"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

The time paradox of goku having fought zamasu, trunks time machine being destroyed, them retreating because they were defeated instead they actually have a plan oh and Goku defeating zamasu who in the anime matched him.

Little changes make all the difference. Haven't you watched TFS? The changes they do to the script, change the characters.

How do you know these weren't parts of Toriyama's script that the manga didn't cut out to save time?

Other than the Kaioken and some other returning moves like the Final Flash, named another idea that was clearly Toei's that effected the overall story?

BoG:

-Vegeta says he'll top Goku, essentially undoing decades-old Vegeta development(?)
-The tone of the reveal of Videl's pregnancy is totally changed. (I would mark it with a ?, but the humor was done in such an un-Toriyama way that it had to be outside influence)
-Possible change in the time of Kibito-Kaioshin's de-fusion(?)
-Universe destroying waves. These were present in the manga as well, meaning that they didn't have their origins in Toei. However, Toei made a huge deal over what would normally have been a throwaway line leading up to conclusion.
-Weird Dragon ki attack bullshit?
-SSG gets healing powers. (I probably should list all of these as one change, dragging the fight out, but I really want to rub it in.)

RoF:

-Goku and Vegeta training filler. (I liked it, but it's telltale Toei.)
-Tagoma and Ginyu storylines.

(I condensed it, but keep in mind that this took up a lot more time than all of the BoG list)

U6:

-Frost backstory
-Piccolo fanservice episode
-Kaioken (because it's relevant)

I'm not comfortable giving a full list the FT Arc yet, because quite honestly, I have a hard time picking out Toriyama in that arc. Once the manga's done and I re-visit both versions a few times, I can probably give you a list of that, too.

- Toriyama did that himself when he rewrote the ending of the manga with Vegeta saying that he would surpassed Goku someday. Not to mention he wrote Resurrection 'F' when Vegeta had a rivalry with Goku.
- That is you nitpicking about the humor and not even a major story change.
- What different does that make. They defused in both the anime and manga, and no major plot was changed. In the BOG, the Supreme Kai was still fused and it was the manga version that broke them up early.
- Still didn't effect the plot, other than showing how strong Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku was.
- What does that have to do with the plot?
- Dragging out the fight doesn't equal changing the story, which was my original point.

- Doesn't changed what happened and give context that wasn't in the movie.
- Still doesn't changed the overall plot other than give the Z-Fighters someone else to challenged them when they had no one in the movie.

- Frost was a cheat in all versions. All the anime did was expand on it. The end result was the same.
- Piccolo fought Frost in both versions and lost the same way.
- I already mentioned the Kaioken.

I think you missed my question: Other than the Kaioken and some other returning moves like the Final Flash, named another idea that was clearly Toei's that effected the overall story?

The Kaioken returning effect both the Hit fight and the fight with Merged Zamasu. What big effect did the things you name have on the overall story other than expanding on something that was in Toriyama's outline?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

How do you know these weren't parts of Toriyama's script that the manga didn't cut out to save time?

You'd have a point if this discussion were happening a week, or even a day ago. Right now, Toyotaro is taking his sweet time, and hasn't sped through a single important plot-point. While we can't know with absolute certainty the Toyotaro isn't cutting material, I could just as easily flip that around and ask you what your precedent is for bringing that into the discussion to begin with. It's filler masquerading as a talking point, it's an ego-saver.

I think you missed my question: Other than the Kaioken and some other returning moves like the Final Flash, named another idea that was clearly Toei's that effected the overall story?

The question is malformed. It's phrased in such a way where you can easily move the goalpost. If you want to ask it in a more honest way, have a go, because I answered your original question just fine.

[HeroR]

How do you know these weren't parts of Toriyama's script that the manga didn't cut out to save time?

You'd have a point if this discussion were happening a week, or even a day ago. Right now, Toyotaro is taking his sweet time, and hasn't sped through a single important plot-point. While we can't know with absolute certainty the Toyotaro isn't cutting material, I could just as easily flip that around and ask you what your precedent is for bringing that into the discussion to begin with. It's filler masquerading as a talking point, it's an ego-saver.

I didn't bring it up. A poster claimed that Toei added stuff that the time paradox, Goku fighting Zamasu, the second time machine, ect. I then asked what proof did they have that the manga didn't simply cut everything that has to do with the time paradox to save time? Toriyama obviously came up with the the Evil Containment Wave, so why wouldn't he come up with reusing Cell's time machine? What proof is there that it was Toei's idea or that they went out of they way to make a paradox?

The question is malformed. It's phrased in such a way where you can easily move the goalpost. If you want to ask it in a more honest way, have a go, because I answered your original question just fine.

No it isn't. I phased the question the way I did because we already know Toei put their own stuff into the story. However, I asked the question of what did Toei add specifically that altered the story. Like them adding a paradox, the second time machine, and Goku meeting Zamasu would be changing the story if it wasn't in Toriyama's outline.

You're the one who read it as 'any changed Toei made.

[Kogu 87]

Can't wait to read this chapter, i love toyotaro's art.

Glad they kept Ssj Rose in. Not sure why people are confused about the color of the transformation - i thought we always just assumed that the aura color belongs to gods/kais.

On another note, I'll definitely be purchasing the collected volumes as they come out.
Any date on the champa arc manga ?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Can't wait to read this chapter, i love toyotaro's art.

Glad they kept Ssj Rose in. Not sure why people are confused about the color of the transformation - i thought we always just assumed that the aura color belongs to gods/kais.

On another note, I'll definitely be purchasing the collected volumes as they come out.
Any date on the champa arc manga ?

The first collected volume of the DBS Viz manga will be out in May, and will cover BoG to the middle of the Goku vs. Frost fight. We probably won't have to wait long for Volume Two, which takes us from there to the beginning of Goku and Vegeta's trip to the future. After that, our releases will probably coincide fairly closely with the Japanese, which will be a little sooner than once a year.

[Totamo]

Anyway, I haven't read the full chapter yet but there is not anything i hate about it.

What I love:
Goku isn't stupid! Thank you so much.
Future Zamasu is more than just a meat shield. Having him a be a healer makes him far more more valuable and makes the duo more deadly.
Black being threatening again. It makes him look more like vegeta when he was on namek and told krillin to shoot him because dende could heal him. This makes black look smart because this is why he kept trunks around. Though, one could ask why didn't he ask fzamasu to kept hurting him well, nappa and vegeta didn't do it either so shoulder shrug.
No smoke bomb. Come on, guys. That was really stupid.
The Vegeta vs Black was Goku vs Blackin the anime and here it makes more sense that the beating he took from ssb vegeta gave him that power. It also makes vegeta look smarter here than goku did because the arc would have ended there. It also makes vegeta look like less of a hypocrite.
Trunks knows the solar flare because gohan taught him. I love it because it makes trunks look smart. This also isn't an asspull because krillin said it was a pretty easy technique to learn and gohan saw that move several times in his life.
They are retreating with a plan and its a pretty good one.


What caused headscratches:
Super Saiyan Rose explanation. Granted we never got one in the anime, so its better than nothing. I am just confused because super saiyan blue was said to be god ki + super saiyan. Zamasu already has god ki and he can go super saiyan because its goku's body, why is it different? Its not a different biology. Its still a saiyan's body. Zamasu is just the driver. It doesn't ruin it for me because confusion doesn't equal fustration for me.
Zenkai boost limit. I don't hate this explanation, because it's a good reason why all the saiyans weren't super duper powerful and why no one got after frieza. They wree also a plot device there so. I am just confuses because it makes zenkai boosts mental and physical. which would make sense if that was ever hinted but like i said, they were used to explain why goku got stronger after every fight and puts a cap on a potentially broken ability


Things that worry me:
The mafuba, ok I admit, I did accuse that of being a toei idea, but in my defense, I said they ruined it by making trunks learn it in 2 minutes and them forgetting the seal. All in all, it was about execution. Now if they have Goku used it and it fails, i will be ok with it, if zamasu breaks out of it because he is too strong i will be ok with it. Just have it make sense is all.
Trunks is in the future by himself. How is he going to fight balck and zamasu without his form. Does this mean he gets his form by fightning them or is this super siayn blue kaioken and anime exclusive or will trunks get an entirely new form that makes sense. Whats going to happen with him.
The rage boosts. No one has got them here. They didn't really make much sense in the anime but like i said its better than nothing. How will vegeta improve here?
Bulma. I don't think she will be useful in the manga but she did way too much in the anime to be a toei idea. The things she did will they not be included here? Because that was a lot of plot.


All in all, i really like what the manga did with some stuff, as things make a lot of sense here. there hasn't been nearly as many timescaling issues though they have been some and Goku isn't flanderized. My only real complaint about it is that it lacks a small bit of impact. Yeah things didn't make a lick of sense here and there or almost everywhere but even the most devoted super anime hater has to admit there was so high scenes in there. The manga is just here it definitely provides a more constructed plot but this may be the reason dragon ball is my favorite anime/manga despite there being far better written stories in this medium. It makes me merk out more than any other out there.

The manga is well drawn and has more consistent art and characterization, but when super is over will people really care about those things or do they only want the emotion they get like with ssbkaioken, black killing goku's family and trunks' final flash. I don't know

[SansrivaaL]

Toyo really handles Goku well, he aint a dumbass like his anime counterpart.
Best part is we have yet to see any stupid ass Mai throwing smoke/flash granades and it actually having effect, those parts were cringy in the anime.
Goku Black SSJ stomping SSJB Vegeta..... this is how it shoulda been, and later goes to SSJR to completely destroy him, first he shows he can handle him in SSJ and makes him feel more fcked up to going SSJR, sadistic mother fcker.
I'm quite sad that there was no Black and Zamasu telling Goku how they killed his family in another timeline causing Goku to snap, but I am glad that there was no indication of the fcking asspull that is SSJ bullshitrage.

Cant wait for the whole chapter.

[emperior]

From what I'm seeing, this chapter is very good.
I love the fact Trunks used the Taiyoken, he's also in danger now, I wonder if he will transform like in the anime.
I also like how Black is abusing Zenkais, how Zamasu burnt the Senzus and the fact Goku remembered the Mafuba.

If the manga kept the mystery around Black's true identity and Goku vs Black's paradox, I think I would prefer it a lot more.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

If the manga kept the mystery around Black's true identity and Goku vs Black's paradox, I think I would prefer it a lot more.

You say that, but we all pretty much knew who he was in the anime version. The mystery was a contrivance from square 1. Although it was a fun hook.

[Xeztin]

Did anyone else notice how SSJR Black has a lot more spiker, thicker, hair than his or any other's normal SSJ or SSJB forms? Also his hair is almost patterned like a rose.

[Pannaliciour]

- I like the ssj rose design its shows true power
- okey those senzu beans, can he just steal it with magic?
- read somewhere that Vegeta can't get near death powerup anymore because of his maxed out training? But black can, someone that can't even acces every cell in Goku's body?

-hope to see Vegeta's hyper bolic time chamber and the destruction of it + zeno.

[Gog]

If the manga kept the mystery around Black's true identity and Goku vs Black's paradox, I think I would prefer it a lot more.

You say that, but we all pretty much knew who he was in the anime version. The mystery was a contrivance from square 1. Although it was a fun hook.

Actually we did know who we he was, but we didn't know how he was. That was the fun part

[mute_proxy]

Some people are actually confused by SSRose being Black's SSBlue.. How on earth is that confusing? I thought it was clear from the very start

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Some people are actually confused by SSRose being Black's SSBlue.. How on earth is that confusing? I thought it was clear from the very start

According to Herms, (Zamasu?) suggests that Rose is the the color a Saiyan's hair turns once they surpass SSG, meaning that Blue is about equal to SSG. Toyotaro seems to have made a bit of a continuity boo-boo, but either way, in Toyo's version, Rose seems to be a transformation beyond SSB. This could mean that we'll see the transformation used later on by Goku and Vegeta, at least in the manga.

[mute_proxy]

Some people are actually confused by SSRose being Black's SSBlue.. How on earth is that confusing? I thought it was clear from the very start

According to Herms, (Zamasu?) suggests that Rose is the the color a Saiyan's hair turns once they surpass SSG, meaning that Blue is about equal to SSG. Toyotaro seems to have made a bit of a continuity boo-boo, but either way, in Toyo's version, Rose seems to be a transformation beyond SSB. This could mean that we'll see the transformation used later on by Goku and Vegeta, at least in the manga.

No. SSBlue is what surpasses SSGod.

"Zamasu guesses that when gods surpass Super Saiyan God they become pink rather than blue"

He speculates that a God (Zamasu in Goku's body) gets Rose hair after he surpasses SSGod rather than Blue, that's all. Not a regular saiyan but a god. That's the theory most people had when we were introduced to Rose too.

[Kanassa]

No smoke bomb. Come on, guys. That was really stupid.

Why is that stupid? Being powerful doesn't stop you from natural hazards like smoke getting in your lungs and gas fucking up your eyes.

[TheUltimateNinja]

SSBlue is clearly superior to SSGod given that Goku went Blue to break Hit's final timeskip since he couldn't do it with SSGod.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Mafubbaaaaaa!!! Knew that was too niche for a Toei thing.

Vegeta getting wrecked was glorious after all that wanking last week, infact because of that made it feel even better thanks Toyo

Easily the best chapter so far! Looks like he cut one trip as expected.

[Kogu 87]

Can't wait to read this chapter, i love toyotaro's art.

Glad they kept Ssj Rose in. Not sure why people are confused about the color of the transformation - i thought we always just assumed that the aura color belongs to gods/kais.

On another note, I'll definitely be purchasing the collected volumes as they come out.
Any date on the champa arc manga ?

The first collected volume of the DBS Viz manga will be out in May, and will cover BoG to the middle of the Goku vs. Frost fight. We probably won't have to wait long for Volume Two, which takes us from there to the beginning of Goku and Vegeta's trip to the future. After that, our releases will probably coincide fairly closely with the Japanese, which will be a little sooner than once a year.

Appreciate the info.
Still quite a few months away it seems !
Happy to hear that the first volume includes some of the universe 6 tournament chapters.

Cheers again.

[Nejishiki]

Nope, Zamasu became a Kaioshin the moment he killed Gowasu and we don't know precisely if Kais possess God Ki or not

Goku Black & Future Zamasu were never official Kaioshin. Their usage of the Potara are unauthorized given that they stole them. All Kaio(shin) are capable of feeling godly ki.