"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

Regarding the tibit that Black grows stronger because of pain, that moment when Black smiles when Trunks punches him in the gut in the second or third chapter was some pretty cool foreshadowing.

Although if his purpose was to grow stronger, why did he go the route of keeping Trunks around? He could have just fought with Future Zamasu and healed until it didn't work any more.
To make sense of this, it's probably because of the beating received. That's why eventually Trunks was of no use and Future Zamasu is likely weaker than Trunks.

He could have just powered down like Vegeta did in Namek... Either this type of zenkais are different or this is a plot hole. Likely the latter.

Anyway can't wait to read the chapter!

[Bansho64]

No, the slightly different; insignificant events, that don't effect the story, do NOT change the story. They are both the same.
You people are nitpicking.

You call actual different events taking place insignificant? Different events happen in both stories. They're two different continuities. I don't know how to explain it any further than this.

[Miracles]

No, the slightly different; insignificant events, that don't effect the story, do NOT change the story. They are both the same.
You people are nitpicking.

You call actual different events taking place insignificant? Different events happen in both stories. They're two different continuities. I don't know how to explain it any further than this.

You can't explain irrelevant differences dividing a story, especially when Toriyama approves them, it's ridiculous.

[Noah]

So just to get this straight:

SSJ Black was way stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta, right? But he got beated on purpose to become even stronger, but then Vegeta shows his true power and overwhelms Black thus leading to his acquire his Super Saiyan Rosé transformation?

Okay... And the fact that was Black who let himself get beated it on purpose that keeps the power-scaling still consistent?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

So just to get this straight:

SSJ Black is way stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta, right? But he got beated on purpose to become stronger, but then Vegeta shows his true power and overwhelms Black thus leading to his acquire his Super Saiyan Rosé transformation?

Okay... And the fact that was Black who let himself get beated it on purpose that keeps the power-scaling still consistent?

I don't know where your getting all of these assumptions from, but the power scale is fucked regardless. It's really a useless discussion to have.

[Bansho64]

You can't explain irrelevant differences dividing a story, especially when Toriyama approves them, it's ridiculous.

These so called "irrelevant" differences are what puts them in two separate continuities. Whether Toriyama approves or not has no weight in this discussion. The two seperate events are what seperates them. It seems like you aren't quite getting this. That's ridiculous.

Seriously, different versions of events are happening. Especially in this most recent chapter.

[Miracles]

You can't explain irrelevant differences dividing a story, especially when Toriyama approves them, it's ridiculous.

.......Whether Toriyama approves or not has no weight in this discussion.....

We're done here.

[HeroR]

Really continuing to absolutely despite Black's portrayal in the manga. It's like he's a completely different character.

We've barely seen any of the new chapter yet, even less of it has been translated. Sounds like you've made your mind up beforehand, not that I mind if you don't like it.

Or have I missed something?

It's not like Dragon Ball is hard to get. We've had multiple chapters with Black so far, plus Herms has been translating the most important parts of the chapter on his Twitter and most of the pages are out; I already know the relevant information, two or three untranslated speech bubbles aren't gonna make a big difference. All the interesting character traits I liked about him are gone, I already disliked him last chapter, this one is just an addendum.

Can you be specific?

I still call BS on Black jobbing so hard that he matched himself to Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta when he's using Super Saiyan 1/2. Like, why? He could have done that in his base. I would have preferred if Black fought Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta in base, then transformed into a Super Super 1/2 when confronting with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta and then get his butt wiped. And why did Black have a breakdown if this was all according to plan?

[Noah]

So just to get this straight:

SSJ Black is way stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta, right? But he got beated on purpose to become stronger, but then Vegeta shows his true power and overwhelms Black thus leading to his acquire his Super Saiyan Rosé transformation?

Okay... And the fact that was Black who let himself get beated it on purpose that keeps the power-scaling still consistent?

I don't know where your getting all of these assumptions from, but the power scale is fucked regardless. It's really a useless discussion to have.

This is not my assumption, but his:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This had to be my favorite scene. Power scaling isn't messed up anymore since the theorists were correct, Black jobbed on purpose to get that sweet zenkai

Was this confirmed or not?

[Bansho64]

We're done here.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we are. This was never a debate. The fact of the matter is, they're two seperate continuites. Whether you wanna acknowledge that fact or not is up to you.

[Freeza9000]

I'm kinda intrigued on the recent leaks of the manga so far. With that being said, I might enjoy reliving the experience I had with the Zamasu arc, except in manga. What I also like to mention is that I do somewhat appreciate the manga cutting out some of the back and forth time traveling.

[Draconic]

This chapter looks really good (though I dislike the way Toyotaro draws Rose), but it only makes the last one that much worse. You can't tell me Black was planning his buttkicking. He was never in control of that fight. Had Vegeta decided to kill him first before punching him a few blocks away for Zamasu to pick him up his plan would go to shit. Worst plan I've ever seen.

Gotta love Zamasu destroying the Senzu, though. Goku forgetting them was the stupidest part of the arc in the anime.

Really wonder how Toyotaro will handle the Mafuba. Will Trunks struggle to use it like the anime, or will Goku just do it instead?

[HeroR]

And another 'Toei idea' has been put to rest. I didn't think the Evil Containment Wave was something Toei would think up on their own. I will say that I do like Zamasu destroying the Senzu bag instead of Goku just forgetting them. It wasn't something that annoyed me in the anime, but I do like this take better.

[OLKv3]

And another 'Toei idea' has been put to rest. I didn't think the Evil Containment Wave was something Toei would think up on their own. I will say that I do like Zamasu destroying the Senzu bag instead of Goku just forgetting them. It wasn't something that annoyed me in the anime, but I do like this take better.

The Mafuba wasn't bad, it's how they executed everything involving it that was bad, like Zamasu taking forever to reach Bulma, and then the stupid Bulma trying to flirt with him nonsense, and Trunks learning it in 2 minutes. I hope it isn't like this in the manga, but if it is I'll crap on it here too

And no, the whole Black planning to lose hasn't been confirmed yet, but it feels likely, it'd be the same thing as the anime, where Base Black let SSB Vegeta get some hits on him before effortlessly kicking him back

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I didn't think the Evil Containment Wave was something Toei would think up on their own.

I don't see why not, they think of things like that all the time. In fact, the Mafuba being a Toriyama idea makes me think less of him, if anything.

[HeroR]

And another 'Toei idea' has been put to rest. I didn't think the Evil Containment Wave was something Toei would think up on their own. I will say that I do like Zamasu destroying the Senzu bag instead of Goku just forgetting them. It wasn't something that annoyed me in the anime, but I do like this take better.

The Mafuba wasn't bad, it's how they executed everything involving it that was bad, like Zamasu taking forever to reach Bulma, and then the stupid Bulma trying to flirt with him nonsense, and Trunks learning it in 2 minutes. I hope it isn't like this in the manga, but if it is I'll crap on it here too

And no, the whole Black planning to lose hasn't been confirmed yet, but it feels likely, it'd be the same thing as the anime, where Base Black let SSB Vegeta get some hits on him before effortlessly kicking him back

Black didn't get stronger off of Vegeta until he figured out anger. He let Vegeta beat him up, but Vegeta literally did nothing to him.

Bulma flirting wasn't stupid, she was buying time. I don't see what's wrong with that.

I didn't think the Evil Containment Wave was something Toei would think up on their own.

I don't see why not, they think of things like that all the time. In fact, the Mafuba being a Toriyama idea makes me think less of him, if anything.

Other than the Kaioken and some other returning moves like the Final Flash, named another idea that was clearly Toei's that effected the overall story?

[Beerus-sama]

Gotta love Zamasu destroying the Senzu, though. Goku forgetting them was the stupidest part of the arc in the anime.

Goku forgetting them wasn't that bad. Goku forgetting them in the bathroom was terrible.

Really wonder how Toyotaro will handle the Mafuba. Will Trunks struggle to use it like the anime, or will Goku just do it instead?

I'll be ok if whoever learns it use it in battle. It was good in the anime (aside from Trunks learning it in an instant after watching a video), but it was kind of wrong that Goku spent a night mastering it for him not using it at the end. I do wonder how will they handle the seal of the jar though

[Totamo]

And another 'Toei idea' has been put to rest. I didn't think the Evil Containment Wave was something Toei would think up on their own. I will say that I do like Zamasu destroying the Senzu bag instead of Goku just forgetting them. It wasn't something that annoyed me in the anime, but I do like this take better.

The Mafuba wasn't bad, it's how they executed everything involving it that was bad, like Zamasu taking forever to reach Bulma, and then the stupid Bulma trying to flirt with him nonsense, and Trunks learning it in 2 minutes. I hope it isn't like this in the manga, but if it is I'll crap on it here too

And no, the whole Black planning to lose hasn't been confirmed yet, but it feels likely, it'd be the same thing as the anime, where Base Black let SSB Vegeta get some hits on him before effortlessly kicking him back

Black didn't get stronger off of Vegeta until he figured out anger. He let Vegeta beat him up, but Vegeta literally did nothing to him.

Bulma flirting wasn't stupid, she was buying time. I don't see what's wrong with that.

I didn't think the Evil Containment Wave was something Toei would think up on their own.

I don't see why not, they think of things like that all the time. In fact, the Mafuba being a Toriyama idea makes me think less of him, if anything.

Other than the Kaioken and some other returning moves like the Final Flash, named another idea that was clearly Toei's that effected the overall story?

The time paradox of goku having fought zamasu, trunks time machine being destroyed, them retreating because they were defeated instead they actually have a plan oh and Goku defeating zamasu who in the anime matched him.

Little changes make all the difference. Haven't you watched TFS? The changes they do to the script, change the characters.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Other than the Kaioken and some other returning moves like the Final Flash, named another idea that was clearly Toei's that effected the overall story?

BoG:

-Vegeta says he'll top Goku, essentially undoing decades-old Vegeta development(?)
-The tone of the reveal of Videl's pregnancy is totally changed. (I would mark it with a ?, but the humor was done in such an un-Toriyama way that it had to be outside influence)
-Possible change in the time of Kibito-Kaioshin's de-fusion(?)
-Universe destroying waves. These were present in the manga as well, meaning that they didn't have their origins in Toei. However, Toei made a huge deal over what would normally have been a throwaway line leading up to conclusion.
-Weird Dragon ki attack bullshit?
-SSG gets healing powers. (I probably should list all of these as one change, dragging the fight out, but I really want to rub it in.)

RoF:

-Goku and Vegeta training filler. (I liked it, but it's telltale Toei.)
-Tagoma and Ginyu storylines.

(I condensed it, but keep in mind that this took up a lot more time than all of the BoG list)

U6:

-Frost backstory
-Piccolo fanservice episode
-Kaioken (because it's relevant)

I'm not comfortable giving a full list the FT Arc yet, because quite honestly, I have a hard time picking out Toriyama in that arc. Once the manga's done and I re-visit both versions a few times, I can probably give you a list of that, too.

[Gog]

Read the thread, and reread it.

So, how did the manga ruin Black Goku, and Zamasu's personality's. Would enjoy a full run down on that.