Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Yeah, manga just completely screwed up the perfectly decent scalling they had established up to this point. It's no longer a viable source for powerscalling either.

[Bullza]

I don't know if people have seen but scans for the newest chapter are here and the power scaling confuses me.

{Link to illegal, pirated material removed by moderator.}

Before Base Black was supposed to be stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks who was much stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Goku and Vegeta (being equal to Super Saiyan 3 Goku).

Yet in this chapter the supposed weaker Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta not only seemed to make Black transform into a Super Saiyan 2 himself....but then seemed to get the upper hand over him or at least fight on par with him.

That don't make any sense.

[HeroR]

Yeah, manga just completely screwed up the perfectly decent scalling they had established up to this point. It's no longer a viable source for powerscalling either.

Since when was the manga good for power scaling outside of the manga? Also, the scale went off the rails when it randomly gave Trunks a mutated Super Saiyan 2 that is more powerful than Goku's Super Saiyan 3.

[Doctor.]

Yeah, manga just completely screwed up the perfectly decent scalling they had established up to this point. It's no longer a viable source for powerscalling either.

Since when was the manga good for power scaling outside of the manga? Also, the scale went off the rails when it randomly gave Trunks a mutated Super Saiyan 2 that is more powerful than Goku's Super Saiyan 3.

I said decent, not good. I've always thought the manga had its problems with powerscalling, starting with Hit.

[buutenks]

The way i see it is base Black=base saiyans,ssj1-2 Black=ssj1-2 saiyans and ssj rose=ssj blue.

Note:i didnt actually read the chapter.

[Doctor.]

The way i see it is base Black=base saiyans,ssj1-2 Black=ssj1-2 saiyans and ssj rose=ssj blue.

Note:i didnt actually read the chapter.

That doesn't work since base Black beat Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

[buutenks]

The way i see it is base Black=base saiyans,ssj1-2 Black=ssj1-2 saiyans and ssj rose=ssj blue.

Note:i didnt actually read the chapter.

That doesn't work since base Black beat Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

Oh, he did? Hmm ok then how does he have trouble with ssj Vegeta...

[HeroR]

The way i see it is base Black=base saiyans,ssj1-2 Black=ssj1-2 saiyans and ssj rose=ssj blue.

Note:i didnt actually read the chapter.

That doesn't work since base Black beat Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

Was base form Black vs Super Saiyan 2 Trunks a stomp in the manga or was it more of an even match?

[Alruneia]

So, according to the manga:
SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ1 Black > Base Black > FPSSJ2 Trunks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Goku

???
Pretty sure that's the worst piece of powerscaling the manga has done so far, even beating the Hit business.

[Doctor.]

The way i see it is base Black=base saiyans,ssj1-2 Black=ssj1-2 saiyans and ssj rose=ssj blue.

Note:i didnt actually read the chapter.

That doesn't work since base Black beat Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

Was base form Black vs Super Saiyan 2 Trunks a stomp in the manga or was it more of an even match?

Pretty much the same as the anime. Black had the upperhand the entire fight, Trunks got one or two hits here and there and then managed to escape right before he got killed. Actually, base Black even knocked Trunks out of his SS2 state.

[HeroR]

So, according to the manga:
SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ1 Black > Base Black > FPSSJ2 Trunks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Goku

???
Pretty sure that's the worst piece of powerscaling the manga has done so far, even beating the Hit business.

I think Black is a Super Saiyan 2 because of the sparks.

[Lord Beerus]

SSJ/SSJ2 Goku Black should be giving SSJ2 Vegeta the ass kicking of a lifetime instead of just getting beaten down like he does, considering his base form is SSJ3 tier in strength, as Base Goku Black is way stronger than SSJ2 Future Trunks, who in turn is much stronger than SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta and par with SSJ3 Goku. It really doesn't make any sense. The power-scaling has officially gone to shit in the manga.

[Bullza]

Was base form Black vs Super Saiyan 2 Trunks a stomp in the manga or was it more of an even match?

It was similar to the fight they had in Episode 48 of the anime.

Trunks still used the Masenko which Black had to block except here it pushes him back like 20 ft and he strains a bit with it. Trunks punches him in the stomach and Black smiles though looked winded initially. Black fires a blast into his stomach but he stays on his feet but another blow knocks him down and then Trunks escapes.

So yeah like the anime Trunks wasn't exactly stomped but he was clearly outmatched.

It doesn't really make sense then for that Trunks to be equal to SSJ3 Goku and then SSJ2 Vegeta is supposed to be weaker than SSJ2 Trunks but he's doing better against a much stronger version of Black.

[Alruneia]

So, according to the manga:
SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ1 Black > Base Black > FPSSJ2 Trunks > SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Goku

???
Pretty sure that's the worst piece of powerscaling the manga has done so far, even beating the Hit business.

I think Black is a Super Saiyan 2 because of the sparks.

I'm not going to repeat my argument over and over again, but: Sparks are not a 100 % indicator, and Black's hair almost always has SSJ1 bangs. I'm putting him as SSJ1. Here's an example of very clear SSJ1 hairstyle even though there are sparks there:


I'm also putting Vegeta as SSJ2 because I'm trying to have the powerscaling get the least messed up. In order to make this make the most sense, Vegeta must be in the strongest form and Black in the weakest, even though it doesn't fix much.
My point was that Goku and Vegeta are supposed to be equals, but that's very clearly contradicted.

(Edit: Tell me if that screenshot isn't allowed. I'm not sure if it is or not, since it's small.)

[Marlowe89]

Even if you don't consider the whole Super Saiyan 2 Trunks being on par with Super Saiyan 3 Goku business, the chapter itself is still odd with the power-scaling: Vegeta transforms and then base Black seems to be dealing with him just fine, but as soon as Black transforms Vegeta suddenly gets the upper hand even though he's still just in Super Saiyan 2.

Maybe Black wasn't accustomed to transforming and it drained his power immediately? I can't think of anything else that would resolve this, and without a translation it's hard to judge.

[HeroR]

Was base form Black vs Super Saiyan 2 Trunks a stomp in the manga or was it more of an even match?

It was similar to the fight they had in Episode 48 of the anime.

Trunks still used the Masenko which Black had to block except here it pushes him back like 20 ft and he strains a bit with it. Trunks punches him in the stomach and Black smiles though looked winded initially. Black fires a blast into his stomach but he stays on his feet but another blow knocks him down and then Trunks escapes.

So yeah like the anime Trunks wasn't exactly stomped but he was clearly outmatched.

It doesn't really make sense then for that Trunks to be equal to SSJ3 Goku and then SSJ2 Vegeta is supposed to be weaker than SSJ2 Trunks but he's doing better against a much stronger version of Black.

I disagree here. Trunks was clearly stomped in the anime since Trunks attacked Black once, which Black laughed at, before wrecking Trunks. The Masenko was basically a gimped Solar Flare to Black.

[Freeza9000]

Yeah, manga just completely screwed up the perfectly decent scalling they had established up to this point. It's no longer a viable source for powerscalling either.

Since when was the manga good for power scaling outside of the manga? Also, the scale went off the rails when it randomly gave Trunks a mutated Super Saiyan 2 that is more powerful than Goku's Super Saiyan 3.

Because Trunks was training 24/7 of his life and even said so in that same chapter. Plus, this is nothing compared to how SSJ2 Trunks was able to take on SSJR Goku Black in EP 57 who was able to beat SSJB Vegeta who was originally beating up Trunks 3 episodes prior to 57....

[buutenks]

Ok, how the heck could Toyotaru have messed up this badly? I mean Toei was a given, since each episode has a different writer, so theyd make some mistakes eventually, but the manga is has one writer...

[Doctor.]

Ok, how the heck could Toyotaru have messed up this badly? I mean Toei was a given, since each episode has a different writer, so theyd make some mistakes eventually, but the manga is has one writer...

Did people seriously expect good writing from the guy who wrote AF? It was only a matter of time until people started seeing the flaws in his writing, flaws which were present from the beginning.

[buutenks]

Ok, how the heck could Toyotaru have messed up this badly? I mean Toei was a given, since each episode has a different writer, so theyd make some mistakes eventually, but the manga is has one writer...

Did people seriously expect good writing from the guy who wrote AF? It was only a matter of time until people started seeing the flaws in his writing, flaws which were present from the beginning.

Ye, but these are pretty serious flaws. Base Black should be above ssj3 Goku, so unless ssj1/2 Vegeta is secretly way stronger than ssj3 Goku, he should get his butt kicked.