"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Simere]

The anime's solution is much better. Goku could have trained while Vegeta was sleeping or far away with his power suppressed, there's no excuse for Vegeta not knowing about SSBlue's side effect despite using it for nearly 4 years.

I don't get the fist part, but the second. Why do you assume he didn't know the side effect. He made a decision to show Cabba the blue form and deal with the consecuences later.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that scene. But then it makes no sense Vegeta would intentionally lose 90% of his power just to beat the shit out of Cabba, he could have gone SSJ2 to achieve the same thing.

He did it to inspire Cabba, not beat him. But that still doesn't explain why he didn't just stay as SSB between rounds.

[Noah]

But even if Zamasu could take Beerus' body, Whis would stop him.

And how exactly? Didn't know Whis was omnipresent.

Let's be real goku black manga and anime origins is convoluted and confusing as hell

The whole thing is awful to be honest. But that's just my personal opinion.

So you didn't like the arc at all?

This was already proven back in the U6 arc when SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit...

What the actual f***? This can't be possible, so SSB Vegeta got somehow weaker than SSJ Goku out of nothing? So there's no big difference in becoming SSJ or SSB? What the hell...

Toyotarou at the very least does care, or at least used to. He's gone out of his way to give battle power numbers for his work prior to DBS. For example, Dragon Ball Zero.

Strength and power scaling have always been pretty important in a story like Dragon Ball where the main focus is fighting. Sure, the author isn't sitting with a calculator in his hand while he's writing, but it's reasonable to expect some kind of consistency.

Exactly. We don't want big numbers with infinite zeros, we just want consistency between who is stronger than who and why, that's not so hard.

[batistabus]

I like the way Toyotaro seems to be justifying Goku Black's ability to access hidden potential in Goku's body. While Goku's trained it very hard for many years, Zamasu brings a different approach to fighting and ki usage. It's like he's developing Goku's "skill tree" in another direction.

[TheMikado]

Let's be real goku black manga and anime origins is convoluted and confusing as hell

The whole thing is awful to be honest. But that's just my personal opinion.

So you didn't like the arc at all?.

No, they have a ton of things they could explore and directions they could go in and instead we get Evil Goku, Future Trunks, and Vegetto. And to make it worse they aren't even spread out across multiple arcs. I feel the story was the best that it could be if you had to hit all those check marks in a single story but it feels completely manufactured and inorganic.

[TheUltimateNinja]

What the actual f***? This can't be possible, so SSB Vegeta got somehow weaker than SSJ Goku out of nothing? So there's no big difference in becoming SSJ or SSB? What the hell...

That's why the power scale is completely screwed now. This means SSBlue is only a 500x multiplier, therefore the whole chain of SSBlue Vegeta > SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ Black > Black > SSJ3 Goku = SSJ2 Trunks > SSJ2 Goku > SSJ Goku has to fit in a 10x gap.

[OLKv3]

The anime's solution is much better. Goku could have trained while Vegeta was sleeping or far away with his power suppressed, there's no excuse for Vegeta not knowing about SSBlue's side effect despite using it for nearly 4 years.

I don't get the fist part, but the second. Why do you assume he didn't know the side effect. He made a decision to show Cabba the blue form and deal with the consecuences later.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that scene. But then it makes no sense Vegeta would intentionally lose 90% of his power just to beat the shit out of Cabba, he could have gone SSJ2 to achieve the same thing.

You're missing the point. He wanted to show Cabba that SSJ is just a small step into the new world of power. He wanted to show him how strong he could eventually become, and to aim higher than even that. That's why he showed Cabba his full power, to set him on the same path him and Goku are on, the whole "never be satisfied with your current strength" type thing.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

People aren't using their head. Vegeta wasn't able to exert even a tenth of Blue's power. That statement doesn't imply a 10x increase from SSJ to Blue. Anything below a tenth of Blue's power fits that statment. Even 0.001% of Blue.

Drained Vegeta Blue can be above Hit and SSJ Goku, but not to the point where it negates Hit's timeskip.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I don't get the fist part, but the second. Why do you assume he didn't know the side effect. He made a decision to show Cabba the blue form and deal with the consecuences later.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that scene. But then it makes no sense Vegeta would intentionally lose 90% of his power just to beat the shit out of Cabba, he could have gone SSJ2 to achieve the same thing.

You're missing the point. He wanted to show Cabba that SSJ is just a small step into the new world of power. He wanted to show him how strong he could eventually become, and to aim higher than even that. That's why he showed Cabba his full power, to set him on the same path him and Goku are on, the whole "never be satisfied with your current strength" type thing.

Same deal, he beat the shit out of Cabba to show him there's an entirely different level of power. He could have done so in SSJ2. Or just waited until the final fight to show him, Cabba was right there so he could just watch Vegeta use it against Hit. Or he could have just stayed in the form instead of dropping down to base, there's only like 2 minutes between matches.

[Nejishiki]

BTW I'm a lil confused here, Black and Zamasu became a kaioshin because they have the potara's of a kaioshin right? so is Vegito like a kaioshin? since wearing the earring seems to be enough, but then why did Gowasu said that the fusion wouldnt be stable because they arent kaioshins when both of them were wearing the earrings? is there something I'm not getting?

No, Goku Black & Future Zamasu didn't become Kaioshin, they simply used their verification items. Vegetto wouldn't be a Kaioshin either since neither of his ingredients are gods. Their divine ki doesn't alter their natural characteristics to deities. I commonly see this one but using the powers of gods does not make Goku & Vegeta gods themselves. Imagine if you were to pose as a police officer with their effects. You appear legitimate, but you aren't. Goku Black's soul is Zamasu, recognized as a Kaio god with a trace of Goku's presence. It's likely humans were never meant to use the Potara. Old Kaioshin, Kibitoshin & Zamasu managed successful Potara fusions (albeit Zamasu had complications beyond his method of merging).

[Simere]

I commonly see this one but using the powers of gods does not make Goku & Vegeta gods themselves.

What about Whis saying Goku was as much of a deity as Beerus or the Kaioshin?

[Nejishiki]

I'm not sure. It would be helpful if you'd reference where I should watch or read that for analysis. I don't think that detracts from my overall message though.

EDIT: From how you're describing it, it sounds like he's saying that they're just as good as deities without actually naming them as legitimate gods. I don't have specifics to go off on, ahaha.

[Simere]

Just quoting from the Fact Checker thread for Episode 10:

Minute: 6
Context: After Goku has become Super Saiyan God
Gohan: "I can't sense dad's ki at all."
Whis: "That's fine. After all, the ki a god emits cannot be sensed by ordinary humans."
Gohan: "Then dad really is a..."
Whis: "Yes, Super Saiyan God. I don't know whether he's the same as Beerus-sama or the Kaioshins, but at the very least he's become as much of a god as they are."
Significance: Re-re-reinforcing the idea that non-gods can’t sense a god’s ki. Whis’ final statement is also open to interpretation. He doesn’t know if SSG Goku is “the same” (同じ) as Beerus or the Kaioshins, but seems sure that Goku has at least become 同等の神/doutou no kami, literally the “same level” of god, less literally an equivalent god, equivalently a god, the same caliber of god, etc. Whether or not this means Goku actually ranks as high as Kaioshin or Beerus in DB’s somewhat complex god hierarchy, I don’t know. Overall I think it probably just means Goku is definitely a god, as much as Beerus and the Kaioshins, but that he’s not necessarily the same type of god. If nothing else, SSG Goku doesn’t seem to have a job or position maintaining the balance of the universe and all that jazz, the way the Kaioshins/Beerus do, so the idea that he has an official rank in that hierarchy seems odd, until/unless we get further clarification.

[SansrivaaL]

Just quoting from the Fact Checker thread for Episode 10:

Minute: 6
Context: After Goku has become Super Saiyan God
Gohan: "I can't sense dad's ki at all."
Whis: "That's fine. After all, the ki a god emits cannot be sensed by ordinary humans."
Gohan: "Then dad really is a..."
Whis: "Yes, Super Saiyan God. I don't know whether he's the same as Beerus-sama or the Kaioshins, but at the very least he's become as much of a god as they are."
Significance: Re-re-reinforcing the idea that non-gods can’t sense a god’s ki. Whis’ final statement is also open to interpretation. He doesn’t know if SSG Goku is “the same” (同じ) as Beerus or the Kaioshins, but seems sure that Goku has at least become 同等の神/doutou no kami, literally the “same level” of god, less literally an equivalent god, equivalently a god, the same caliber of god, etc. Whether or not this means Goku actually ranks as high as Kaioshin or Beerus in DB’s somewhat complex god hierarchy, I don’t know. Overall I think it probably just means Goku is definitely a god, as much as Beerus and the Kaioshins, but that he’s not necessarily the same type of god. If nothing else, SSG Goku doesn’t seem to have a job or position maintaining the balance of the universe and all that jazz, the way the Kaioshins/Beerus do, so the idea that he has an official rank in that hierarchy seems odd, until/unless we get further clarification.

Basically this, hence why I dont understand people saying that Goku and Vegeta having God ki themselves arent Gods, they are Gods, just not the same type of God as Beerus or the kai's, but nonetheless a GOD.

[emperior]

Goku and Vegeta became gods. They are just unemployed.

[Ki Breaker]

Goku and Vegeta became gods. They are just unemployed.

Economy isn't good these days

[SansrivaaL]

Goku and Vegeta became gods. They are just unemployed.

NEET Gods?

[Mazingerdestro]

Goku and Vegeta became gods. They are just unemployed.

Economy isn't good these days

Recession man....you spend your years training to be a saiyan elite and you end up as an unemployed God

[Ki Breaker]

Goku and Vegeta became gods. They are just unemployed.

Economy isn't good these days

Recession man....you spend your years training to be a saiyan elite and you end up as an unemployed God

You end up being better than every god, put it in your resume and still shin stays your boss..
Sad times indeed

[Grimlock]

The manga is out. It seems Goku and Vegeta return to the present even though Goku doesn't know how to operate the Time Machine.

[MyNiggaGoku]

The manga is out. It seems Goku and Vegeta return to the present even though Goku doesn't know how to operate the Time Machine.

Where can I find it?