Dragonball Movie Update! What is UP with this?

[djkalteraphine]

Man ! djkalteraphine you don't have to get all snippy about it !

Just "putting the facts out there."

[Kaboom]

Didn't mean anything by it, just putting the facts out there.

It isn't really fact though, since it's not confirmed, that it'll be the World Tournament.

I don't see what else it could be, though. Modified a little bit from what's in the series, maybe, but the signs still point to it.

The pic could be from a prelimanary match in a smaller ring, like from the anime.

The ring wasn't all that big in the early Tournaments. The prelims didn't have spectators, either.

[djkalteraphine]

Didn't mean anything by it, just putting the facts out there.

It isn't really fact though, since it's not confirmed, that it'll be the World Tournament.

I don't see what else it could be, though. Modified a little bit from what's in the series, maybe, but the signs still point to it.

I reckon it's just a regular ol' Tournament, to set up some story. Doesn't strike me as being "the greatest under the heavens" or that sort of thing. We'll see though!

[SSJ2bardock]

Didn't mean anything by it, just putting the facts out there.

It isn't really fact though, since it's not confirmed, that it'll be the World Tournament.

I don't see what else it could be, though. Modified a little bit from what's in the series, maybe, but the signs still point to it.

The pic could be from a prelimanary match in a smaller ring, like from the anime.

The ring wasn't all that big in the early Tournaments. The prelims didn't have spectators, either.

Well they haven't exactly made it like the show so far, so there could be an audience for the prelims.

[Xyex]

Why's everyone so worked up about Krillin, anyway? You didn't really expect them to go:

*movie starts*
Goku: See you tomorrow Krillin
Krillin: ....
Goku: Krillin?
Krillin: ....
Goku: KRILLIN!

And just have the audience guessing 1) who the hell Krillin is and 2) why the hell Goku cares, did you?

The plain and simple fact is Krillin does not fit in this movie. Including him now would require at least 45 minutes of character building before they could kill him. That means 45 minutes before the plot can kick in. 45 minutes of time they don't have to do other stuff in the movie. That just doesn't work.

It's much easier to swap in someone character building is not needed for. IE: a family relation. Such as what they did with Grandpa Gohan. They don't need to explain their friendship or build their relationship. It's his grandfather, all of that is implied just by being his grandfather.

Later on, when Goku meets with Roshi, Krillin could easily get a name drop as a current pupil of Roshi's who's off somewhere training at the moment. Or, he could pop-up at the end of the movie to get training from Roshi. Either way there's no reason he wont show up in the sequel. And since he wont be dying right away then they'll have two full movies to build up his relationship with Goku prior to the SSJ transformation.

As for Roshi being dead, uh... they're on a Dragonball hunt. Why wouldn't they wish him back like they did in the series? (Aside, perhaps, from not being sure they could get the actor back for the sequel.)

Also, the tournament in the movie is clearly the Budokai.

[Chrono Trigger]

The place where Mai and Chi Chi are fighting has to be a preliminary area because Goku is supposed to fight Piccolo at the tournament too and that place seems really small if the epic final fight is supposed to take place there. As for Krillin, I was surprised to find out how many people were upset about him not being in the movie. Its disappointing but it's not a deal breaker. If he doesn't show up in this movie then he'll be in the second or third one. (You know if they make it that far. )

[mrkaizoku]

Why's everyone so worked up about Krillin, anyway? You didn't really expect them to go:

And just have the audience guessing 1) who the hell Krillin is and 2) why the hell Goku cares, did you?

If the audience was wondering who the hell Kuririn was wouldn't they wonder the same thing about every other character in the movie?

The plain and simple fact is Krillin does not fit in this movie.

That is only one of the reasons I need to never see this. If they could just write out a very important character like Kuririn it lets me know right from the beginning what kind of adaptation this is going to be.

[Kendamu]

The plain and simple fact is Krillin does not fit in this movie. Including him now would require at least 45 minutes of character building before they could kill him. That means 45 minutes before the plot can kick in. 45 minutes of time they don't have to do other stuff in the movie. That just doesn't work.

Or, you could just do some "beginning of the movie inner monologue" stuff where it's like:

Goku: Hi. I'm Goku. I'm just your average High School student! 'Cept I seem to be really good at th' martial arts...

*pan to Krillin*

Goku:...and this is Krillin! He's my best friend! He also trains in the martial arts, though he goes to a dojo and I train under my Gram'pa.

Then, from there on, his presence during the adventure seems justified as they're best friends. Eventually, they both train under Mutenroshi. Toward the end of the film when our protagonists square off with Piccolo, Goku ends up having to face Piccolo alone while the others are preoccupied or on the sidelines. Whatever.

Anywho, in the meantime, Goku's getting banged up because Piccolo went Kyoshinshinkai on his ass and is using limb destruction techniques. Just before some sort of deciding blow, Krilling jumps in the way like he's Secret Service or something. He dies.

Enter: Pissed Goku. Piccolo just cackles some more and goes on about how Krillin just postponed Goku's defeat by a mere few moments. Piccolo gets ready to do some finishing beam attack thing to Goku when Goku then things to Kamehameha himself into the air. He then musters all of this strength into one fist and...

Falcon Punch!

In the end, they show the gang a year later after collecting the Dragonballs again and they wish Krillin back to life. In the next movie they fight the Saiyans and Krillin gets to live through it. In the third, they fight Freeza and he dies again. Goku goes Super Saiyan and...

No. No Falcon Punch. More of a weird angry blast thing and then Namek a'splodes.

[Onikage725]

I'm sorry, did I miss the Budokai in the Daimao Saga? No? Then who the hell cares? Did I miss some news that this movie was going to wrap up as the Ma Junior Saga? As far as I'm concerned, a budokai in this movie is a bonus, not a requirement from the source material. And this movie does have a budokai. Whether or not it is of the "tenkaichi" persuasion is up in the air, but is it really that big of a deal? No one seems to care that "strongest under the heavens" was changed to "world." Is it really that important if the film use the word "champions" instead? If you ask me, that title would be more thematically keeping with the japanese name anyway (champion implying strength whereas "world" as a stand alone word is a little vague in this regard).

And I second what Xyex said, and that's coming from a big Kuririn fan. They have characters from the earlier days who are in the movie that can fit the bill of best bud or emotional death. Honestly, introducing Kuririn and Yamcha at the same time would be redundant and would lead to pacing more on the Mystery Men side of things (which really could have been 30-45 minutes shorter). And they probably want Yamcha either because he was chronologically first or for the love angle with Bulma.

Or, you could just do some "beginning of the movie inner monologue" stuff where it's like:

Goku: Hi. I'm Goku. I'm just your average High School student! 'Cept I seem to be really good at th' martial arts...

*pan to Krillin*

Goku:...and this is Krillin! He's my best friend! He also trains in the martial arts, though he goes to a dojo and I train under my Gram'pa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xppjk5kDqVg

Forgive the quality. I made it a loooong time ao. It's just the first thing I thought of when reading your post :p

[Kunzait_83]

No one seems to care that "strongest under the heavens" was changed to "world." Is it really that important if the film use the word "champions" instead? If you ask me, that title would be more thematically keeping with the japanese name anyway (champion implying strength whereas "world" as a stand alone word is a little vague in this regard).

I'm sorry, but this reminded me of the irony of how many dub-centric fans (in general) are getting pissy that changes are being made to the source material for this movie.

Far as I'm concerned, if future sequels do something like say, change Mr.Satan/Hercule's name to Bob Jones or what have you, dub fans who yell at Japanese fans to stop "whining" about various changes are in absolutely no position to bitch whatsoever.

[Raki]

No one seems to care that "strongest under the heavens" was changed to "world." Is it really that important if the film use the word "champions" instead? If you ask me, that title would be more thematically keeping with the japanese name anyway (champion implying strength whereas "world" as a stand alone word is a little vague in this regard).

I'm sorry, but this reminded me of the irony of how many dub-centric fans (in general) are getting pissy that changes are being made to the source material for this movie.

Far as I'm concerned, if future sequels do something like say, change Mr.Satan/Hercule's name to Bob Jones or what have you, dub fans who yell at Japanese fans to stop "whining" about various changes are in absolutely no position to bitch whatsoever.

Now they will see what we've been complaining about for some time now.

[JulieYBM]

No one seems to care that "strongest under the heavens" was changed to "world." Is it really that important if the film use the word "champions" instead? If you ask me, that title would be more thematically keeping with the japanese name anyway (champion implying strength whereas "world" as a stand alone word is a little vague in this regard).

I'm sorry, but this reminded me of the irony of how many dub-centric fans (in general) are getting pissy that changes are being made to the source material for this movie.

Far as I'm concerned, if future sequels do something like say, change Mr.Satan/Hercule's name to Bob Jones or what have you, dub fans who yell at Japanese fans to stop "whining" about various changes are in absolutely no position to bitch whatsoever.

Now they will see what we've been complaining about for some time now.

And by they, you mean the extreamists, not those of us who would prefer the original terms, names, and faithful dialogue in addition to the music, but with FUNimation's cast and all.

Y'know what's funny is the final attack Gokû makes on Daimaô is called 'Penetration' in the English Sparking METEOR. Just think of the complaints the film would have.

EDIT: Fixed spelling mistake.

[SSJ2bardock]

Honestly, I couldn't care less which names or terms they use.

[Xyex]

If the audience was wondering who the hell Kuririn was wouldn't they wonder the same thing about every other character in the movie?

....

Question. Did you read my post before replying?

Yes, I'm being serious.

There is a VAST difference between watching a character on the screen for over an hour and seeing someone for 5 minutes before they die. If the manga killed Bulma in the first chapter and then had Goku pissed off that his friend was dead you'd be a little lost, no? It's the same with a moive. You can not kill a character in under 60 minutes and expect the audience to give shit.

That is only one of the reasons I need to never see this. If they could just write out a very important character like Kuririn it lets me know right from the beginning what kind of adaptation this is going to be.

What the hell? Very important character? How? Krillin does one thing in the King Piccolo saga. He dies. How, exactly, is he important? Yeah, sure, it's important in the manga because you've got years of background of Goku and Krillin being best friends. In the movie you've got 15 minutes, at best.

Or, you could just do some "beginning of the movie inner monologue" stuff where it's like:

Goku: Hi. I'm Goku. I'm just your average High School student! 'Cept I seem to be really good at th' martial arts...

*pan to Krillin*

Goku:...and this is Krillin! He's my best friend! He also trains in the martial arts, though he goes to a dojo and I train under my Gram'pa.

Laaaaaaaaaaaaame.

30 second exposition does not a bond make. You need to display the bond and you can not do that in 15 minutes or less and expect the audience to give a shit.

Eventually, they both train under Mutenroshi. Toward the end of the film when our protagonists square off with Piccolo, Goku ends up having to face Piccolo alone while the others are preoccupied or on the sidelines. Whatever.

Anywho, in the meantime, Goku's getting banged up because Piccolo went Kyoshinshinkai on his ass and is using limb destruction techniques. Just before some sort of deciding blow, Krilling jumps in the way like he's Secret Service or something. He dies.

Alright. But, why is Goku even running into Piccolo? If Krillin's not dead why is Goku out there getting in Piccolo's way?

Enter: Pissed Goku. Piccolo just cackles some more and goes on about how Krillin just postponed Goku's defeat by a mere few moments. Piccolo gets ready to do some finishing beam attack thing to Goku when Goku then things to Kamehameha himself into the air. He then musters all of this strength into one fist and...

In the end, they show the gang a year later after collecting the Dragonballs again and they wish Krillin back to life. In the next movie they fight the Saiyans and Krillin gets to live through it. In the third, they fight Freeza and he dies again. Goku goes Super Saiyan and...

No. No Falcon Punch. More of a weird angry blast thing and then Namek a'splodes.

Yeah... that'd be even worse than replacing Master Roshi with Bulma. >>

[Kunzait_83]

And by they, you mean the extreamists, not those of us who would prefer the original terms, names, and faithful dialogue in addition to the music, but with FUNimation's cast and all.

I was thinking specifically of those who tend to try and shout down any and all criticisms of the FUNi dub’s alterations (and no not just names and terms, but also major changes in storyline and character portrayals as well) with one or more of the following old chestnuts;

“Why cares? Get a life! It’s just a cartoon!”

“Think of all the new people the English dub has introduced to the series!”

“The average person would just get turned off by too much Japanese shit.”

And so on and so forth.

Now though, when I look around on other message boards, blogs, youtube comments, etc. I see a lot the same folks who were long perfectly apt to flog out any of the above time worn bon motts now doubling back on themselves and throwing a shit fit over stuff that the live action movie is changing.

My point is that the more... "agressive" dub fans can’t have it both ways. They can’t get mad at certain people for making a fuss over one set of changes in one adaptation only to go and wig out themselves over another set in a different adaptation.

The FUNimation version, regardless of how fond some people are or aren’t towards it, is itself a grossly unfaithful revision of an original work. If you’re not the sort of person who’s so blindly loyal to that revision that you’ll bend to ludicrous degrees of pretzel logic to deny it as being such, then no you’re not the sort of fan I’m talking about.

I’m commenting specifically on the hypocrisy of folks who see absolutely zero problems with FUNimation making sweeping, narrative altering changes to how an entire set of characters like the Saiya-jin are portrayed (having them be an unwitting, tragically heroic race that was duped by Freeza into being his hired mass murderers rather than simply being a brutal and vicious race of irredeemable barbarians who always simply got off on killing things and all Freeza did was turn them loose on the whole galaxy) to the point where they get pissy anytime someone tries to hold FUNimation to task for it, and yet will throw a fanboy tantrum themselves because Chow Yun Fat’s Roshi isn’t bald and doesn’t have a long white beard.

Daizex doesn’t house a great deal of such people (one reason among many that I like coming here), as even the most ardent fans of the FUNimation dub found here are perfectly willing to concede that a lot of their script and character/storyline alterations are indeed utterly pointless and do more harm than good to the integrity of the original work… or at the very least that the differences are indeed present and that they are substantial.

This is FAR more than can be said for much of the rest of the interwebs. There are giant swathes of FUNimation fans out there who have absolutely zero respect for the original manga, its author, or its cultural roots. In more extreme cases there are even those who refuse to accept that DBZ was even created in Japan in the first place and that it is no older than 1998 when it first debuted on Toonami, and that Cartoon Network and FUNimation are the “true” creators of the show.

Don’t laugh. These kinds of people DO exist, and there are more of them than you might imagine. And they’re not just arbitrary, vaguely defined online ciphers that I’m trying to set up as some sort of strawman; Onikage and I have met and talked to such folks IRL.

So no, I’m not talking about Joe Schmoe who simply digs Chris Sabat’s grunty vocals but is otherwise not an ignorant jackass that blindly defends a heavily fucked around with version of the anime as some sort of sacred holy writ.

Personally I’m waiting to see if it gets to the point where people who became Dragon Ball fans via the live action movie respond to the above described rabid FUNimation fanboys decrying the liberties taken with the live action movie with one or more of the following;

“Who cares? It’s just a movie! Get a life!”

“Think of all the new people the movie has introduced to the series!”

“The average person would just get turned off by too much goofy cartoon shit.”

See how incredibly easy it is to retreat behind such go-to lines?

Ultimately they're just limp excuses to free the person using them of having to come up with some sort of reasoned argument for their views, and it takes a minimum of thought to alternate the scenario and make those justifications seem applicable to just about any dicked around with adaptation of a previous work, regardless of how pointless or inane the changes are.

All I’m really trying to say is that a lot of the more weak-ass defenses of FUNimation’s creative liberties are now being exposed as the feeble non-arguments that they ultimately are by way of this movie coming about and putting said FUNimation fans in the same position that a lot of old time fans of the Japanese version like myself have been in for more than a decade.

And thus far, most of them appear to be reacting almost no differently from how any number of much older so-called "weaboo Japanophile fanboys" did back in the mid-late 90's, in spite of all their bullshit "openness" to change back when it only applied to an anime that they were only recently exposed to at the time in the first place.

A lot of people that have made a lot of smug comments over the years toward those annoyed by alteration made via the dub now have to put their money where their mouth is with the oncoming of this movie, and they mostly seem to be failing miserably at it.

You’ll pardon me for finding that reversal to be ironically humorous and karmic.

[JulieYBM]

I hear you brother. It's those sort of dub fans that make the moderates like me (who would easily admit FUNimation's changes are pretty stupid) but still tend to just want to watch the show in English with proper scripts and stuff.

It is funny though, if not also annoying.

[Raki]

I hear you brother. It's those sort of dub fans that make the moderates like me (who would easily admit FUNimation's changes are pretty stupid) but still tend to just want to watch the show in English with proper scripts and stuff.

It is funny though, if not also annoying.

I'm one that would accept an accurate dub with Funi's voices as well, but don't ever see it happening. Funi is almost proud of their DBZ work, and they don't care on improving.

[SSJ2bardock]

@Kunzait

I wan't to be clear on this that I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm merely trying to show what some dub fans point of view may be. Maybe some dub fans are so aggressive because it seems to them that all Japanese fans are out to get them and they constantly bash the dub. The dub has cheesy lines, an altered script, characters that act completely different from their original Japanese counterparts, and blatant censoring of important events, but that has already been established and we all know that; So why keep ripping it when you don't have to?

Of course this doesn't apply to the type of fans you mentioned in your post, there's simply no saving them from their own ignorance.

[mrkaizoku]

....
Question. Did you read my post before replying?

Yes, I'm being serious.

Yes I absolutely did read your post. The entire thing.

There is a VAST difference between watching a character on the screen for over an hour and seeing someone for 5 minutes before they die. If the manga killed Bulma in the first chapter and then had Goku pissed off that his friend was dead you'd be a little lost, no? It's the same with a moive. You can not kill a character in under 60 minutes and expect the audience to give shit.

I agree completely with this statement.

What the hell? Very important character? How? Krillin does one thing in the King Piccolo saga. He dies. How, exactly, is he important? Yeah, sure, it's important in the manga because you've got years of background of Goku and Krillin being best friends. In the movie you've got 15 minutes, at best.

You're kind of double talking here. First you say Kuririn isn't an important character then in the same breath you say that he is important. Kuririn is a very important character especially during this arc! Kuririn's shocking death is what caused Goku to come up against Daimao in the first place. Without Kuririn there is no hope for the movie being a faithful adaptation.

Kuririn should have been written into this movie.

I could see arguing about Yamcha being in the movie. He was barley involved during the Daimao arc. Although that really was only due to his injury, but still. Or hell even Bulma. What significant contribution did she make to the Daimao saga?

This is the thing I hate about most movie adaptations. Something important is almost always left out. A certain story element might be of extreme importance to you and might be inconsequential to someone else and vice-versa. Granted, it is a slippery slope that even the best have a hard time getting right.

[JAPPO]

My 2 cents from what I've seen on this board lately.

This isn't an adaptation of JUST the King Piccolo saga. It's a condensed version of the entire original Dragonball series. OF COURSE some characters are going to be removed, and of course the plot is going to be shortened, but what the hell did you expect? a 10 hour movie?

Like someone else previously said, Krillin isn't important in this adaptation for THIS movie, as it would take far too long to establish how close he is to Goku and why audiences should give a shit when he dies.

I frankly don't see the big deal. Am I the only one who doesn't care about Krillin? I think Grandpa Gohan dying by the evil hand of King Piccolo is reason enough for Goku to be pissed off and to avenge his grandfather by killing Piccolo. Krillin isn't needed for that reason alone, though there are other reasons too (he would look ridiculous, too much time, he's a comic relief character, etc.)

You're right this isn't 100% faithful and I thank God it isn't. You have no idea how ridiculous it would look in live-action if it was 100% faithful, and you could say they should go the Speed Racer route like Sean Schemmel said, but that thing FLOPPED miserably, and I hated it to be honest. There is a point where being too faithful in a live-action adaptation is a bad thing. I can't imagine talking animals in this movie without looking totally ridiculous.

Personally I'm all for a realer, grittier version of the story. I've already SEEN the original many times and I don't need to see it again! If you don't like it, fine, then go back and watch the original. No one is forcing you to pay attention to this movie. You people think FOX owes you something? No, they don't. They could have been 0% faithful if they really wanted to, but to their credit they are making this a good adaptation, and Japan seems thrilled to have it. Read any magazines there. They proudly proclaim that Japan gets the movie before anywhere in the world. Pretty damn nice of them, and to FOX for giving Japan a major blockbuster 1 month before the U.S.

You can't base a movie on a couple of pics, but I actually loved most of the pics released so far. Wait until you actually see the move before you judge it (what a shocking concept!)

And if you don't want to see it, fine! Go back to watching re-runs. You don't need to pay attention to it, it's not like "The Dark Knight" where you can't turn on the TV without hearing about it. It's quite the opposite.

The original is always there, and if you complain that the live-action movie will "ruin the original" then frankly you need to get outside more.