"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

Man the fandom is so ignorant they said trunks learning the solar flare is an asspull like the genkidama that a stupid arguement because first krillin stated that an easy technique to learn and second trunks saw cell using it so the genkidama asspull is way worse

I guess the Universe Survival arc in the manga will begin with Chapter 23 on April. I predict that Chapter 21 will have Goku & Vegeta getting prepared in the past, return to the future, and fight back against Black & Zamasu, forcing them to merge with the Potara earrings, and ending the chapter with the introduction of Merged Zamasu, and Chapter 22 will be the big finale.

I thought the manga was supposed to get ahead of the anime?

the manga is already ahead of the anime because he drawing the universal survival arc and passing his storyboard to toei to animate it that what I heard

The problem is that Trunks claimed he learned it from Gohan. Gohan never saw the Solar Flare in used.

After looking at both this chapter and the previous one, I think the following is going own:

- SSJ Black was stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta.
He was doing the same thing he did with Trunks, use him for zenkais. Black only lost his composure after Vegeta went Blue and start spouting his "humans are inferior, Gods are the best, yadayadayada." Also from a power-scaling perspective, Base Black was already stronger than a SSJ3 level and we see that after his upgrade SSJ Black is enough for Blue. Trunks says Black is even stronger than last time, hammering down how strong Black is.
So Black was planning to milk Vegeta for zenkais but Blue ruined his plan and he was really going to die.

- Vegeta's SSJ2 is intended to be what he showed against Beerus.
This is the exact same thing as SSJG. We assumed it was gone but there wasn't a single piece of evidence to prove it.
Toyotarõ in the fight clearly portrays SSJ2 Vegeta as stronger than Trunks. Vegeta himself comments how Trunks at his level is no match for Black and Trunks like I said before says Black is even stronger.
I honestly doubt that Toyotarõ would make such a blunder in a topic as straightforward as this, while giving power comparisons from the characters during the fight, when he's been trying his best to apply logic to everything.

About the above, Toyotarõ assumed we all knew SSJ2 Vegeta was that strong. That's his failure, he wasn't clear enough which lead to this confusion. While the power-scale remains intact, his writing wasn't good.
That's it for power talk.

One aspects of the chapter I enjoyed was the use of brains. The character saw themselves at a disadvantage and predicted Black's and Zamasu's next step to escape. Taiyoken is the classic escape technique in Dragon Ball, seeing it again made me really happy.

It still doesn't make sense for Black to used Super Saiyan. He jobbed against Trunks without transforming and Trunks' Super Saiyan 2 should be stronger than Vegeta's. Why bother to transform if Black was going to hold back that much power when he could have saved energy fighting in his base form, much like what Black did in the anime.

It was never stated in the manga that Vegeta kept the power he used against Beerus. That is really just an assumption. This isn't like Super Saiyan God when we clearly see Goku using it again. No one commented on Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 being higher than Trunks, something Trunks should have noted.

[Basako]

I'm not understanding the plot hole.

Trunks goes back in time, no ring is created yet because he didn't change history yet so there are only 5 rings when they check.

Tells Beerus and Zamasu is killed creating a new timeline because Zamasu is not supposed to be killed. This creates ring 6. Trunks travel into the past doesn't cause cause the split but the actions he actually takes are the causes. The timeline doesn't actually split until the action in the past actually happens.

The previous timeline was the one where Zamasu made his plans, there were five rings then and that must be somewhere there yet. The sixth ring is for the timeline where Beerus kills Zamasu. So, there it is, it's already there, otherwise Zamasu would be fulfilling his plans, not getting killed by Beerus. It's splitted, this action can't be creating the new timeline, they belong to it. If you say that's happening in the fifth timeline, no, in the fifth Zamasu is fulfilling his plans. The history is changed.

[LightBing]

The problem is that Trunks claimed he learned it from Gohan. Gohan never saw the Solar Flare in used.

He did, in Namek Kuririn used it against Dodoria and Freeza.

[HeroR]

The problem is that Trunks claimed he learned it from Gohan. Gohan never saw the Solar Flare in used.

He did, in Namek Kuririn used it against Dodoria and Freeza.

Gohan had his back turned because he was running from Dodoria. He didn't actually see Krillin performed the technique. Krillin was also not around Gohan when he used it against Freeza because Gohan was nearly dead.

[The gr]

Man the fandom is so ignorant they said trunks learning the solar flare is an asspull like the genkidama that a stupid arguement because first krillin stated that an easy technique to learn and second trunks saw cell using it so the genkidama asspull is way worse

I thought the manga was supposed to get ahead of the anime?

the manga is already ahead of the anime because he drawing the universal survival arc and passing his storyboard to toei to animate it that what I heard

The problem is that Trunks claimed he learned it from Gohan. Gohan never saw the Solar Flare in used.
.

I could have swore trunks learn the solar flare by seeing cell but who knows maybe future Gohan and trunks learn it off screen

[HeroR]

I could have swore trunks learn the solar flare by seeing cell but who knows maybe future Gohan and trunks learn it off screen

In the manga, Trunks said he learned it from Gohan. Also, Trunks didn't know what the technique was when Cell blinded him with it and we never seen Gohan used the Solar Flare, ever. It would have been betting if Trunks did just learn it off of Cell since it is a simple technique according to Krillin.

[LightBing]

It still doesn't make sense for Black to used Super Saiyan. He jobbed against Trunks without transforming and Trunks' Super Saiyan 2 should be stronger than Vegeta's. Why bother to transform if Black was going to hold back that much power when he could have saved energy fighting in his base form, much like what Black did in the anime.

It was never stated in the manga that Vegeta kept the power he used against Beerus. That is really just an assumption. This isn't like Super Saiyan God when we clearly see Goku using it again. No one commented on Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 being higher than Trunks, something Trunks should have noted.

Black wouldn't be able to handle SSJ2 Vegeta in base, that's my assumptions at least.
It was never stated in the manga that he didn't kept it and since we see him being ultra strong against Black, we know he has it. It's the same as Super Saiyan God in that regard.
Trunks wasn't surprised Vegeta was holding on against the powered up Black. Afterall they trained before going to the future, Trunks knows his fathers power.

Gohan had his back turned because he was running from Dodoria. He didn't actually see Krillin performed the technique. Krillin was also not around Gohan when he used it against Freeza because Gohan was nearly dead.

Then how did anyone ever learned the technique? How does Kuririn know it, if he was blinded by it every time it was used in the series? If Kuririn can do it so can Gohan.

[Basako]

The problem is that Trunks claimed he learned it from Gohan. Gohan never saw the Solar Flare in used.

He did, in Namek Kuririn used it against Dodoria and Freeza.

Gohan had his back turned because he was running from Dodoria. He didn't actually see Krillin performed the technique. Krillin was also not around Gohan when he used it against Freeza because Gohan was nearly dead.

You argue everything, dude. Not only he turned back, he also closed his eyes not to be blinded. Dude, he knew about the technique because he was there when Krilin used it. Just assume he learned it some time off screen, like the others. I think that was the first time we saw Krilin using it, he had to learn it some time off screen too, it's fine.

[mute_proxy]

The problem is that Trunks claimed he learned it from Gohan. Gohan never saw the Solar Flare in used.

He did, in Namek Kuririn used it against Dodoria and Freeza.

Gohan had his back turned because he was running from Dodoria. He didn't actually see Krillin performed the technique. Krillin was also not around Gohan when he used it against Freeza because Gohan was nearly dead.

So everything has to be seen onscreen for something to happen? We never actually saw anyone teach anyone techniques. For all we know, any of the Z fighters could've taught Gohan when they were alive.

[HeroR]

It still doesn't make sense for Black to used Super Saiyan. He jobbed against Trunks without transforming and Trunks' Super Saiyan 2 should be stronger than Vegeta's. Why bother to transform if Black was going to hold back that much power when he could have saved energy fighting in his base form, much like what Black did in the anime.

It was never stated in the manga that Vegeta kept the power he used against Beerus. That is really just an assumption. This isn't like Super Saiyan God when we clearly see Goku using it again. No one commented on Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 being higher than Trunks, something Trunks should have noted.

Black wouldn't be able to handle SSJ2 Vegeta in base, that's my assumptions at least.
It was never stated in the manga that he didn't kept it and since we see him being ultra strong against Black, we know he has it. It's the same as Super Saiyan God in that regard.
Trunks wasn't surprised Vegeta was holding on against the powered up Black. Afterall they trained before going to the future, Trunks knows his fathers power.

Gohan had his back turned because he was running from Dodoria. He didn't actually see Krillin performed the technique. Krillin was also not around Gohan when he used it against Freeza because Gohan was nearly dead.

Then how did anyone ever learned the technique? How does Kuririn know it, if he was blinded by it every time it was used in the series? If Kuririn can do it so can Gohan.

Again, it was never implied that Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta was stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks. If he was, Trunks should have at least comment on it, especially since we saw Trunks and Vegeta train in the manga and they were both in their base forms. Saying 'we know he has it' is all assumption when the work itself never implies it and all mediums has the rage boost as a temporary power-up.

Krillin saw it used several times. He saw it twice at the 22 World Martial Arts Tournament and he saw Goku used it against Tien at the 23rd World Martial Tournament. He saw the movements of the techniques before the flash and Gohan never saw it. His back was turned when Krillin used it against Dodoria, so he wouldn't see what Krillin did, just a flash of fight and he never saw Krillin used it against Freeza. So Gohan can't have learned it because he never saw it, unless he saw it in the Trunks' timeline, which has never been shown.

You argue everything, dude. Not only he turned back, he also closed his eyes not to be blinded. Dude, he knew about the technique because he was there when Krilin used it. Just assume he learned it some time off screen, like the others. I think that was the first time we saw Krilin using it, he had to learn it some time off screen too, it's fine.

He didn't turned his eyes to avoid the flare. He was flying for his life against Dodoria when Krillin turned around and used the Solar Flare. He had no clue what Krillin was doing. He was there, but he didn't see the technique. Why should I assumed he learned a technique when he didn't see it either time it was in used and his main timeline counterpart never used it. And Krillin saw it used several times before he actually performed it.

So everything has to be seen onscreen for something to happen? We never actually saw anyone teach anyone techniques. For all we know, any of the Z fighters could've taught Gohan when they were alive.

That is assumption since present Gohan never used it. I mean, wouldn't the Solar Flare be handy when Super Buu was kicking his ass? If Gohan ever saw the Solar Flare in passing like Krillin did, then fine, since Krillin called it an easy technique. He never saw it and it was never implied he ever knew it. So why would I assumed he knew it, especially when present Gohan never did.

[Basako]

So from what I've gathered the manga has also kept the huge plot hole of Beerus destroying Zamasu being the reason for the split in the timeline and Goku Black becoming a walking paradox. That's just... wonderful. It was bullshit in the anime and it's bullshit in the manga. Sad thing about all of this is that this plot point most likely came from Toriyama's plot outline for the arc considering it appears in both mediums. So it all really comes down to him fucking everything up.

Yes, but the anime had another one for Black's origin, which the manga didn't. So it's 2 - 1, for now.

[Basako]

He didn't turned his eyes to avoid the flare. He was flying for his life against Dodoria when Krillin turned around and used the Solar Flare. He had no clue what Krillin was doing. He was there, but he didn't see the technique. Why should I assumed he learned a technique when he didn't see it either time it was in used and his main timeline counterpart never used it. And Krillin saw it used several times before he actually performed it.

Krilin warned Gohan to close his eyes, so he knew what happened exactly. Even with the eyes closed big amount of light can be sensed, try it. Is it that impossible that he asked Krilin in Earth to show it to him. Or to his father, when he told him the story about how they escaped from Dodoria.

Gohan: Hey, could you teach me that technique you used when we were escaping from Dodoria?

Krilin: Sure, Tenshinhan taught it to me, it's pretty easy. Look, you put your hands like this, concentrate the ki and...

There you go.

[mute_proxy]

That is assumption since present Gohan never used it. I mean, wouldn't the Solar Flare be handy when Super Buu was kicking his ass? If Gohan ever saw the Solar Flare in passing like Krillin did, then fine, since Krillin called it an easy technique. He never saw it and it was never implied he ever knew it. So why would I assumed he knew it, especially when present Gohan never did.

Here's a simple explanation. The gap between Trunks' arrival and Goku's heart disease. Those 3 years. Anything could've happened in the future timeline. And present Gohan might've never learned it because of the change in natural events that Trunks made. And the way Trunks used it, only Krillin did it like that with the fingers. Better yet, has anyone used the technique after that time on Namek at all for you to use "Gohan never used it" as an argument?

[TheMikado]

I'm not understanding the plot hole.

Trunks goes back in time, no ring is created yet because he didn't change history yet so there are only 5 rings when they check.

Tells Beerus and Zamasu is killed creating a new timeline because Zamasu is not supposed to be killed. This creates ring 6. Trunks travel into the past doesn't cause cause the split but the actions he actually takes are the causes. The timeline doesn't actually split until the action in the past actually happens.

The previous timeline was the one where Zamasu made his plans, there were five rings then and that must be somewhere there yet. The sixth ring is for the timeline where Beerus kills Zamasu. So, there it is, it's already there, otherwise Zamasu would be fulfilling his plans, not getting killed by Beerus. It's splitted, this action can't be creating the new timeline, they belong to it. If you say that's happening in the fifth timeline, no, in the fifth Zamasu is fulfilling his plans. The history is changed.

There is no 5th timeline Zamasu because that Zamasu who doesn't get killed would always become Black and leave to timeline where Beerus isn't i.e. Trunks timeline. If Zamasu isn't killed by Beerus he ends ups leaving the timeline anyway. There is no timeline where Zamasu executes becoming Black and stays in it .

[batistabus]

He didn't turned his eyes to avoid the flare. He was flying for his life against Dodoria when Krillin turned around and used the Solar Flare. He had no clue what Krillin was doing. He was there, but he didn't see the technique. Why should I assumed he learned a technique when he didn't see it either time it was in used and his main timeline counterpart never used it. And Krillin saw it used several times before he actually performed it.

[Off-page in the manga, thanks to a little imagination.]
Gohan: That was a close one, Kuririn. How did you manage to hold off Dodoria?
Kuririn: I used the Taiyoken, which I learned from watching Tenshinhan. It creates a flash of light that blinds your opponent...perfect for escaping situations like this!
Gohan: Wow, that sounds pretty useful.
Kuririn: It's very intuitive and easy to learn, too! You basically just concentrate your ki on your forehead, imagine a bright flash, and fire! And make sure to do this with your hands! Or was it this...?
Gohan: Thanks, Kuririn!
Dende: ...

Ah, dang. Basako beat me to it.

[Basako]

He didn't turned his eyes to avoid the flare. He was flying for his life against Dodoria when Krillin turned around and used the Solar Flare. He had no clue what Krillin was doing. He was there, but he didn't see the technique. Why should I assumed he learned a technique when he didn't see it either time it was in used and his main timeline counterpart never used it. And Krillin saw it used several times before he actually performed it.

[Off-page in the manga, thanks to a little imagination.]
Gohan: That was a close one, Kuririn. How did you manage to hold off Dodoria?
Kuririn: I used the Taiyoken, which I learned from watching Tenshinhan. It creates a flash of light that blinds your opponent...perfect for escaping situations like this!
Gohan: Wow, that sounds pretty useful.
Kuririn: It's very intuitive and easy to learn, too! You basically just concentrate your ki on your forehead, imagine a bright flash, and fire! And make sure to do this with your hands! Or was it this...?
Gohan: Thanks, Kuririn!
Dende: ...

Ah, dang. Basako beat me to it.

Hey, I like how you included the whole explanation in your version. And Dende's line.

[HeroR]

He didn't turned his eyes to avoid the flare. He was flying for his life against Dodoria when Krillin turned around and used the Solar Flare. He had no clue what Krillin was doing. He was there, but he didn't see the technique. Why should I assumed he learned a technique when he didn't see it either time it was in used and his main timeline counterpart never used it. And Krillin saw it used several times before he actually performed it.

Krilin warned Gohan to close his eyes, so he knew what happened exactly. Even with the eyes closed big amount of light can be sensed, try it. Is it that impossible that he asked Krilin in Earth to show it to him. Or to his father, when he told him the story about how they escaped from Dodoria.

Gohan: Hey, could you teach me that technique you used when we were escaping from Dodoria?

Krilin: Sure, Tenshinhan taught it to me, it's pretty easy. Look, you put your hands like this, concentrate the ki and...

There you go.

He still never saw it and present Gohan never used it. Gohan knowing that Krillin was going to do something doesn't mean he suddenly learned it. And Krillin said he just learned it because it's a simply technique so he never learned it from Tien. And how would Gohan know Goku knows it? He never saw him used it either.

Honestly, this is all headcanon for a line that can have been easily written off as, 'I learned it from Cell'.

That is assumption since present Gohan never used it. I mean, wouldn't the Solar Flare be handy when Super Buu was kicking his ass? If Gohan ever saw the Solar Flare in passing like Krillin did, then fine, since Krillin called it an easy technique. He never saw it and it was never implied he ever knew it. So why would I assumed he knew it, especially when present Gohan never did.

Here's a simple explanation. The gap between Trunks' arrival and Goku's heart disease. Those 3 years. Anything could've happened in the future timeline. And present Gohan might've never learned it because of the change in natural events that Trunks made. And the way Trunks used it, only Krillin did it like that with the fingers. Better yet, has anyone used the technique after that time on Namek at all for you to use "Gohan never used it" as an argument?

Wouldn't it be more important for Gohan to learn the Solar Flare in the present timeline since he was personally trained by both Goku and Piccolo during that time to prepare for the androids? Why would future Gohan feel the need to learn it, but not present Gohan who knew a major threat was coming.

Cell used it, twice, against Trunks. That was how he escaped Piccolo and absorbed Android 18.

[mute_proxy]

Wouldn't it be more important for Gohan to learn the Solar Flare in the present timeline since he was personally trained by both Goku and Piccolo during that time to prepare for the androids? Why would future Gohan feel the need to learn it, but not present Gohan who knew a major threat was coming.

Cell used it, twice, against Trunks. That was how he escaped Piccolo and absorbed Android 18.

Who cares for whats and ifs?? The fact is, future Trunks did learn it from Gohan, and there's an explanation without plot holes, regardless of how much you dont like it.

Cell is a villain. I'm talking about the heroes finding it useful. Gohan could've not found it useful and not used it as did everyone else, regardless if he knew it.

[OLKv3]

I thought the manga was supposed to get ahead of the anime?

the manga is already ahead of the anime because he drawing the universal survival arc and passing his storyboard to toei to animate it that what I heard

That's never been the case before. So I don't know where you heard that rumour from.

Uh what? It's clearly seen in the trailer for the new arc and it was stated in Toyo's interview. Toyo is now drawing scans and sending the info to Toei. The manga release will be behind but Toyo himself is working on the newest arc with Toei

[mute_proxy]

Uh what? It's clearly seen in the trailer for the new arc and it was stated in Toyo's interview. Toyo is now drawing scans and sending the info to Toei. The manga release will be behind but Toyo himself is working on the newest arc with Toei

I wish that were how it stayed, so both versions would stay consistent with each other