"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[SansrivaaL]

We don't have translations yet, but the chapter seems solid.

Something's very questionable, why the hell would Goku go back to Super Saiyan 1? Just seems like a stupid way to move the plot forward and make him lose.

He probably thought he's killed Zamasu so he powered down.

[Doctor.]

We don't have translations yet, but the chapter seems solid.

Something's very questionable, why the hell would Goku go back to Super Saiyan 1? Just seems like a stupid way to move the plot forward and make him lose.

He probably thought he's killed Zamasu so he powered down.

Still a moronic decision considering he has to defeat Black and powering down from SSB takes away 90% of his power the next time he transforms.

[SansrivaaL]

We don't have translations yet, but the chapter seems solid.

Something's very questionable, why the hell would Goku go back to Super Saiyan 1? Just seems like a stupid way to move the plot forward and make him lose.

He probably thought he's killed Zamasu so he powered down.

Still a moronic decision considering he has to defeat Black and powering down from SSB takes away 90% of his power the next time he transforms.

True, he saw that Vegeta was getting his ass handed to him, then again he didnt know that the senzu's were stolen so theres that.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

We don't have translations yet, but the chapter seems solid.

Something's very questionable, why the hell would Goku go back to Super Saiyan 1? Just seems like a stupid way to move the plot forward and make him lose.

He probably thought he's killed Zamasu so he powered down.

We'll have a better idea once we get the translation. There's no way to fully identify the context yet.

[emperior]

We don't have translations yet, but the chapter seems solid.

Something's very questionable, why the hell would Goku go back to Super Saiyan 1? Just seems like a stupid way to move the plot forward and make him lose.

In-Universe, Goku went back to SSJ1 because he thought he had killed Zamasu.

But it's a stupid decision considering he still had to fight Black seeing how Vegeta was getting wrecked, and we know that in the manga going SSB just two times consecutively wastes a lot of energy. Toyotaro should have made Vegeta 1/10 of his power back at the tournament because of the energies he wasted fighting Frost, Magetta and Cabba.

Out of universe Toyotaro wanted to emphasize our "heroes" bady losing to the villains

[SansrivaaL]

We don't have translations yet, but the chapter seems solid.

Something's very questionable, why the hell would Goku go back to Super Saiyan 1? Just seems like a stupid way to move the plot forward and make him lose.

He probably thought he's killed Zamasu so he powered down.

We'll have a better idea once we get the translation. There's no way to fully identify the context yet.

Yeah, I'm just looking at it from the portrayal anyways. Hopefully theres a good reason for that.

[TheMikado]

After reading the whole chapter in order, I gotta say, this is one of the best chapters that Toyotaro has done so far, if not the best. I loved Future Trunks using the solar flare to escape and the decoys that Mai and Future Trunks made to fool Goku Black and Zamasu to allow Goku and Vegeta to escape was fantastic and a great bit of strategy. Zamasu using his telekinetic powers was also a great bonus. I don't know how Zamasu knew what senzu beans were, but him destroying them was another cool moment. I can't wait to find out the translations for this.

Trunks using Solar Flare to escape is fantastic... I need translations stat... This actually makes me more interested in the next chapter. Its going to be a long wait ...

[SansrivaaL]

We don't have translations yet, but the chapter seems solid.

Something's very questionable, why the hell would Goku go back to Super Saiyan 1? Just seems like a stupid way to move the plot forward and make him lose.

In-Universe, Goku went back to SSJ1 because he thought he had killed Zamasu.

But it's a stupid decision considering he still had to fight Black seeing how Vegeta was getting wrecked, and we know that in the manga going SSB just two times consecutively wastes a lot of energy. Toyotaro should have made Vegeta 1/10 of his power back at the tournament because of the energies he wasted fighting Frost, Magetta and Cabba.

Out of universe Toyotaro wanted to emphasize our "heroes" bady losing to the villains

Maybe its because he thought he could always eat a senzu, but yes, it was still pretty stupid of him to power down

[OLKv3]

The 1/10th power crap is the absolute worst part of the manga and just creates too many problems. I wouldn't mind if he handwaved it away by saying they trained to overcome it

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The 1/10th power crap is the absolute worst part of the manga and just creates too many problems. I wouldn't mind if he handwaved it away by saying they trained to overcome it

I honestly can't blame Toyotaro too much for that one, though. I admire what he was trying to do, even if his way of reaching the 10x Goku plot-point created issues.

[Nejishiki]

Just quoting from the Fact Checker thread for Episode 10:

Minute: 6
Context: After Goku has become Super Saiyan God
Gohan: "I can't sense dad's ki at all."
Whis: "That's fine. After all, the ki a god emits cannot be sensed by ordinary humans."
Gohan: "Then dad really is a..."
Whis: "Yes, Super Saiyan God. I don't know whether he's the same as Beerus-sama or the Kaioshins, but at the very least he's become as much of a god as they are."
Significance: Re-re-reinforcing the idea that non-gods can’t sense a god’s ki. Whis’ final statement is also open to interpretation. He doesn’t know if SSG Goku is “the same” (同じ) as Beerus or the Kaioshins, but seems sure that Goku has at least become 同等の神/doutou no kami, literally the “same level” of god, less literally an equivalent god, equivalently a god, the same caliber of god, etc. Whether or not this means Goku actually ranks as high as Kaioshin or Beerus in DB’s somewhat complex god hierarchy, I don’t know. Overall I think it probably just means Goku is definitely a god, as much as Beerus and the Kaioshins, but that he’s not necessarily the same type of god. If nothing else, SSG Goku doesn’t seem to have a job or position maintaining the balance of the universe and all that jazz, the way the Kaioshins/Beerus do, so the idea that he has an official rank in that hierarchy seems odd, until/unless we get further clarification.

Basically this, hence why I dont understand people saying that Goku and Vegeta having God ki themselves arent Gods, they are Gods, just not the same type of God as Beerus or the kai's, but nonetheless a GOD.

Well, at this point, I'll admit we're in nitpicking territory. Just for the sake of addressing this in-universe, Whis himself isn't sure if what he's claiming is exactly accurate. More importantly, that is all in reference to Super Saiyan God, something that was created by ritual magic, for lack of a better term. Minor details, I know, but Super Saiyan Blue is merely using the power of Super Saiyan God without going through that ordeal. Essentially, Goku & Vegeta recreated the process through their own efforts & strengthened it (again, for lack of a better phrasing). Ultimately, even if one considers that interpretation, Vegetto is still bound by a timer & energy limit. That's what my original post was relating to. He's not the same caliber of being that Kaio(shin) & Hakaishin are (and Goku Black & Future Zamasu aren't "real" Kaioshin) though it seems we mostly agree on that with minor differences of mentalities on the matter. Technically-minded as I'm being right now, I think the Saiyans using the power & dressings of the gods is a sufficient description. Everyone seems to be on the same, general page though & that's the important takeaway altogether.

[The gr]

The 1/10th power crap is the absolute worst part of the manga and just creates too many problems. I wouldn't mind if he handwaved it away by saying they trained to overcome it

But hey it at least gave an excuse of why goku and Vegeta didn't transform to ssb in the u6 tournament and why Vegeta loss against hit but man that drawback is ridiculous I would prefer if they say it cut 6/10 strength

[Yomi]

This chapter might be the last we see of Future Trunks. Toyotarõ said his ending would be different than the anime. I would rather Trunks just died than a cop-out as living in another timeline, just to have a twisted happy ending.

"Trunks' dead, end of arc"
seems pretty lame.

[OLKv3]

Yeah, no way Trunks is dead in the Future Trunks arc, though it's a nice cliffhanger. They're going to leave him alive because mwahahaha villain reasons.

[Doctor.]

The 1/10th power crap is the absolute worst part of the manga and just creates too many problems. I wouldn't mind if he handwaved it away by saying they trained to overcome it

I honestly can't blame Toyotaro too much for that one, though. I admire what he was trying to do, even if his way of reaching the 10x Goku plot-point created issues.

I honestly have no idea what was going through Toriyama's mind when he wrote that.

Obviously he wrote something similar to "Goku defeats Hit because he manages to get 10x stronger than Vegeta", due to how the "10x" is present in both the anime and the manga, but it had to be something incredibly vague due to the difference between the two mediums. Toei did what they did best, and powered-up Goku by inflating power levels even more, Toyotaro nerfed Vegeta.

I have no idea what Toriyama's ideal vision of the scene was, but he obviously didn't think it through regardless.

[ekrolo2]

I have no idea what Toriyama's ideal vision of the scene was, but he obviously didn't think it through regardless.

Given how different the fight with Magetta went, Toyotaro probably shouldn't have made that a gag fight but a serious, heavily draining battle so Vegeta getting severely weakened makes more sense down the line.

[OLKv3]

I have no idea what Toriyama's ideal vision of the scene was, but he obviously didn't think it through regardless.

Given how different the fight with Magetta went, Toyotaro probably shouldn't have made that a gag fight but a serious, heavily draining battle so Vegeta getting severely weakened makes more sense down the line.

Seeing what he said about Toriyama's input on gags, I wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama wrote most of the Magetta fight

[ekrolo2]

I have no idea what Toriyama's ideal vision of the scene was, but he obviously didn't think it through regardless.

Given how different the fight with Magetta went, Toyotaro probably shouldn't have made that a gag fight but a serious, heavily draining battle so Vegeta getting severely weakened makes more sense down the line.

Seeing what he said about Toriyama's input on gags, I wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama wrote most of the Magetta fight

Must've been later inputs since the anime plays the fight completely straight. I mean, I like the manga one more but it could've served as a good way to wear Vegeta down to explain how Goku can be 10 times stronger than him in the Hit fight.

[OLKv3]

Given how different the fight with Magetta went, Toyotaro probably shouldn't have made that a gag fight but a serious, heavily draining battle so Vegeta getting severely weakened makes more sense down the line.

Seeing what he said about Toriyama's input on gags, I wouldn't be surprised if Toriyama wrote most of the Magetta fight

Must've been later inputs since the anime plays the fight completely straight. I mean, I like the manga one more but it could've served as a good way to wear Vegeta down to explain how Goku can be 10 times stronger than him in the Hit fight.

Toyo and Tori have the back and forth editing right? With Toriyama pretty much being Toyo's editor, so yeah, most likely later inputs. The trait that's in both versions "Vegeta struggles until he accidentally weakens Magetta by calling him a name" sure sounds like a gag fight though

[ekrolo2]

Toyo and Tori have the back and forth editing right? With Toriyama pretty much being Toyo's editor, so yeah, most likely later inputs. The trait that's in both versions "Vegeta struggles until he accidentally weakens Magetta by calling him a name" sure sounds like a gag fight though

That's a good ending even for a serious battle. Vegeta pulling out all the stops to win, probably even using SSBlue and a few of his more powerful, and energy taxing abilities to win then calling Magetta a worthless can of scraps to win. Obviously I'd put this as the fight after Cabbe so Blue can get a good reveal for him but there were ways for the manga to wear Vegeta down without making the annoying stamina issue.