"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[dbgtFO]

Or the manga didn't rush things, but the anime made these additions.

Which you have no way to prove. The things that people thought were 'Toei's additions' like the Evil Containment Wave turned out not to be the case. Plus, we have seen the manga rushed plot points.

Neither do you, so don't post nonsense like it was proven the manga rushed things.

[HeroR]

There's nothing at all rushed about this arc. "Hurr it's not in the anime so it's rushed". No. This is the first arc that Toyo has actually properly paced like a legit manga instead of an abridged and rushed version of the anime

Putting Black's entire origins into one info dump is rushed. Not to mention all the contrived coincidences. Trunks coming back on the same day that Supreme Kai happened to be visiting Zamasu and telling him about Majin Buu years after his death. Which make Trunks' arrival just in time for Beerus to learn about Zamasu and stop him. If Trunks just came a day early or a day late, none of these pieces would have fit.

Just because this arc isn't as rushed as the last few doesn't mean it isn't rush, even if we don't compare it to the anime.

Neither do you, so don't post nonsense like it was proven the manga rushed things.

I have already stated several times why this arc is rushed, which no one has really disagreed with other than, 'well, it isn't as rushed as the last arcs'.

[Noah]

Hope Vegetto is a Toei thing, and they manage to defeat Merged Zamasu by themselfs (no motherf****** Zeno) or maybe Gogeta

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Or the manga didn't rush things, but the anime made these additions.

Which you have no way to prove. The things that people thought were 'Toei's additions' like the Evil Containment Wave turned out not to be the case. Plus, we have seen the manga rushed plot points.

Except that Toyotaro said that whatever Toriyama writes in his outline stays in the manga.

[Basako]

There's nothing at all rushed about this arc. "Hurr it's not in the anime so it's rushed". No. This is the first arc that Toyo has actually properly paced like a legit manga instead of an abridged and rushed version of the anime

Putting Black's entire origins into one info dump is rushed. Not to mention all the contrived coincidences. Trunks coming back on the same day that Supreme Kai happened to be visiting Zamasu and telling him about Majin Buu years after his death. Which make Trunks' arrival just in time for Beerus to learn about Zamasu and stop him. If Trunks just came a day early or a day late, none of these pieces would have fit.

Just because this arc isn't as rushed as the last few doesn't mean it isn't rush, even if we don't compare it to the anime.

Neither do you, so don't post nonsense like it was proven the manga rushed things.

I have already stated several times why this arc is rushed, which no one has really disagreed with other than, 'well, it isn't as rushed as the last arcs'.

That no one has really disagreed that this arc is rushed? Really? Me, we have been argueing about this minutes ago. Yeah, I see, you just close your eyes and sing lalala. Ok.

And asking for the drafts like evidence? Look, we don't have them, neither do you. But we do know Toei adds things, we have precedents like the Ginyu thing in the RoF arc, that was obviously an addition comparing to the movie. And we have had the first time Black followed Trunks to the other timeline, which created an unnecessary paradox about the origin of Black, making it impossible, and also didn't respect how the rings work, there is no any reason for him to have been pulled back from the other timeline. So, yes, I think Toei added that, I can't prove it, but you can't prove your point either. The manga, at least we know it's checked by Toriyama every month, we can't say that about the anime.

[TheMikado]

There's nothing at all rushed about this arc. "Hurr it's not in the anime so it's rushed". No. This is the first arc that Toyo has actually properly paced like a legit manga instead of an abridged and rushed version of the anime

Putting Black's entire origins into one info dump is rushed. Not to mention all the contrived coincidences. Trunks coming back on the same day that Supreme Kai happened to be visiting Zamasu and telling him about Majin Buu years after his death. Which make Trunks' arrival just in time for Beerus to learn about Zamasu and stop him. If Trunks just came a day early or a day late, none of these pieces would have fit.

Just because this arc isn't as rushed as the last few doesn't mean it isn't rush, even if we don't compare it to the anime.

Neither do you, so don't post nonsense like it was proven the manga rushed things.

I have already stated several times why this arc is rushed, which no one has really disagreed with other than, 'well, it isn't as rushed as the last arcs'.

Well in the anime if Trunks hadn't of come back Black wouldn't exist at all,

[HeroR]

Except that Toyotaro said that whatever Toriyama writes in his outline stays in the manga.

The manga also adds stuff.

There's nothing at all rushed about this arc. "Hurr it's not in the anime so it's rushed". No. This is the first arc that Toyo has actually properly paced like a legit manga instead of an abridged and rushed version of the anime

Putting Black's entire origins into one info dump is rushed. Not to mention all the contrived coincidences. Trunks coming back on the same day that Supreme Kai happened to be visiting Zamasu and telling him about Majin Buu years after his death. Which make Trunks' arrival just in time for Beerus to learn about Zamasu and stop him. If Trunks just came a day early or a day late, none of these pieces would have fit.

Just because this arc isn't as rushed as the last few doesn't mean it isn't rush, even if we don't compare it to the anime.

Neither do you, so don't post nonsense like it was proven the manga rushed things.

I have already stated several times why this arc is rushed, which no one has really disagreed with other than, 'well, it isn't as rushed as the last arcs'.

That no one has really disagreed that this arc is rushed? Really? Me, we have been argueing about this minutes ago. Yeah, I see, you just close your eyes and sing lalala. Ok.

And asking for the drafts like evidence? Look, we don't have them, neither do you. But we do know Toei adds things, we have precedents like the Ginyu thing in the RoF arc, that was obviously an addition comparing to the movie. And we have had the first time Black followed Trunks to the other timeline, which created an unnecessary paradox about the origin of Black, making it impossible, and also didn't respect how the rings work, there is no any reason for him to have been pulled back from the other timeline. So, yes, I think Toei added that, I can't prove it, but you can't prove your point either. The manga, at least we know it's checked by Toriyama every month, we can't say that about the anime.

There is no way to disagree that parts of the arc was rushed to save time. Black's origins and Zamasu becoming obsessed with Goku's body are just the most obvious examples.

You can't say that Toei added that since you're assuming that the manga didn't cut it to save time and just have Trunks going back to the past just in time to stop Zamasu from killing Gowasu. Toei did respect how the Time Rings work since it was stated that the only reason Black went to the past was because of the time rift left by Trunks' Time Machine. It wouldn't have happened under normal conditions as it was stated several times. On top of that, we have Toriyama saying that thing will get confusing with time changing, which supports that Toei didn't just make up a paradox just because they could.

[Basako]

Except that Toyotaro said that whatever Toriyama writes in his outline stays in the manga.

The manga also adds stuff.

It does add stuff, but doesn't take plot away. Toriyama checks it anyway, so we know he is fine with whatever Toyotaro has added or he would have told him not too.

[HeroR]

It does add stuff, but doesn't take plot away. Toriyama checks it anyway, so we know he is fine with whatever Toyotaro has added or he would have told him not too.

Toyotaro stated that Toriyama doesn't care about the plot, only the gags.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Except that Toyotaro said that whatever Toriyama writes in his outline stays in the manga.

The manga also adds stuff.

What's your point?

Toyotaro stated that Toriyama doesn't care about the plot, only the gags.

No, he said that he cares more about the gags than the plot. That doesn't mean that he doesn't care about the plot at all.

[Basako]

It does add stuff, but doesn't take plot away. Toriyama checks it anyway, so we know he is fine with whatever Toyotaro has added or he would have told him not too.

Toyotaro stated that Toriyama doesn't care about the plot, only the gags.

Except that Toyotaro said that whatever Toriyama writes in his outline stays in the manga.

The manga also adds stuff.

Putting Black's entire origins into one info dump is rushed. Not to mention all the contrived coincidences. Trunks coming back on the same day that Supreme Kai happened to be visiting Zamasu and telling him about Majin Buu years after his death. Which make Trunks' arrival just in time for Beerus to learn about Zamasu and stop him. If Trunks just came a day early or a day late, none of these pieces would have fit.

Just because this arc isn't as rushed as the last few doesn't mean it isn't rush, even if we don't compare it to the anime.



I have already stated several times why this arc is rushed, which no one has really disagreed with other than, 'well, it isn't as rushed as the last arcs'.

That no one has really disagreed that this arc is rushed? Really? Me, we have been argueing about this minutes ago. Yeah, I see, you just close your eyes and sing lalala. Ok.

And asking for the drafts like evidence? Look, we don't have them, neither do you. But we do know Toei adds things, we have precedents like the Ginyu thing in the RoF arc, that was obviously an addition comparing to the movie. And we have had the first time Black followed Trunks to the other timeline, which created an unnecessary paradox about the origin of Black, making it impossible, and also didn't respect how the rings work, there is no any reason for him to have been pulled back from the other timeline. So, yes, I think Toei added that, I can't prove it, but you can't prove your point either. The manga, at least we know it's checked by Toriyama every month, we can't say that about the anime.

There is no way to disagree that parts of the arc was rushed to save time. Black's origins and Zamasu becoming obsessed with Goku's body are just the most obvious examples.

You can't say that Toei added that since you're assuming that the manga didn't cut it to save time and just have Trunks going back to the past just in time to stop Zamasu from killing Gowasu. Toei did respect how the Time Rings work since it was stated that the only reason Black went to the past was because of the time rift left by Trunks' Time Machine. It wouldn't have happened under normal conditions as it was stated several times. On top of that, we have Toriyama saying that thing will get confusing with time changing, which supports that Toei didn't just make up a paradox just because they could.

Except I completely disagree. It has not been rushed at all, even some things have been explained in more detail than the anime and took the time to pause the plot with something like a cart race. Fights aren't rushed either, look the last two chapters. Zamasu's obsession with Goku is an only anime thing, in the manga, he wants his body because it serves him for his purposes. He clearly dislikes that a mortal can be so powerfull, but he is not obsessed with him. Blacks character is developed since chapter 14 and finally the identity revealed in chapter 18. The identity is also revealed in one episode of the anime, Black just tells them who he is, isn't that rushed too? Yeah. Toriyama saying things would get confusing doesn't support your point at all. According to Toei, Trunks escaping from Black created Black, this wasn't in the manga for a reason, doesn't make any sense.

[Grimlock]

It seems that when Toyotaro sends his stuff to Toriyama, only preview designs are shown, and then Toriyama corrects what needs to be corrected, like a Super Dragon Ball being bigger than what Toyotaro did, or the arena. But never a dialogue or story-related stuff.

[Basako]

It does add stuff, but doesn't take plot away. Toriyama checks it anyway, so we know he is fine with whatever Toyotaro has added or he would have told him not too.

Toyotaro stated that Toriyama doesn't care about the plot, only the gags.

No, he said he is more particular about the gags, that this surprissed him, not that he doesn't care about the plot.

"I thought Toriyama would be more particular about the story, but he's actually more particular about the gags and the comedic moments! I can tell that he really loves those parts."

Also.

"Every month, I'll create a storyboard for him to review, and then he'll give me input and suggest changes. When I'm working with Toriyama, there are many portions he gives me props for coming up with, but he is very particular about other things and always points them out for me to correct. And when he corrects me, I think “Wow, I guess I don't completely understand the way he looks at things,” so his corrections and feedback are incredibly accurate and helpful. It's a lot of fun to be able to get closer to his way of thinking."

[Doctor.]

It does add stuff, but doesn't take plot away. Toriyama checks it anyway, so we know he is fine with whatever Toyotaro has added or he would have told him not too.

Toyotaro stated that Toriyama doesn't care about the plot, only the gags.

Except that Toyotaro said that whatever Toriyama writes in his outline stays in the manga.

The manga also adds stuff.

That no one has really disagreed that this arc is rushed? Really? Me, we have been argueing about this minutes ago. Yeah, I see, you just close your eyes and sing lalala. Ok.

And asking for the drafts like evidence? Look, we don't have them, neither do you. But we do know Toei adds things, we have precedents like the Ginyu thing in the RoF arc, that was obviously an addition comparing to the movie. And we have had the first time Black followed Trunks to the other timeline, which created an unnecessary paradox about the origin of Black, making it impossible, and also didn't respect how the rings work, there is no any reason for him to have been pulled back from the other timeline. So, yes, I think Toei added that, I can't prove it, but you can't prove your point either. The manga, at least we know it's checked by Toriyama every month, we can't say that about the anime.

There is no way to disagree that parts of the arc was rushed to save time. Black's origins and Zamasu becoming obsessed with Goku's body are just the most obvious examples.

You can't say that Toei added that since you're assuming that the manga didn't cut it to save time and just have Trunks going back to the past just in time to stop Zamasu from killing Gowasu. Toei did respect how the Time Rings work since it was stated that the only reason Black went to the past was because of the time rift left by Trunks' Time Machine. It wouldn't have happened under normal conditions as it was stated several times. On top of that, we have Toriyama saying that thing will get confusing with time changing, which supports that Toei didn't just make up a paradox just because they could.

Except I completely disagree. It has not been rushed at all, even some things have been explained in more detail than the anime and took the time to pause the plot with something like a cart race. Fights aren't rushed either, look the last two chapters. Zamasu's obsession with Goku is an only anime thing, in the manga, he wants his body because it serves him for his purposes. He clearly dislikes that a mortal can be so powerfull, but he is not obsessed with him. Blacks character is developed since chapter 14 and finally the identity revealed in chapter 18. The identity is also revealed in one episode of the anime, Black just tells them who he is, isn't that rushed too? Yeah. Toriyama saying things would get confusing doesn't support your point at all. According to Toei, Trunks escaping from Black created Black, this wasn't in the manga for a reason, doesn't make any sense.

If Zamasu has no obsession over Goku, then stealing his body is a moronic decision, as he could have tried to steal Vegeta's, Beerus', Whis', Hit's or even the Omni-King. At least in the anime you could excuse this by saying he was blinded by his hate.

[Basako]

Toyotaro stated that Toriyama doesn't care about the plot, only the gags.

The manga also adds stuff.



There is no way to disagree that parts of the arc was rushed to save time. Black's origins and Zamasu becoming obsessed with Goku's body are just the most obvious examples.

You can't say that Toei added that since you're assuming that the manga didn't cut it to save time and just have Trunks going back to the past just in time to stop Zamasu from killing Gowasu. Toei did respect how the Time Rings work since it was stated that the only reason Black went to the past was because of the time rift left by Trunks' Time Machine. It wouldn't have happened under normal conditions as it was stated several times. On top of that, we have Toriyama saying that thing will get confusing with time changing, which supports that Toei didn't just make up a paradox just because they could.

Except I completely disagree. It has not been rushed at all, even some things have been explained in more detail than the anime and took the time to pause the plot with something like a cart race. Fights aren't rushed either, look the last two chapters. Zamasu's obsession with Goku is an only anime thing, in the manga, he wants his body because it serves him for his purposes. He clearly dislikes that a mortal can be so powerfull, but he is not obsessed with him. Blacks character is developed since chapter 14 and finally the identity revealed in chapter 18. The identity is also revealed in one episode of the anime, Black just tells them who he is, isn't that rushed too? Yeah. Toriyama saying things would get confusing doesn't support your point at all. According to Toei, Trunks escaping from Black created Black, this wasn't in the manga for a reason, doesn't make any sense.

If Zamasu has no obsession over Goku, then stealing his body is a moronic decision, as he could have tried to steal Vegeta's, Beerus', Whis', Hit's or even the Omni-King. At least in the anime you could excuse this by saying he was blinded by his hate.

Zamasu had no obssession with Goku in the manga, he knew about he defeated Boo, researched about him in Godtube, which lead also to the dragon balls and decided to take his body. I don't deny he had more reasons to take his body in the anime, but that comes along with a time paradox that makes the origin of Black impossible, so I go with the manga version by far.

[TheMikado]

Except that Toyotaro said that whatever Toriyama writes in his outline stays in the manga.

The manga also adds stuff.

Putting Black's entire origins into one info dump is rushed. Not to mention all the contrived coincidences. Trunks coming back on the same day that Supreme Kai happened to be visiting Zamasu and telling him about Majin Buu years after his death. Which make Trunks' arrival just in time for Beerus to learn about Zamasu and stop him. If Trunks just came a day early or a day late, none of these pieces would have fit.

Just because this arc isn't as rushed as the last few doesn't mean it isn't rush, even if we don't compare it to the anime.



I have already stated several times why this arc is rushed, which no one has really disagreed with other than, 'well, it isn't as rushed as the last arcs'.

That no one has really disagreed that this arc is rushed? Really? Me, we have been argueing about this minutes ago. Yeah, I see, you just close your eyes and sing lalala. Ok.

And asking for the drafts like evidence? Look, we don't have them, neither do you. But we do know Toei adds things, we have precedents like the Ginyu thing in the RoF arc, that was obviously an addition comparing to the movie. And we have had the first time Black followed Trunks to the other timeline, which created an unnecessary paradox about the origin of Black, making it impossible, and also didn't respect how the rings work, there is no any reason for him to have been pulled back from the other timeline. So, yes, I think Toei added that, I can't prove it, but you can't prove your point either. The manga, at least we know it's checked by Toriyama every month, we can't say that about the anime.

There is no way to disagree that parts of the arc was rushed to save time. Black's origins and Zamasu becoming obsessed with Goku's body are just the most obvious examples.

You can't say that Toei added that since you're assuming that the manga didn't cut it to save time and just have Trunks going back to the past just in time to stop Zamasu from killing Gowasu. Toei did respect how the Time Rings work since it was stated that the only reason Black went to the past was because of the time rift left by Trunks' Time Machine. It wouldn't have happened under normal conditions as it was stated several times. On top of that, we have Toriyama saying that thing will get confusing with time changing, which supports that Toei didn't just make up a paradox just because they could.

This is a bizarre argument.

You're saying the manga is rushed because they cut things out or condensed them.
You saying his argument is incorrect because he's assuming the manga didn't cut anything and that he cant prove Toei added anything.
But you can't prove the manga actually cut anything and that Toei didn't add anything either.

I'm not understanding how your argument that the manga cut and rushing things is valid, but his argument isn't based on the same exact criteria you use to support your argument.
Please explain.

[Doctor.]

Except I completely disagree. It has not been rushed at all, even some things have been explained in more detail than the anime and took the time to pause the plot with something like a cart race. Fights aren't rushed either, look the last two chapters. Zamasu's obsession with Goku is an only anime thing, in the manga, he wants his body because it serves him for his purposes. He clearly dislikes that a mortal can be so powerfull, but he is not obsessed with him. Blacks character is developed since chapter 14 and finally the identity revealed in chapter 18. The identity is also revealed in one episode of the anime, Black just tells them who he is, isn't that rushed too? Yeah. Toriyama saying things would get confusing doesn't support your point at all. According to Toei, Trunks escaping from Black created Black, this wasn't in the manga for a reason, doesn't make any sense.

If Zamasu has no obsession over Goku, then stealing his body is a moronic decision, as he could have tried to steal Vegeta's, Beerus', Whis', Hit's or even the Omni-King. At least in the anime you could excuse this by saying he was blinded by his hate.

Zamasu had no obssession with Goku in the manga, he knew about he defeated Boo, researched about him in Godtube, which lead also to the dragon balls and decided to take his body. I don't deny he had more reasons to take his body in the anime, but that comes along with a time paradox that makes the origin of Black impossible, so I go with the manga version by far.

I know he had no obsession over Goku, I'm saying that him not having that obsession makes him a moron and the entire storyline flawed from the beginning.

[TheMikado]

If Zamasu has no obsession over Goku, then stealing his body is a moronic decision, as he could have tried to steal Vegeta's, Beerus', Whis', Hit's or even the Omni-King. At least in the anime you could excuse this by saying he was blinded by his hate.

Zamasu had no obssession with Goku in the manga, he knew about he defeated Boo, researched about him in Godtube, which lead also to the dragon balls and decided to take his body. I don't deny he had more reasons to take his body in the anime, but that comes along with a time paradox that makes the origin of Black impossible, so I go with the manga version by far.

I know he had no obsession over Goku, I'm saying that him not having that obsession makes him a moron and the entire storyline flawed from the beginning.

He had an obsession with mortals, and Goku has the strongest mortal body.

[Duo]

Am I the only one here who doesnt overcomplicate things (with power levels and weird theories) and reads it for the nice art and entertaining story?

No, but those types of discussions get almost completely trampled here.

I'm not willing to get super critical toward either version of things until the manga completes this arc and a fully informed comparison can be made.

Also, I'm starting to think that the release of the SEG Super Saiyan multipliers a few years ago may have been one of the worst things to ever happen.

This is a bizarre argument.

You're saying the manga is rushed because they cut things out or condensed them.
You saying his argument is incorrect because he's assuming the manga didn't cut anything and that he cant prove Toei added anything.
But you can't prove the manga actually cut anything and that Toei didn't add anything either.

I'm not understanding how your argument that the manga cut and rushing things is valid, but his argument isn't based on the same exact criteria you use to support your argument.
Please explain.

HeroR's last few posts are pretty paradoxical. At this point it looks like an obvious case of trolling, so there is nothing to reason with.

[LuckyCat]

If Zamasu has no obsession over Goku, then stealing his body is a moronic decision, as he could have tried to steal Vegeta's, Beerus', Whis', Hit's or even the Omni-King. At least in the anime you could excuse this by saying he was blinded by his hate.

I don't know, even an objective observer would come to the conclusion that if you're stealing any Saiyan's power, it's going to be Goku's. We're also not sure Zamasu can swap bodies with Beerus or Whis, but he's not familiar with them in any of the material anyway.