Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ChiefWamsutta]

Vegeta couldve reached SSJ Ikari complete mode if he continued training without a calm mind and IIRC Whis told him to have a calm mind in order to achieve SSJB mode.

To be honest, dude, I don't think there's any correlation at all between the power-ups. Vegeta was a Super Saiyan 2 and Trunks was a Super Saiyan Rage. Vegeta just got a huge boost (or it was a SS2 Mutation) while Trunks unlocked a new form.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Vegeta couldve reached SSJ Ikari complete mode if he continued training without a calm mind and IIRC Whis told him to have a calm mind in order to achieve SSJB mode.

To be honest, dude, I don't think there's any correlation at all between the power-ups. Vegeta was a Super Saiyan 2 and Trunks was a Super Saiyan Rage. Vegeta just got a huge boost (or it was a SS2 Mutation) while Trunks unlocked a new form.

Trunks probably used the Mutated SSJ2 as well considering he was able to put up a fight against SSRose Black and Future Zamasu whereas earlier he was getting jobbed by Base Black.

Anyway, I'm getting real sick of this constant Beerus amping. Every episode he becomes even more powerful. Who's to say he's stronger than Vegetto Blue, anyway? Maybe Vegetto surpassed him.

[HeroR]

Trunks probably used the Mutated SSJ2 as well considering he was able to put up a fight against SSRose Black and Future Zamasu whereas earlier he was getting jobbed by Base Black.

Anyway, I'm getting real sick of this constant Beerus amping. Every episode he becomes even more powerful. Who's to say he's stronger than Vegetto Blue, anyway? Maybe Vegetto surpassed him.

Doubtful since his Super Saiyan 2 form had no change, nor did he had a massive charged of energy. Look at what happened to Vegeta when he unleashed his rage.

Where Vegetto stands next to Beerus is unknown.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Trunks probably used the Mutated SSJ2 as well considering he was able to put up a fight against SSRose Black and Future Zamasu whereas earlier he was getting jobbed by Base Black.

Anyway, I'm getting real sick of this constant Beerus amping. Every episode he becomes even more powerful. Who's to say he's stronger than Vegetto Blue, anyway? Maybe Vegetto surpassed him.

Doubtful since his Super Saiyan 2 form had no change, nor did he had a massive charged of energy. Look at what happened to Vegeta when he unleashed his rage.

Where Vegetto stands next to Beerus is unknown.

If he somehow did get the SS2 Mutation, it would make a lot of sense. However, I rewatched the Future Trunks Saga to see if their were any clues if he did go SS2 Mutation. There is only ONE instance where someone could argue that Trunks transformed, and it is a huge stretch. He was powering up his aura.

I see Vegito Blue as just under Beerus, but who honestly knows?

[Bullza]

When Trunks transformed into a Super Saiyan Rage (....nah that's not a good number is it) he was shown on multiple occasions, once very clearly, to first tap into his Ultra Super Saiyan 2 form before being brought back down to normal size because of the blue aura somehow.

Hence the spikier hair, white eyes, increased weight and increased strenght.

Vegeta was never shown to have obtained the Ultra Super Saiyan form unlike Trunks because he apparently knew better.

So that's possibly why he never got the form.

[TheUltimateNinja]

When Trunks transformed into a Super Saiyan Rage (....nah that's not a good number is it) he was shown on multiple occasions, once very clearly, to first tap into his Ultra Super Saiyan 2 form before being brought back down to normal size because of the blue aura somehow.

Hence the spikier hair, white eyes, increased weight and increased strenght.

Vegeta was never shown to have obtained the Ultra Super Saiyan form unlike Trunks because he apparently knew better.

So that's possibly why he never got the form.

Or simply because he never obtained enough to power to reach it before he achieved SSBlue which made SSRage redundant.

[GodVegetto91]

You know, as a powerscaling fanboy, i'm actually really glad! I am so happy to finally have some real confirmation as to where Goku stands now in relation to his past self. This dude litterally got OVER 10 times stronger!! (In fact MUCH stronger than even that!) Can you believe it!? That's insane! And it is true guys! I'm in love again! xD

OVER 10 times Super Saiyan Blue!!

Let that sink in.. sleep a night over it. And wake up in the morning in AWE.!

[Bullza]

I don't know if it necessarily means he's over 10 times stronger than before though.

Back at the Tournament they fought mostly on par with each other but a lot of that was Hits awkward abilities and Goku's Kaioken was wrecking his body. At the very end Hit beat Goku with a barrage of attacks and Goku responded with just one attack which send Hit flying so he was much stronger.

Hit might be much stronger now but it doesn't mean that he's as strong as that Kaioken x10 Goku. He wasn't even supposed to be as strong as Goku without the Kaioken at all.

But again it's not impossible as Merged Zamasu should be more powerful than SSJB Goku Kaioken x10 and Goku did manage to over power him though he was inferior at the same time.

[HeroR]

I don't know if it necessarily means he's over 10 times stronger than before though.

Back at the Tournament they fought mostly on par with each other but a lot of that was Hits awkward abilities and Goku's Kaioken was wrecking his body. At the very end Hit beat Goku with a barrage of attacks and Goku responded with just one attack which send Hit flying so he was much stronger.

Hit might be much stronger now but it doesn't mean that he's as strong as that Kaioken x10 Goku. He wasn't even supposed to be as strong as Goku without the Kaioken at all.

But again it's not impossible as Merged Zamasu should be more powerful than SSJB Goku Kaioken x10 and Goku did manage to over power him though he was inferior at the same time.

Personally, I would say that Goku is closed to being where he was at using Kaioken x10 because Goku tells Hit right off the bat that his Time Skip won't work. The same Time Skip that froze Goku in Kaioken after he improved. Either Goku found another means to counter the Time Skip that doesn't require him to out-speed the technique, which is possible since Goku claimed that Hit won't touched him again when he asked for the no-kill rule to be removed, or Goku is just that fast now that he can counter the Time Skip no matter how much Hit improved. Although it does makes you wonder if Goku used the Kaioken x10 how would he still be weaker than Beerus by a large amount.

Personally, I'm glad these episodes laid to rest the idea that Hit's Time Skip would just forever improve no matter what Goku did. It seems from the improvements Hit learned how to create a pocket dimension from all the time he has stored from his Time Skip. His increase Time Skip may have tapped out after freezing Kaioken Goku since he didn't even try to use it against Goku during their rematch.

[Bullza]

Well wasn't that the time skip he used when he assassinated the Crime Boss? He stopped time for a whole minute there for them to have a conversation. Not sure why the Crime Boss wasn't frozen though.

Unless he used the Time Storage technique instead though that wouldn't seem right because then the guards shouldn't have been frozen.

[HeroR]

Well wasn't that the time skip he used when he assassinated the Crime Boss? He stopped time for a whole minute there for them to have a conversation. Not sure why the Crime Boss wasn't frozen though.

Unless he used the Time Storage technique instead though that wouldn't seem right because then the guards shouldn't have been frozen.

Given what Vados told us, Hit didn't stop time. That's what it looks like to the victims of the Time Skip. I think what may have happened is that Hit actually took the crime boss into his pocket dimension where time runs differently. To the crime boss, everything was frozen around him except Hit, while in reality he was in a different space in time. That would also explain how Hit seemingly disappeared after the assassination was finished.

[TheMikado]

I'm prettybshure the time skip is exactly what it says. It skip time meaning Hit literally doesn't exist in space or time for that span and comes out on the other end of the skip. Which is also why the increasing never made sense to me because it's not a time freeze. The time storage also supports the time skip not freeze because all the time Hit is skipping as an individual gets stored up for later use.

[HeroR]

I'm prettybshure the time skip is exactly what it says. It skip time meaning Hit literally doesn't exist in space or time for that span and comes out on the other end of the skip. Which is also why the increasing never made sense to me because it's not a time freeze. The time storage also supports the time skip not freeze because all the time Hit is skipping as an individual gets stored up for later use.

When Hit says he increases his Time Skip, he means he increased how long he can skip ahead in time. Before, he could only skip ahead by .1 seconds. Now, it looks like he can go several seconds into his Time Skip. Remember, Jaco used the term 'time freeze' to simplified things for Goku who couldn't understand that Hit was skipping ahead in time. To Goku and everyone else, Hit is basically freezing time.

[Hugo Boss]

SSG Goku being powerful than SS3 Vegetto confirmed? No. But it's not impossible.

Btw, Super Saiyan Ikari seems self-explanatory. It's a Super Saiyan with the power of rage.

As opposed to unmastered Super Saiyan 1 and 2 which were powered by happy thoughts? Or SSBlue which has factually been boosted by anger too as evidenced by Vegeta and Goku?

This forms name is about as well thought out as the form itself: not at all.

I don't think this tone is apropriated. And I never said that. What I said is: the name explains what the form is, triggered by anger when you're already a Super Saiyan, as Trunks demonstrated in his first time using it. If the same state of mind didn't cause others to ascend to it, then Trunks is a special case. No problem with that.

[HeroR]

Thinking about it further, Goku's battle against Hit also puts to rest the idea that Hit as he was during the Champa Saga was stronger than Black despite all his boosts or that he was even on the level of the big hitters in that saga.

The common argument was that it took Goku using the Kaioken to overcome Hit and he still didn't win, although the Kaioken was for the Time-Skip and not to physically overpowered Hit, while Goku without Kaioken was able to compete against Black and Future Zamasu. The craziest being that Merged Zamasu was weaker or just a little stronger than Hit since he got his halo broken by a basic Kaioken (no number was given).

At the very least, we now know that Black was much stronger than Kaioken x10 Goku from the Champa Saga and the force that broke Merged Zamasu's halo was at least 2x that of Goku's Kaioken x10. Not to say Hit wouldn't be extremely dangerous if he was in the Future Trunks Saga since his invisible ki attack could have killed Black if he wasn't careful. His Time Skip could have also work on Black, but that's assuming that Zamasu didn't see it when he watched Godtube and didn't figure out a counter, which I don't find too likely.

[TheMikado]

I'm prettybshure the time skip is exactly what it says. It skip time meaning Hit literally doesn't exist in space or time for that span and comes out on the other end of the skip. Which is also why the increasing never made sense to me because it's not a time freeze. The time storage also supports the time skip not freeze because all the time Hit is skipping as an individual gets stored up for later use.

When Hit says he increases his Time Skip, he means he increased how long he can skip ahead in time. Before, he could only skip ahead by .1 seconds. Now, it looks like he can go several seconds into his Time Skip. Remember, Jaco used the term 'time freeze' to simplified things for Goku who couldn't understand that Hit was skipping ahead in time. To Goku and everyone else, Hit is basically freezing time.

What I'm saying is the mechanics don't make sense. If it increases the time he can skip into the future then for everyone else they aren't actually frozen. Let's say Hit can skip 5secs into the future. That means for 5 secs Goku is standing around waiting for Hit to reappear out of his time skip. For someone like Goku or ANY seasoned fighter a longer skip into the future would give them more prep/preparation time for the next attack. Why does everyone assume the victims are frozen during the time skip? Really all Goku would have to do is when he sees him skip IT or just move 20 feet away. Wait for him to come out of the skip and blast him.

[Hugo Boss]

I'm prettybshure the time skip is exactly what it says. It skip time meaning Hit literally doesn't exist in space or time for that span and comes out on the other end of the skip. Which is also why the increasing never made sense to me because it's not a time freeze. The time storage also supports the time skip not freeze because all the time Hit is skipping as an individual gets stored up for later use.

When Hit says he increases his Time Skip, he means he increased how long he can skip ahead in time. Before, he could only skip ahead by .1 seconds. Now, it looks like he can go several seconds into his Time Skip. Remember, Jaco used the term 'time freeze' to simplified things for Goku who couldn't understand that Hit was skipping ahead in time. To Goku and everyone else, Hit is basically freezing time.

What I'm saying is the mechanics don't make sense. If it increases the time he can skip into the future then for everyone else they aren't actually frozen. Let's say Hit can skip 5secs into the future. That means for 5 secs Goku is standing around waiting for Hit to reappear out of his time skip. For someone like Goku or ANY seasoned fighter a longer skip into the future would give them more prep/preparation time for the next attack. Why does everyone assume the victims are frozen during the time skip? Really all Goku would have to do is when he sees him skip IT or just move 20 feet away. Wait for him to come out of the skip and blast him.

From Hit's perspective everyone is frozen. That's why we see Goku getting beaten without reaction.

[perucho1990]

To be honest, dude, I don't think there's any correlation at all between the power-ups. Vegeta was a Super Saiyan 2 and Trunks was a Super Saiyan Rage. Vegeta just got a huge boost (or it was a SS2 Mutation) while Trunks unlocked a new form.

I feel Vegeta couldve mastered SSJ Ikari if he were going to train alone(like he implied in the BoG movie) by just thinking enemies were going to hurt "his Bulma"

Trunks case, he was always living with stress and suffering for almost all his life, Gohan is kinda the same way(although not as bad as Trunks).

Going to say it again, Toei could explain the transformation once Gohan achieves it(Gohan is definitely getting a powerup, otherwise why bother bringing him to the tournament)?

[Bullza]

I'd be surprised if we ever get an explanation for it. The best chance would be if Trunks also got the form in the manga but I highly doubt it.

In the anime they did have Trunks turn into a Ultra Super Saiyan 2 when he sparred with Vegeta which may have been foreshadowing the Super Saiyan Rage form. There's nothing like that in the manga though.

[Abra kadabra]

I'd be surprised if we ever get an explanation for it. The best chance would be if Trunks also got the form in the manga but I highly doubt it.

In the anime they did have Trunks turn into a Ultra Super Saiyan 2 when he sparred with Vegeta which may have been foreshadowing the Super Saiyan Rage form. There's nothing like that in the manga though.

It was a pretty big plot point. If it isn't in the manga, how do you think Toyotaro will handle trunks without demoting him to a background character in his own arc?