"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[precita]

Dragonball is not something that can go on year after year. They'll run out of story ideas quickly enough, and then we're back to pulling random villains out of nowhere ala GT and the older 13 movies.

Pretty much the whole reason GT bombed in the first place is they literally exhausted the things they can do and keep interest. Even if Super winds up better written, they'll face the same problem.

[Araki]

Dragonball is not something that can go on year after year. They'll run out of story ideas quickly enough, and then we're back to pulling random villains out of nowhere ala GT and the older 13 movies.

Pretty much the whole reason GT bombed in the first place is they literally exhausted the things they can do and keep interest. Even if Super winds up better written, they'll face the same problem.

But if Dragon Ball became a running franchise like it was suggested, subsequent new series wouldn't be like GT. It could be XXX years in the future, just set in the same universe as the original...or maybe even another universe, the seeds had been planted on that one. Like other franchises, only the concepts (martial arts, ki and aura, SSJ, Kamehameha and other main techniques, etc) would remain.

I wouldn't; it'd be my cue to retire from following the franchise. I'm mainly still here because I love watching Gokû and Vegeta antics. ^^; At this point in the run a new cast would be too much like somebody getting to animate their OC fanfic to me. I'm just not interested.

Yeah, that's why i don't see something like that happening in the near future. Dragon Ball is Goku for most people, a new show without him (and the others) would turn off current audiences almost immediately. The franchise is less Gundam/Pretty Cure and more Doraemon/Conan in that regard. Maybe generations that didn't grow up with Goku and co. would be more forgiving?

[Captain Space]

A middle ground between 'continue with these characters etc. forever' and 'full franchising at risk of alienating fans of current cast' could be to try the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure route and keep the current main cast very slowly fading into a more supporting role, while exploring the stories of each successive generation (Gohan, Goten/Trunks, Pan, etc.).

The main problem with that being it'd be much easier to do from the immediate aftermath of the Buu arc than post-BoG/F. Since previously you had the kids gaining these unique power-ups and surpassing their elders, but still having the unreliability that they'd have to develop out of to be more self-dependent in this theoretical sequel. But now, mystic and a fused SSJ3 are basically irrelevant against non-mook enemies and there doesn't seem to be any sign of any of them doing anything to change that (and Pan is just gonna be too late to the party, quite likely). (Not to mention that mystic may well be about to vanish if that plays out like the movie, and we haven't even seen SSJ3 Gotenks since the Super Buu fight.)

[Saiga]

A middle ground between 'continue with these characters etc. forever' and 'full franchising at risk of alienating fans of current cast' could be to try the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure route and keep the current main cast very slowly fading into a more supporting role, while exploring the stories of each successive generation (Gohan, Goten/Trunks, Pan, etc.).

This is something I still wish the franchise had originally done. It was set up early on with Roshi basically doing it for Goku and Kuririn (in-universe, since he wasn't actually the protagonist) and then set up with Gohan before Toriyama changed his mind about it.

I think it would have been a really easy way to continue the series while keeping it fresh. But I think with how long Goku and Vegeta have been stuck as the leads, and the God power ups putting them even further ahead of everyone, that just wouldn't work out.

[Captain Space]

This is something I still wish the franchise had originally done. It was set up early on with Roshi basically doing it for Goku and Kuririn (in-universe, since he wasn't actually the protagonist) and then set up with Gohan before Toriyama changed his mind about it.

I think it would have been a really easy way to continue the series while keeping it fresh. But I think with how long Goku and Vegeta have been stuck as the leads, and the God power ups putting them even further ahead of everyone, that just wouldn't work out.

I have recently thought of doing this as a fanfic or something. Goku doesn't come back for good in the Buu arc (maybe make him have some cool but brief return at some point in the future, movie 9/10-style), have that be more Gohan's story, with him (with help from Gotenks and mentoring from Vegeta) being the main hero there; then there's plenty of room for a trained adult SSJ3 Gotenks to be way more powerful than mystic Gohan and to take centre stage for a follow-up arc, and then a final story arc with Pan (and Uub).

I dunno, maybe I'll write it someday.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Freeza pointed out that GOHAN was not trying to kill the soldiers. I really dislike this misconception that all of them were sparring the soldiers, it would be extremely out of character to do so (besides Kuririn, I guess).

Why would Tenshinhan, Kuririn, and Piccolo be unable to kill Freeza's Soldiers?

I didn't say that...?

Sorry, I just got your point, my bad.

[Neon Z]

Dragonball is not something that can go on year after year. They'll run out of story ideas quickly enough, and then we're back to pulling random villains out of nowhere ala GT and the older 13 movies.

Pretty much the whole reason GT bombed in the first place is they literally exhausted the things they can do and keep interest. Even if Super winds up better written, they'll face the same problem.

But if Dragon Ball became a running franchise like it was suggested, subsequent new series wouldn't be like GT. It could be XXX years in the future, just set in the same universe as the original...or maybe even another universe, the seeds had been planted on that one. Like other franchises, only the concepts (martial arts, ki and aura, SSJ, Kamehameha and other main techniques, etc) would remain.

Toei's shows are completely unrelated to each other, but that's not true for some other franchises. Aside from the monster ones (Yokai Watch, Pokemon), which keep the protagonist, there's also some idol series (Aikatsu, Pretty Rythmn/PriPara) which change protagonists, but take place in the same universe right after each other, so past characters still appear. There's also the Jewelpet mascot series, which has basically completely different shows each year, even changing the genre, but they all share the "pet" characters.

Dragonball already has a tradition of beating an enemy, and then a completely new and unrelated threat popping up, which leads to new power ups. That format seems like it could work pretty well for a franchise-type show without needing the complete cast resets that Toei uses for many of their franchises.

[JulieYBM]

The protagonists could still change. New characters are what breath life into merchandise-driven franchises, including Dragon Ball up to now. Shrewdly speaking, a new and completely removed cast of heroes, with the requisite highly-inspired-by-Gokuu character would definitely be something that would work.

The problem with Dragon Ball GT is that it's leadership gave up after restricting itself to certain ideas and hiring staff with little motivation to do better. An original series needs an original vision, that's why so many of the PreCure series have worked, their core staff love the franchise and break their backs to make it great.

[Captain Space]

If they really want an inspired-by-Goku new protagonist, Goten seems pretty perfect for the role.

[precita]

Which is what they aren't doing because Super is focused on Goku and Vegeta which is disappointing.

The new heroes should have been Gohan, Trunks and Goten...and then eventually Pan and Bra as fighters. Instead most likely Gohan won't do anything, Goten/Trunks are just comic relief, and I doubt Pan/Bra will even be shown beyond infants.

[Bullza]

They should keep Goku and Vegeta as the main characters. The series would never be as successful of as popular if they started changing that up and gave them a backseat to other characters or even worse new characters.

If it's not broke don't fix it.

[dbzfan7]

They should keep Goku and Vegeta as the main characters. The series would never be as successful of as popular if they started changing that up and gave them a backseat to other characters or even worse new characters.

If it's not broke don't fix it.

The entire Z series has always been switching around protagonists all the time. Sometimes it's Goku, sometimes it was Gohan & Krillin, sometimes it was Vegeta, sometimes it was Piccolo. Z while being very repetitive, benched Goku or found ways to make other people to take the center stage, and the repeat the Goku comes in finally to save the day trope. If anything it's more like GT now where we skip the part where other people take precedence, and skip to the drama of everyone needing Goku. Before you could count on some other characters, but now you can only count on Goku. Not Vegeta cause he'll fuck things up somehow since he seems to find a way to always turn a winning situation into a losing battle.

[Araki]

The entire Z series has always been switching around protagonists all the time. Sometimes it's Goku, sometimes it was Gohan & Krillin, sometimes it was Vegeta, sometimes it was Piccolo.

That's not really the same. Giving other characters the spotlight for a short period is a completely different deal from changing protagonists. Piccolo, Kuririn, Vegeta and others were never supposed to be the main character.

That's like saying Shikamaru was the protagonist of Naruto for a while. Or that One Piece switched from Luffy to Law.

[precita]

Even so there were large periods in DBZ where Goku was completely gone or got very little screentime. This gave the other characters time to shine before he returned.

[Araki]

Even so there were large periods in DBZ where Goku was completely gone or got very little screentime. This gave the other characters time to shine before he returned.

But what basis do we have to say Dragon Ball is 'like GT" now? "Yo! Son Goku" was a lighthearted special that was mostly about Goten and Trunks, but the rest of the cast had plenty of nice moments. BoG was the first feature film in two decades, so the focus on Goku was understandable - he lost, anyway, which was breaking the formula enough.
Then we have RoF, which follows the structure of typical DBZ movies - Goku and Vegeta facing the main villain, while the rest of the cast bought time and fought fodders. I could be describing movie 12 or a couple others here, but it's RoF. That' it.

Series are a different deal, since there's plenty of room to give everyone decent screentime and there's no excuse to be different. If Super gets past RoF and the new arc(s) is still all about Goku and Vegeta while everyone else stay behind doing nothing useful, then i'll agree that it' repeating GT.

[precita]

Probably because it looks like only Goku and Vegeta will travel to Universe 6, them becoming Super Saiyan Gods puts them leagues stronger than the entire rest of the cast rendering them useless, and no story material suggests anyone else will get any proper screentime.

At most we'll see Trunks/Goten be comic relief, but no way are those two getting any major focus than that. I'm willing to be the entire rest of the cast will be forgotten as Goku and Vegeta travel with Whis and they don't show any of the other characters on Earth anymore. I get the feeling these "group reunions" and the fighting against Freeza's soldiers is sort of a "last hurrah" for the rest of the cast.

[JulieYBM]

As much as I like all of the characters, everything leading up to Gokuu or Vegeta doing something tends to be rather shallow. Everything ultimately amounts to nothing because the point is always "defeat enemy [x]!" rather than develop the characters and give them an arc. This is why Dragon Ball GT doesn't really feel any different than other storylines, Piccolo and friends simply don't even pretend they're contributing something.

[dbzfan7]

The entire Z series has always been switching around protagonists all the time. Sometimes it's Goku, sometimes it was Gohan & Krillin, sometimes it was Vegeta, sometimes it was Piccolo.

That's not really the same. Giving other characters the spotlight for a short period is a completely different deal from changing protagonists. Piccolo, Kuririn, Vegeta and others were never supposed to be the main character.

That's like saying Shikamaru was the protagonist of Naruto for a while. Or that One Piece switched from Luffy to Law.

Far more than a short period. After Goku dies a big chunk of time goes to everyone else. Goku gets the final chunk of the arc which even then took everyone teaming up to survive. So Goku and the main cast were used efficiently. The beginning of Namek is all Gohan and Krillin. Vegeta also gets a pretty big role too as Goku doesn't take center stage til the Ginyu's. Even then Goku isn't the end all be all and it takes the combine efforts of everyone to survive. Goku is then removed again as it falls to Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta to handle Freeza. Piccolo too. Goku then comes in at the end and stays to finish things. Goku and the main cast are used well. They teamed up even to help early on before the final showdown was 1 on 1. Goku is removed from the cyborgs after 19, all the way til Perfect Cell. He's benched for an entire arc. The whole arc depends on literally everyone else to handle things and this time Goku was powerless to save the day, leaving things to his son. This arc pretty much depended on using everyone but Goku. Everyone did something at some point. Boo arc has Goku be questionable, but focuses on a lot of experimentation I suppose. Goku isn't really treated as the one til the end portion. Before that he was treated as powerless to stop the threat til his ending revelation told us otherwise. This arc had some time for some other characters, though the shift to Goku towards the end set the stage for the future.

I'd say Z had a lot of protagonists, and I would solely call Goku the main character since he's usually needed for the end. Otherwise he has arguably less screen time than Gohan, Krillin, Piccolo, and Vegeta. Especially when combined. Now it's more like GT where Goku is really the only one who can oppose anything, while everyone else is more or less canon fodder. Like in GT when Goku is removed, no one else can really accomplish much unless their opponents are a bunch of nobodies. The god stuff is essentially Goku's toei hax of Super. In GT Goku had toei hax which made him so much better than everyone else, that the only time the others got a chance to shine, was again only with canon fodder. Even then only for 1 small part of an arc. Super is really no different as outside of the gods, you're canon fodder nor important enough to carry the story even for a short while. Never will Super outside of down time ever let someone else carry the plot outside of the holy 4. Well at least not the old cast. Maybe the new one might. ROF isn't much different to me than everyone fighting the people of hell and then going down to 17 in GT. Considering the super wide gap the god stuff has brought, it'll be impossible for anything remotely like Z to happen again ever.

[Araki]

Probably because it looks like only Goku and Vegeta will travel to Universe 6, them becoming Super Saiyan Gods puts them leagues stronger than the entire rest of the cast rendering them useless, and no story material suggests anyone else will get any proper screentime.

But those two were always stronger in the end (and Gohan, eventually), rising the gap doesn't make it new. That doesn't mean the rest of the cast became useless as most of them were always much weaker. Namek is the perfect example, Vegeta was leagues above Gohan and Kuririn, and Goku got there much stronger than Vegeta. But they were all important in different ways, and the arc couldn't have played out without them.

Hell, up to the Androids arc even Bulma managed to get screentime and be useful in her own way, and she's not a fighter. To this day, she always seems to find her way into the action, even in BoG and RoF. It's not hard to come up with situations where weaker characters can play a part.
What are you referring to by "no story material"? We have no idea what the U6 arc will be about. If anything, i have strong suspicions they'll need a big cast there to deal with the Super Dragon Balls.

Far more than a short period.

Compared to the length of the manga, yes, all those examples were limited periods, as Goku was never meant to be replaced as the protagonist, unless we count those few chapters at the beginning of Buu. Ultimately everything always came down to him again and again.

Never will Super outside of down time ever let someone else carry the plot outside of the holy 4. Well at least not the old cast. Maybe the new one might.

Again, that's a strong assumption. All we saw so far was BoG. It's pointless to discuss new material that didn't happen yet.

[dbzfan7]

Far more than a short period.

Compared to the length of the manga, yes, all those examples were limited periods, as Goku was never meant to be replaced as the protagonist, unless we count those few chapters at the beginning of Buu. Ultimately everything always came down to him again and again.

Those limited periods have more screen time than Goku had overall. Hard to be called limited when they take up most of the story.

-Vegeta came down to everyone needing to help bring him down
-Comes down to Goku and Freeza
-Goku hardly appears in the Cell arc and it came down to Gohan and Cell
-Comes down to a combine effort of Goku, Vegeta, Boo, and all of earth.

Only 1 time did it truly come down to Goku. Every other time it took everyone, or the 1 time someone else did the job. Unless we count the movies where Goku's ratio shoots up.

Again, that's a strong assumption. All we saw so far was BoG. It's pointless to discuss new material that didn't happen yet.

Not at all. BOG only Goku and to a lesser extent Vegeta could do anything. ROF only Goku n Vegeta again, with the rest being a literal waste of time that even Freeza admitted that his army was a colossal waste of time. The gaps are so large it's impossible for the others to be of any use outside of canon fodder fights. This is an action shonen, hence power plays a pivotal role whether you are useful or not. Piccolo will never do anything remotely like what he did in Z as he doesn't have the strength to do so. Gohan will never do anything because he doesn't either. Goten and Trunks are merely for comic relief and no interest is there to make them any more relevant than that. The humans have been irrelevant since the beginning of Z since they didn't have the strength to help. Though Krillin still managed to get some development by being partnered up usually with someone like Gohan or Future Trunks. There's nothing to support they have any interest to use the others outside of some nice down time moments. So really the most they are good for is not for any plot driven arcs, but the stuff that's in between. The new characters we're hinted at and I hear there's quite a few, a more than likely to be the next cast. Just like GT, everyone outside of Goku and later Vegeta is essentially irrelevant. Super one ups GT with Beerus and Whis, but time will tell how long that lasts.

This is why Dragon Ball GT doesn't really feel any different than other storylines, Piccolo and friends simply don't even pretend they're contributing something.

Fodder and power up Goku is what GT had everyone else pretty much do. Super so far and with F is essentially the same if we're gonna go by main storylines. Super will do better with the characters during down time...I hope.

Probably because it looks like only Goku and Vegeta will travel to Universe 6, them becoming Super Saiyan Gods puts them leagues stronger than the entire rest of the cast rendering them useless, and no story material suggests anyone else will get any proper screentime.

At most we'll see Trunks/Goten be comic relief, but no way are those two getting any major focus than that. I'm willing to be the entire rest of the cast will be forgotten as Goku and Vegeta travel with Whis and they don't show any of the other characters on Earth anymore. I get the feeling these "group reunions" and the fighting against Freeza's soldiers is sort of a "last hurrah" for the rest of the cast.

Agreed. Outside of the holy 4, nothing suggests the meat and potatoes of Super will give anyone outside the holy 4 anything remotely close to how Z handled the cast. Only down time will they get some time which I'd call the appetizers before the real course.

This is exactly how I see things playing out. After F we'll be probably seeing those new characters alongside the 4. F will probably be the last "hurrah" before the focus shifts away from those who came before. Like how the humans in Z were slowly phased out, I see the same thing repeating for most of the cast.