Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
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TheGmGoken
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by TheGmGoken » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:32 pm
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Kakashi wrote:Chilled was way stronger than Bardock who was 15,000 IMO
Inhave Chilled as strong as Captain Ginyu and at 120,000
He was not one shot material for SSjin Bardock
15 thousand times 50 is 750 thousand. I thought you were under the impression that gaps that big were always one-shot material?
. I would say something but that'll get me in trouble. Anyways I have Bardock at 12,000 and Chilled at whatever to be honest. I mean Chilled was hurt from a Base Bardock punch. Bardock as a SSJ just kicked his ass and didn't do an attack to kill him. Then Chilled did a Supernova beam and Bardock killed him.
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Kid Buu
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by Kid Buu » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:33 pm
Saiyan Saga Goku Vs. Oozaru Nappa. Vegeta makes the Moon Ball so Nappa's power doesn't drop.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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TheGmGoken
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by TheGmGoken » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:34 pm
That would be about 14,000. Which Goku can just use Kaioken x2 and win. If anything Goku could just use Kaiokenx3 to finish the job. Then Vegeta kills Nappa and Goku
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Kid Buu
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by Kid Buu » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:35 pm
TheGmGoken wrote:That would be about 14,000. Which Goku can just use Kaioken x2 and win. If anything Goku could just use Kaiokenx3 to finish the job. Then Vegeta kills Nappa and Goku
Oozaru Nappa is 14,000? That means regular Nappa is 1,400. No way.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
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Kamiccolo9
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by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:36 pm
Kid Buu wrote:Saiyan Saga Goku Vs. Oozaru Nappa. Vegeta makes the Moon Ball so Nappa's power doesn't drop.
Nappa would be at 40 thousand. Goku can only reach 32 thousand, and that's only with using his maximum output for the Kaio-Ken. Unless Goku can cut off Nappa's tail, he doesn't stand a chance.
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TheGmGoken
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by TheGmGoken » Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:37 pm
Kid Buu wrote:TheGmGoken wrote:That would be about 14,000. Which Goku can just use Kaioken x2 and win. If anything Goku could just use Kaiokenx3 to finish the job. Then Vegeta kills Nappa and Goku
Oozaru Nappa is 14,000? That means regular Nappa is 1,400. No way.
Shit my non math having ass
. Forgot OOzaru was 10x. Nappa would be 40,000(Nappa's 4k). Goku get his ass kick. BADLY
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:04 am
Goku should take it without much trouble. Despite having a lot of raw power, Ozarus have trouble hitting small targets, and their big size makes it easy to maneuver around and hit weak spots. They're incredibly clumsy and inefficient and require a big power advantage to win. Goku can cut off his tail, dare Nappa to tank a Genki Dama (you just know he'd accept), throw a Kienzan, or launch a x4 Kamehameha through his eye and into his brain.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Kamiccolo9
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by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:24 am
RandomGuy96 wrote:They're incredibly clumsy and inefficient and require a big power advantage to win.
I don't know about that. Goku and Gohan were, sure, but Nappa could most likely control the form, just like Vegeta, and Vegeta didn't seemed to be hindered by the form much, if at all.
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:36 am
Kamiccolo9 wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:They're incredibly clumsy and inefficient and require a big power advantage to win.
I don't know about that. Goku and Gohan were, sure, but Nappa could most likely control the form, just like Vegeta, and Vegeta didn't seemed to be hindered by the form much, if at all.
Vegeta continually failed to hit Goku, didn't kill him when he did hit, and got I injured by a hit to the eye. I can't see a half dead base Goku dodging and hurting even full power normal Vegeta like that.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:32 am
Oh, and thanks to Kaboom for bringing up Vegetto's biography in the Daizenshuu in another thread. It says the relevant stuff about the Transmutation Beam:
Characteristics
Being a combination of two Saiyans, his appearance hasn't changed all that much, and feels like a combination of Goku's face and Vegeta's hairstyle. He has both Vegeta's coolheaded battle strategies and Goku's pure fighting sense, and there can be no doubt that his strength measures even greater than that of a [Super] Saiyan 3. He is capable of transforming from his normal state into a Super Saiyan form. He has certain special characteristics, including that his strength doesn't change even if his shape does.
So being immune to Buu's magic is something special and exclusive to Vegetto, not just a result of him having a high power level. And it's not just Buu's magic, it works on anything that changes his shape- so theoretically Boss Rabbit wouldn't be able to beat him either. The Kaioshin magic is likely behind that, as it's the only really special thing about Vegetto aside from his high power level.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:11 am
RandomGuy96 wrote:When Bardock first met Chilled, he went into a rage and attacked him head on. Despite seeing it coming, Chilled not only wasn't able to tank it, he actually bled from the punch. Though oddly enough he bled purple.
With that in mind, I think even Saiyan Saga Vegeta could take Chilled.
Bardock getting beaten up from Dodoria & Planet Vegeta's explosion, and to transform into a Super Saiyan, one needs to be beyond the standard Saiyan level, which is between 30.000 & 90.000? Evidence show that Bardock isn't at 10.000 during EoB.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:12 am
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Kakashi wrote:Chilled was way stronger than Bardock who was 15,000 IMO
Inhave Chilled as strong as Captain Ginyu and at 120,000
He was not one shot material for SSjin Bardock
15 thousand times 50 is 750 thousand. I thought you were under the impression that gaps that big were always one-shot material?
Yes but I doubt Chilled is not much stronger than Bardock
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:15 am
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:When Bardock first met Chilled, he went into a rage and attacked him head on. Despite seeing it coming, Chilled not only wasn't able to tank it, he actually bled from the punch. Though oddly enough he bled purple.
With that in mind, I think even Saiyan Saga Vegeta could take Chilled.
Bardock getting beaten up from Dodoria & Planet Vegeta's explosion, and to transform into a Super Saiyan, one needs to be beyond the standard Saiyan level, which is between 30.000 & 90.000? Evidence show that Bardock isn't at 10.000 during EoB.
Nothing says so
Nappa at full power is 7,600 IMO so he one shots Goku
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Kamiccolo9
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by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:44 am
Kakashi wrote:Kamiccolo9 wrote:Kakashi wrote:Chilled was way stronger than Bardock who was 15,000 IMO
Inhave Chilled as strong as Captain Ginyu and at 120,000
He was not one shot material for SSjin Bardock
15 thousand times 50 is 750 thousand. I thought you were under the impression that gaps that big were always one-shot material?
Yes but I doubt Chilled is not much stronger than Bardock
What? You said that Bardock is at 15 thousand. So at SSJ, he'd be at 750 thousand. You also said that Chilled is at 120 thousand, and not one-shot material. Yet, you've also said that gaps much smaller than that are one-shot material. So is Chilled one-shot material for SSJ Bardock, or not?
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:12 pm
Kamiccolo9 wrote:What? You said that Bardock is at 15 thousand. So at SSJ, he'd be at 750 thousand. You also said that Chilled is at 120 thousand, and not one-shot material. Yet, you've also said that gaps much smaller than that are one-shot material. So is Chilled one-shot material for SSJ Bardock, or not?
Well gaps are inconsistent
Chilled is much weaker than SSjin Bardock but much stronger than Bardock
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Kamiccolo9
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by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:17 pm
Kakashi wrote:Kamiccolo9 wrote:What? You said that Bardock is at 15 thousand. So at SSJ, he'd be at 750 thousand. You also said that Chilled is at 120 thousand, and not one-shot material. Yet, you've also said that gaps much smaller than that are one-shot material. So is Chilled one-shot material for SSJ Bardock, or not?
Well gaps are inconsistent
Chilled is much weaker than SSjin Bardock but much stronger than Bardock
So, it's okay for Chilled to not be one shot material for a Bardock who is over 5x stronger than he is, because "gaps are inconsistent," yet Nappa cannot be at 4,000?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:46 pm
Kakashi wrote:Nothing says so
Except for the fact that it is stated in both manga & guidebooks that to transform into a Super Saiyan, the Saiyan has to be beyond the standard level of the Saiyans? Goku was at 90.000 when he surpassed the level, and Vegeta at 30.000 still hadn't surpassed it. Bardock can't be at 10.000 and turn Super Saiyan, it's like transforming into Oozaru without Bruits Waves. And since it's a fact that Dodoria beat the shit out of him, and then he was caught in the explosion of Planet Vegeta, and he was found unconscious & injured to the point that they had to heal him, it's not hard to imagine that he got a near-death power-up when Goku got one from his fight with Kame-sennin after the 21st TB, and it's not hard to imagine that he got one beyond x4 when Goku got a x33 near-death power-up.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:57 pm
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Kakashi wrote:Kamiccolo9 wrote:What? You said that Bardock is at 15 thousand. So at SSJ, he'd be at 750 thousand. You also said that Chilled is at 120 thousand, and not one-shot material. Yet, you've also said that gaps much smaller than that are one-shot material. So is Chilled one-shot material for SSJ Bardock, or not?
Well gaps are inconsistent
Chilled is much weaker than SSjin Bardock but much stronger than Bardock
So, it's okay for Chilled to not be one shot material for a Bardock who is over 5x stronger than he is, because "gaps are inconsistent," yet Nappa cannot be at 4,000?
Nappa was close to Goku
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Kamiccolo9
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by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:58 pm
Kakashi wrote:
Nappa was close to Goku
But according to you, Chilled was nowhere near Bardock, yet he wasn't one-shot material. So why does Nappa have to be near Goku?
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TheGmGoken
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by TheGmGoken » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:01 pm
Kakashi wrote:
Nappa was close to Goku
No he wasn't. 4,000 is only half of about 8,000(Seeing as most BP are ROUNDED).
Your word isn't official.
