan: “Ho-how can I turn into this mightiest of warriors!?”
Elder Kaioshin: “You transform into that Super whatever-it-is a lot, right? You’ll be fine if you just get the gist of that, and throw in a kiai.”
Gohan: “The gist of Super Saiyan…I-I got it…!”

He tells him to get the gist of the transformation, and throw in a Kiai. He doesn't tell him to turn into a Super Saiyan.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

No, not quite. The 2008 Jump special took place two years after Majin Boo, and this takes place after it. How long after isn't officially stated, but if Videl's already pregnant with Pan, who's 4 at the end of the manga, which is 10 years after Boo... then Battle of Gods would seem take place about 5 years after Boo, smack dab in the middle of that 10-year time skip. Movie 13 is almost certainly even before the 2008 special, since Gohan and Videl are shown still in high school during it.

With her official birth year being AGE 779, Pan should turn 5 in AGE 784. At the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai, which is always held on May 7th, she says she's four. So her birthday has to be some time after that. Depending on the specific month though, Videl could have been pregnant with her in AGE 778...

Birusu took a 39 year nap waiting for the Super Saiyan God to appear and specifically asks if Uisu whether Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta during his nap, which happened in AGE 737. Because of the Tarble reference in the film, we know it happens after the JSAT special, which took place in AGE 776. Which means Birusu probably went to sleep earlier the same year Freeza killed off the Saiyans.

Sadly, regardless of how you try to wedge it in somewhere, the the movie contradicts something...

[InfernalVegito]

But isn't Bra older than Pan? Therefore, she should be in the movie if they didn't forget about her.

[alakazam^]

I think she has two birth dates: one where she is older and one when she is younger than Pan. Going by the movie, Bra is younger than Pan.

[FindKenshi]

Elder Kaioshin says "Attempt to do that Super-whatever you call it thing" (Super Saiyan). Gohan does just that, but doesn't turn SSJ and instead unlocks his potential.

Nope, that's not what Rou Kaioshin says.

Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302), P4.1-2
Gohan: “Ho-how can I turn into this mightiest of warriors!?”
Elder Kaioshin: “You transform into that Super whatever-it-is a lot, right? You’ll be fine if you just get the gist of that, and throw in a kiai.”
Gohan: “The gist of Super Saiyan…I-I got it…!”

He tells him to get the gist of the transformation, and throw in a Kiai. He doesn't tell him to turn into a Super Saiyan.

That seems like splitting hairs to me. A kiai is basically just a martial arts "shout" isn't it? I know by Dragonball definition, it's like an invisible ki-projection attack, but all it really means is the shout or yell martial artists do right before they break a board or throw a really strong kick or whatever. DB characters can "attack" with their kiai just cuz their strong.

As for "get the gist of Super Saiyan" isn't that basically the same as saying "think of Super Saiyan and then yell."

[TheSonofKakarrot]

Elder Kaioshin says "Attempt to do that Super-whatever you call it thing" (Super Saiyan). Gohan does just that, but doesn't turn SSJ and instead unlocks his potential.

Nope, that's not what Rou Kaioshin says.

Chapter: 496 (DBZ 302), P4.1-2
Gohan: “Ho-how can I turn into this mightiest of warriors!?”
Elder Kaioshin: “You transform into that Super whatever-it-is a lot, right? You’ll be fine if you just get the gist of that, and throw in a kiai.”
Gohan: “The gist of Super Saiyan…I-I got it…!”

He tells him to get the gist of the transformation, and throw in a Kiai. He doesn't tell him to turn into a Super Saiyan.

That seems like splitting hairs to me. A kiai is basically just a martial arts "shout" isn't it? I know by Dragonball definition, it's like an invisible ki-projection attack, but all it really means is the shout or yell martial artists do right before they break a board or throw a really strong kick or whatever. DB characters can "attack" with their kiai just cuz their strong.

As for "get the gist of Super Saiyan" isn't that basically the same as saying "think of Super Saiyan and then yell."

My sentiments exactly. Not to mention, there's so many translations that are different but similar all across the board (from Viz to fan translated manga etc). Plus, this is reinforced by my first comments about Gohan getting pissed halfway through the ritual and powering up with only his eyes changing to its Super Saiyan color but his hair remaining the same, indicating he was attempting to go Super Saiyan but was instead unlocking his potential.

[SSJ6Goku]

But isn't Bra older than Pan? Therefore, she should be in the movie if they didn't forget about her.

I think she has two birth dates: one where she is older and one when she is younger than Pan. Going by the movie, Bra is younger than Pan.

word...i always thought bra was like 16 and pan was like 12 in dbgt. look at them in the pic, bra looks older. but it sounds like they messed up somewhere?

[Naughty Kinto Un]

"Battle of Gods" watch :

I want that watch! I was looking at it on eBay earlier, but it was like £530. I don't know whether go for it or not.

You should only buy it if the price won't daunt you from wearing it and you'll have it on your wrist every day for more than ten years. The watch won't be what's generally considered stylish so you'll want it to have a deep sentimental meaning to you. It's an expensive piece of merchandise.

It might be valuable from a collector's standpoint -- honestly, I wouldn't know -- and its resell value could rise in a few years, but I'm guessing from what you wrote that you don't want to just store it away, untouched. Though maybe it'd be nice as a mantlepiece of sorts. Unless you're a collector, I wouldn't get it for reasons that a collector would.

Personally, I wouldn't buy it. My mother always taught me, though unfortunately I don't always follow this advice myself, is that if you're on the fence about buying something, it probably means you shouldn't buy it.

Think about all the other Dragon Ball stuff you could buy with that money! Think about the apartment room you could rent for a month or two with that money! Or the weeks of groceries you can buy with that money! Or better yet, think of all that other Dragon Ball stuff you could buy with that money!

I guess the question is, do you really need to tell time that badly?

[alakazam^]

My sentiments exactly. Not to mention, there's so many translations that are different but similar all across the board (from Viz to fan translated manga etc). Plus, this is reinforced by my first comments about Gohan getting pissed halfway through the ritual and powering up with only his eyes changing to its Super Saiyan color but his hair remaining the same, indicating he was attempting to go Super Saiyan but was instead unlocking his potential.

But how can you tell his eyes change but not his hair going by the manga? Even if he gets full outlined eyes, it doesn't mean his irises change color like they do in the anime, unless they change color in the manga as well. And I don't think he turns to SSJ automaticly when angry. We saw it with Videl but you can't really compare the two situations.

[Saiga]

@worldmonsters Gohan's "rage boosts" have always been unique to Gohan, and attributed to his hybrid nature causing him to have hidden powers that were awakened by his anger. Vegeta isn't a hybrid, so it doesn't make sense for him to power up like Gohan does. Characters don't just get stronger from being angry, and it's never explicitly happened to anyone but Gohan.

@DBZGTKOSDH There's no reason he needs to let Boo live, though. The responsible thing to do would be to kill Boo, then teach the boys fusion. I wish it wasn't so but it was really irresponsible of him to leave Boo alive if he was really able to kill him. He's taking way too huge a gamble by letting Boo live, especially because if the boys fail he can't come in to take care of things.

[Draken]

@worldmonsters Gohan's "rage boosts" have always been unique to Gohan, and attributed to his hybrid nature causing him to have hidden powers that were awakened by his anger. Vegeta isn't a hybrid, so it doesn't make sense for him to power up like Gohan does. Characters don't just get stronger from being angry, and it's never explicitly happened to anyone but Gohan.

@DBZGTKOSDH There's no reason he needs to let Boo live, though. The responsible thing to do would be to kill Boo, then teach the boys fusion. I wish it wasn't so but it was really irresponsible of him to leave Boo alive if he was really able to kill him. He's taking way too huge a gamble by letting Boo live, especially because if the boys fail he can't come in to take care of things.

I feel like at the end of the day, no matter how Goku chose to do things, they woulda ended up at the same spot anyways... Buu is just a wacked up deformed monster that could regenerate from mist, so despite Goku's confidence he could have beaten Buu the first time, he probably didn't have the power to completely vaporize Buu like the Spirit Bomb did, nor would Gohan have been able to against Super Buu.

[Saiga]

I feel like at the end of the day, no matter how Goku chose to do things, they woulda ended up at the same spot anyways... Buu is just a wacked up deformed monster that could regenerate from mist, so despite Goku's confidence he could have beaten Buu the first time, he probably didn't have the power to completely vaporize Buu like the Spirit Bomb did, nor would Gohan have been able to against Super Buu.

That may be so, and I believe that Goku might have failed because he wasn't fully aware of Super Saiyan 3's drawbacks... but he didn't even try, as Piccolo pointed out. If he knew he couldn't beat Boo, or tried and failed, I'd understand. But thinking he could win and not trying to is slack.

[alakazam^]

Well, he wants to save them from dyingand suffering but at the end of the day, dying isn't a big thing. If Boo wasn't a magical being capable of teleporting to other realms, being dead would be the best since they could get together and never worry about Boo again.

[SaiyaJedi]

word...i always thought bra was like 16 and pan was like 12 in dbgt. look at them in the pic, bra looks older. but it sounds like they messed up somewhere?

Yes. As has been stated several times in this thread and elsewhere, Bra is listed (in Daizenshuu 7) as being born in both Age 778 and Age 780, while Pan is unambiguously born in Age 779. The GT Perfect File books stick with Bra's birthdate in Age 780, though, which lines up with Pan being the older of the two.

(Incidentally, this makes Pan about 9-10 and Bra about 8-9 during the events of GT.)