Unpopular DB opinions

[Rocketman]

I too did not like the rivalry, my main problem was that Vegeta defeated Goku in the first battle anyway!

Vegeta didn't care about the battle on Earth. The rivalry didn't start until Goku became the Super Saiyan and defeated Freeza.

[Kid Buu]

I too did not like the rivalry, my main problem was that Vegeta defeated Goku in the first battle anyway!

Vegeta didn't care about the battle on Earth. The rivalry didn't start until Goku became the Super Saiyan and defeated Freeza.

Also, since we are on the subject of Vegeta, I actually think (pride-issues aside) that he's a very intelligent fighter. I actually made a topic on the forum a few years ago asking the forum asking if people thought Vegeta was a fighting genius.

[Kamiccolo9]

I think that the humans are extremely overrated. Krillin is my second favorite character, and the strongest Earthling, but I don't have him any higher than Freeza's first form, at the highest. Uub, 17, and 18 are exceptions, but they're special cases.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think that the humans are extremely overrated. Krillin is my second favorite character, and the strongest Earthling, but I don't have him any higher than Freeza's first form, at the highest.

I think that the Earthlings (specifically Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha, I won't talk about Chaozu) are actually equally underrated. They were growing stronger at the same rate as Goku in the first part of the series (Goku was stronger only because he was more ahead than them due to special training programs that they followed after him), and during the Saiyan arc, they got around 8 times stronger in 1 year. Then Kuririn got his dormant power drawn out by Saichouro, and Yamcha & Tenshinhan got training from Kaio, and after that, all 3 of them did hard training for 3 years. I'm not saying that they got close to the base Saiyans, just that having them below First Form Freeza in Cell or Boo arc is too low IMO. I believe that in terms of battle powers, all 3 of them got close to 1 million.

[Kamiccolo9]

I think that the humans are extremely overrated. Krillin is my second favorite character, and the strongest Earthling, but I don't have him any higher than Freeza's first form, at the highest.

I think that the Earthlings (specifically Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha, I won't talk about Chaozu) are actually equally underrated. They were growing stronger at the same rate as Goku in the first part of the series (Goku was stronger only because he was more ahead than them due to special training programs that they followed after him), and during the Saiyan arc, they got around 8 times stronger in 1 year. Then Kuririn got his dormant power drawn out by Saichouro, and Yamcha & Tenshinhan got training from Kaio, and after that, all 3 of them did hard training for 3 years. I'm not saying that they got close to the base Saiyans, just that having them below First Form Freeza in Cell or Boo arc is too low IMO. I believe that in terms of battle powers, all 3 of them got close to 1 million.

Well, as I see it, there is nothing to indicate that they would be any higher. I have them above all the members of the Ginyu Force, which would make them some of the strongest fighters in the universe. I see Freeza-level power as unnatural, a level that no amount of training on its own can surpass. Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan only did it with zenkais and transformations, and Piccolo did it with fusion. Every other character in the series that is stronger than Freeza has gotten that way either by technology or magic. The only feats the humans have are Tien holding Cell, and him stopping Buu's attack. The first can be explained by the Shin Kikoho drawing on his life force, and being a "pushing" attack, rather than an explosive one, and the second by the fact that Buu didn't know he was there. I tend to take a minimalist view of battle powers in the series, and as I see no reason for them to be that strong, I have them weaker than First Form Freeza.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I just can't imagine Tenshinhan at around 30.000-300.000 pushing Second Form Cell with his Shin Kikoho, even if it's a technique that uses the user's life-force & it's much stronger than the user. Just compare Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho with #16's punch. #16 punched him in the face, and Cell didn't move an inch, while Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho could at least push him, which indicates that Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho (NOT Tenshinhan) had more force than #16's punch.

[Kamiccolo9]

I just can't imagine Tenshinhan at around 30.000-300.000 pushing Second Form Cell with his Shin Kikoho, even if it's a technique that uses the user's life-force & it's much stronger than the user. Just compare Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho with #16's punch. #16 punched him in the face, and Cell didn't move an inch, while Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho could at least push him, which indicates that Tenshinhan's Shin Kikoho (NOT Tenshinhan) had more force than #16's punch.

Well, I started a thread the other day where this was briefly discussed, and Godo had a theory I really liked.

You know, all those times Kuririn kicks ass while being so much weaker than his enemies?
Maybe he is using Yuuki, as an extra addition to his normal ki.

Maybe if this can be collected, courage of warriors lead to energy defeating ruffians, and in turn into justice and prosperity!!!


I mean, if we connect ki with the spirit, and courage lies within the spirit itself as another part, wouldn't they be able to mix and somehow be harnessed? If one part of the spirit can be used as ki blasts, it could be possible to use other types of ki too, right?

As an example, even though Tenshinhan isn't that strong compared by the SSJ standards, he manages to hold semi-Perfect Cell back.
Maybe his Kikoho isn't using just normal ki, but come of his courage as well, or even maybe other types of his ki as well, making it that strong (as well as dangerous, depleting his life force since it not only depletes ki, but also a lot of the rest of the spirit)?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

While I don't disagree with that, I still don't think that Kuririn or Tenshinhan got so huge boosts in their power.

[Kamiccolo9]

While I don't disagree with that, I still don't think that Kuririn or Tenshinhan got so huge boosts in their power.

Well, I see the Kikoho as a sort of "projectile kiai" attack, that just channels his energy in a huge push. It didn't seem to hurt Cell, it just held him for a minute.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That's what I'm talking about. Shin Kikoho could punch Cell, while #16's punch couldn't move him an inch.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, the Shin Kikoho is meant to push stuff. And, if I remember correctly, Cell was in the air when hit by it, as opposed to on the ground when hit by 16. Also, he saw the punch coming. He was blindsighted by Tien's attack.
Edit: The first Shin Kikoho knocked him into the ground. The successive one's hit him in midair.

[Ringworm128]

I actually like the fact that the Funimation dub for DBK isn't 100% accurate. I like how it stays true to the original version while still keeping a bit of the mondo coolness from the old dub. If the the Ocean dub of Kai ends up being some super accurate dub with a translation that's pretty much word for word with everything pronounced correctly I will still probably prefer Funimations dub.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Chaotzu is cool and should have gotten more screen time.

[KingofWisdom]

I enjoyed DBZ Kai's English dub for the Cell saga more than the Freeza saga. I was hoping Jeice would finally talk in a general American accent (cue Space Australia joke) and that Recoome would be recast to not have a herp derp voice. Despite how great Freeza himself turned out, it kinda hurt my overall appeal of that story segment. While in the Cell saga, I greatly enjoyed the little things. Such as 16 sounding more human, 18 being recast, and Clarke's improved take on Cell.

Worse yet, Jeice has a line using "mate" in the slang sense as you would to refer to a friend, which is mostly a UK or Australian sort of thing. The accent actually affects his script. The problem, for me, deals with consistency. If everyone else speaks in American English with an American accent, I don't see why Jeice is a special case (especially since it's not like he speaks with a Kansai dialect or some sort of differing speech pattern in the Japanese version). It doesn't come off to me as FUNimation trying to think logically and give him an accent because he learned English from a completely different planet (because he's the only alien who has a differing accent to the other characters), but rather I see it as them trying to "improve" the show.

[DBZ Mick]

I think the Saiyan-Freeza arcs with the Bardock special work as their own self-contained arc.

Yes, you miss out on some backstory of the characters etc but a lot of flashbacks plus dialogue explore that.

[Brodes]

Tenshinhan, being partially alien gets his own mini-zenakais, because all aliens do--just nowhere near as crazily as the Saiyans. That's how he could hold off Cell with the Shin Kikoho, that's how he didn't get his head kicked off when Buu kicked him. That's why he can hold his own against non SS Trunks in the tournament. That's why Earthlings are so weak, they're not part of the cool club.

I actually don't believe that but it's something someone suggested to me once (I think it was my partner when we were watching Kai, erm, less than sober), and has shown up in more than one crazy dream, and I could certainly be persuaded that it's possible.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

I have another one: Kaio is my favourite character.
I have absolutely no idea why, and no one else seems to like him all that much. He kinda turns into Mr. Exposition over time, but Goku's initial training with him before the Saiyans arrive is among my favourite material in the series. Also really looking forward to see how his interaction with Beers plays out in the new film.

Bubbles is awesome too!

[DBZ Mick]

I love his bad puns.

[Gozar]

That's what I'm talking about. Shin Kikoho could punch Cell, while #16's punch couldn't move him an inch.

I'm in agreement with you regarding the Humans Battle Powers. They are all very gifted and talented fighters who train very hard, especially Tenshinhan, whose entire life is dedicated to training. Considering how Tenshinhan was able to amp up his Battle Power from around 250 to around 1800 in the span of 11 months, well that's quite a large jump. Now, that's a 7.2x increase. Let's assume that he keeps up this same pace while training with Kaio-sama all the way through his battle against 2nd Form Cell. A little bit under 5 full years pass, that would put him at around 34,000,000. Now that seems like a bit of a large number, so we could probably lessen it somewhat considering that he is not receiving special training the entire time which would increase a normal strength multiplier. Personally, I don't find it too crazy to say that he made it to the 15-20 Million range. People tend to shy away from that because they don't want to place him above any of Freeza's forms, but that's what DragonBall is all about. Pushing past your limits and becoming something that people thought you could never be.

[Kamiccolo9]

That's what I'm talking about. Shin Kikoho could punch Cell, while #16's punch couldn't move him an inch.

I'm in agreement with you regarding the Humans Battle Powers. They are all very gifted and talented fighters who train very hard, especially Tenshinhan, whose entire life is dedicated to training. Considering how Tenshinhan was able to amp up his Battle Power from around 250 to around 1800 in the span of 11 months, well that's quite a large jump. Now, that's a 7.2x increase. Let's assume that he keeps up this same pace while training with Kaio-sama all the way through his battle against 2nd Form Cell. A little bit under 5 full years pass, that would put him at around 34,000,000. Now that seems like a bit of a large number, so we could probably lessen it somewhat considering that he is not receiving special training the entire time which would increase a normal strength multiplier. Personally, I don't find it too crazy to say that he made it to the 15-20 Million range.

The only problem with that is that he wouldn't be able to keep up the training he had at Kaio's. The gravity on Earth is lower, so he doesn't get that benefit. He doesn't have a strong sparring partner, only Chiaotzu.
And 15-20 million? Goku and Vegeta didn't get that high without abusing zenkais and kaio-ken. I doubt the base saiyans were that high until after their training in the Room of Space and Time.