Dragonball Movie Update! What is UP with this?

[Rocketman]

KaiserNeko said: Animated movies for shows that are already animated are never retellings of the show.

Not even that 10th anniversary movie ?

They cut Krillin out of that one too. ARRRGROBBLEROBBLEARRRGH

[mrkaizoku]

What I said was this: Krillin is important in the manga because there are years of backstory. In the movie there is 5 minutes of back story. 15 if we're lucky. And then death. No one would give a shit but the "wah, they changed my Dragonball!" people. The general public wouldn't even bat an eye.

And, Kuririn should be important in the movie. Hell, they could kill Kuririn in act one in the first four minutes and have it weigh on Goku the entire flick. There are plenty of ways to do it.

Why isn't he in the movie by the way? I mean, they have enough room to make up as many characters as they please but they can't squeeze Kuririn in? I'm not even talking about using him in the same way as the original that ship has sailed! But why shouldn't he be in it? Is it because they couldn't find a way to fit him in a shitty love triangle?


I don't know why I'm complaining about this when there are a myriad of other more important things to worry about. Like everything else about the movie.

What I'm upset about here are the unnecessary changes being made to the story and characters. Why not stick to the story that's there? Is it not good enough?

[Raki]

What I said was this: Krillin is important in the manga because there are years of backstory. In the movie there is 5 minutes of back story. 15 if we're lucky. And then death. No one would give a shit but the "wah, they changed my Dragonball!" people. The general public wouldn't even bat an eye.

And, Kuririn should be important in the movie. Hell, they could kill Kuririn in act one in the first four minutes and have it weigh on Goku the entire flick. There are plenty of ways to do it.

Why isn't he in the movie by the way? I mean, they have enough room to make up as many characters as they please but they can't squeeze Kuririn in? I'm not even talking about using him in the same way as the original that ship has sailed! But why shouldn't he be in it? Is it because they couldn't find a way to fit him in a shitty love triangle?


I don't know why I'm complaining about this when there are a myriad of other more important things to worry about. Like everything else about the movie.

What I'm upset about here are the unnecessary changes being made to the story and characters. Why not stick to the story that's there? Is it not good enough?

Funimation didn't think the story (for Z at least) was good enough, so why should 20th Century Fox?

[Chrono Trigger]

It's what happens when you try to stuff 150 something episodes into a 2 hour movie. You guys act like this is something new and Hollywood is just singling out Dragon Ball. It happens to every major adaptation. From Of Mice and Men all the way up to The Dark Knight.

[Xyex]

What I said was this: Krillin is important in the manga because there are years of backstory. In the movie there is 5 minutes of back story. 15 if we're lucky. And then death. No one would give a shit but the "wah, they changed my Dragonball!" people. The general public wouldn't even bat an eye.

And, Kuririn should be important in the movie. Hell, they could kill Kuririn in act one in the first four minutes and have it weigh on Goku the entire flick. There are plenty of ways to do it.

You've never written any kind of successful story intended for mass market consumption, have you? That, right there, is 100% shitty story telling. You need to make the audience care. Why the hell do you think Krillin's death in the manga and anime meant so much to the readers and viewers? Because they had a vested interest in the well being of the character. Without that you've got nothing.

If this was DB movie 2, and not movie 1, then they could kill Krillin at the start and people would care because they'd know him from the first film. But it's not. This is the first movie. Average Joe wont care about Krillin anymore than you care about Random Background Character #3854236534 who gets squashed by a falling building off screen.

Hell, look at the Farmer. Did anyone give a shit when Raditz killed the farmer? No. Why? No background, no connection. The farmer was just someone put there to die. You'd have the same effect with Krillin without at least 45 to 60 minutes of noticable screen time. You know Goku and Krillin's relationship. I know it. The people on this board know it. But the people in the auidence do not. And until they know that you can not expect any sort of meaningful impact to result from his death.

Why isn't he in the movie by the way? I mean, they have enough room to make up as many characters as they please but they can't squeeze Kuririn in? I'm not even talking about using him in the same way as the original that ship has sailed! But why shouldn't he be in it? Is it because they couldn't find a way to fit him in a shitty love triangle?

.... "Make up as many characters as they please"? Umm. Who? From what I can remember we've got 3 originals in veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery small bit parts. Three people who get less screen time than the farmer from the series. You're saying it would be better to have Krillin get 3 seconds of screen time and then be forgotten just so that he can be in this movie instead of waiting one movie to inclue him when he can get a proper amount of exposure?

We've already got a fairly large cast. Goku, Chi-Chi, Yamcha, Bulma, Roshi, Mai, and Piccolo are all in fairly sizable roles. Don't forget, this movie likely wont be much more than 2 hours. During these two hours we have to meet everyone, have Gohan die, start the journey, get in some training with Roshi, have a Budokai, release Piccolo, have Roshi die, include a Mutaito flash back, and have the final batte between Goku and Piccolo.

Some of the above is out of order, but I think it gets the point across. There's already a lot of stuff crammed into this movie. There just isn't room for more stuff when it's stuff that can be saved until the next movie so that it can get the proper attention it needs/deserves. Need I again mention the mess that was MK:A because they wanted to appease everone by putting in everyone?

[MyVisionity]

What I'm upset about here are the unnecessary changes being made to the story and characters. Why not stick to the story that's there? Is it not good enough?

It's a story that's been done before. How about something new? Let's see someone else's take on the story. Also we're not talking about adapting novels or stage plays, it's a manga/anime. Just like with comic books, the big studios usually re-imagine the plot instead of doing a straightforward adaptation, whatever their reasoning. What's important is that they're faithful to the essence of the story.

[mrkaizoku]

You've never written any kind of successful story intended for mass market consumption, have you? That, right there, is 100% shitty story telling. You need to make the audience care. Why the hell do you think Krillin's death in the manga and anime meant so much to the readers and viewers? Because they had a vested interest in the well being of the character. Without that you've got nothing.

I'm not saying just kill him off in the first four minutes and not go back to it. Sure the audience probably wouldn't care at first, but you have the rest of your hour and thirty minutes to show them why they should. Granted, this would end up being extremely different from the original as well. And not the route I would want it to go anyway. In my perfect world they wouldn't even be making a live action Dragonball movie. It's such an unnecessary thing, but that's probably just me.

Some of the above is out of order, but I think it gets the point across. There's already a lot of stuff crammed into this movie. There just isn't room for more stuff when it's stuff that can be saved until the next movie so that it can get the proper attention it needs/deserves. Need I again mention the mess that was MK:A because they wanted to appease everone by putting in everyone?

It's a sad day indeed when we are comparing Dragonball to Mortal Kombat: Annihilation. Although, I have this distinct feeling that Dragonball is going to end up in the same boat.

[Xyex]

It's a sad day indeed when we are comparing Dragonball to Mortal Kombat: Annihilation. Although, I have this distinct feeling that Dragonball is going to end up in the same boat.

I wasn't comparing Dragonball to MK:A, I was comparing your 'They should have Krillin!' to MK:A. The "They shouldn't cut anyone out who's even slightly related to the plot" mentality is why MK:A had the issues it did.

[Kaboom]

In my perfect world they wouldn't even be making a live action Dragonball movie. It's such an unnecessary thing, but that's probably just me.

Eh, I've heard other people say it too. But for the life of me, I'll never understand why anyone would think it. Live-action movie adaptations are kind of like a "hall of fame" thing for a series. It's a sign that, "yes, this is an awesome story/franchise, and people love it so much that we, <movie studio>, feel it's justified to spend time, effort, and money to make a movie out of it."

It's something new, it's something big, and it's something impressive. It will usher in a boom and a resurgence in popularity to the series bigger than it's had in a while.

[Captain Awesome]

Xyex, why do you think Kuririn would be killed so quickly? You are assuming that, everyone else has seen movies where every death didn't happen in the first act.

I agree with Desire.

A character death does not have to be in the first act, the longer the audience spends with the character, the more impact his death will have, I'm not saying that Grandpa Gohan's death shouldn't be the catalyst for Goku's journey, It's just that I personally would prefer to have Kuririn's death tweaked a little (killed by Daimao infront of a powerless Goku etc.) then have him completely omitted to save time for the bullshit highschool romance no-one wants to see.

[Chrono Trigger]

Yeah because that's what the whole movie revolves around. A bullshit highschool romance.

[Kaboom]

(killed by Daimao infront of a powerless Goku etc.)

Something like that certainly COULD work, except that it's exactly what happened, and we assume will happen in a future sequel, against Freeza later on. Having the same character die not only twice, but also under near-identical circumstances would be... well, lame. Especially since I suspect that in the movies, they won't be constantly bugging Shenlong to repeatedly bring folks back to life like in the series. I've got a feeling that once someone dies, they'll actually be... wait for it... staying dead, unless it's a major, and I mean MAJOR plot point to bring them back.

Grandpa Gohan's murder seems to be the starting point for the entire plot of the movie. I'll use Cloverfield as an example. The opening party scenes serve to quickly introduce us to the characters, but the actually plot and remaining 90% of the movie kicks off when the monster attacks. After that, we learn to care about and sympathize with the characters AS they're running around and fighting for their lives with each other. But if one of those characters had died DURING that party, nobody would have really cared. It's the same with Kuririn. Even if the audience knows who he is, if he then dies such a short percentage into the movie, nobody's really going to care, at least not nearly as much.

On the contrary, using Gohan instead is more like the situation with Uncle Ben in Spider-Man. He's close family. That connection makes us assume he's already intimately close to the main character, and we care for and about him almost by default. It's MUCH easier to care and have emotion about him dying, even if it happens early on. When that death ALSO serves to kick off the rest of the plot (Piccolo's after the DragonBalls, and he had one), it's a perfect fit.

I would really have liked for Kuririn to be in the movie, too. But with all that said, I too just honestly don't see any way he'd be of use to the plot, since he's not the one to be dying at the hands of Piccolo. I'm thinking they'll just introduce him in the sequel. Give him and Goku a more "war buddies" catalyst to their friendship. Like a "Forrest and Bubba" kind of deal. Have them become friends during the battle against the Saiyans, then spend two whole movies together before Kuririn meets his end at the hands of Freeza. But for this movie, it may be best to let Yamcha and Roshi be Goku's friends and backup.

Yeah because that's what the whole movie revolves around. A bullshit highschool romance.

If not for the rolling-eyes smiley, I'd have not realized you were being sarcastic, and would have had to remind you that based on all the other aspects of the plot we've been privy to, the highschool portions will probably last a maximum of about fifteen minutes.

[JulieYBM]

I wonder how audiences or critics will react to a character who grows more powerful and fierce based on their rage.

Well, outside of The Hulk.

[Onikage725]

It's just that I personally would prefer to have Kuririn's death tweaked a little (killed by Daimao infront of a powerless Goku etc.) then have him completely omitted to save time for the bullshit highschool romance no-one wants to see.

I'm not defending the romance thing, but let's just say that if cutting that leaves enough time to properly handle Kuririn... that mean's there is an awful lot of high school in the film.

I think the point Xyex is trying to make is that there wouldn't be room. Not for a movie period, but for a Dragon Ball movie. There's a lot going on as it is.

Disagreement is going to happen of course. But it isn't some crazy unprecedented thing. Comic movies have the issue. Dragon Ball movies have the issue! Like Rocketman said, Kuririn was omitted from Path to Power so that they could keep the focus where they wanted it. One could also ask why Ten didn't help out in movies 1 or 2, or why Yamcha was a no-show in movie 2 when his girlfriend was kidnapped alongside his former teacher, and his two best friends were fighting for their lives. As cute as Kuririn's cameo in movie 10 was, just what WAS Piccolo doing? And Vegeta for that matter. If they could sense Freeza from space, the legendary Super Saiyan powering up should have alerted them. Was their favorite show on TV or something?

Character's get juggled or omitted in movies all the time. You guys want to see Kuririn in this movie probably about as much as I wanted to see Piccolo lead Kuririn, Tenshinhan, and Yamcha into the thick of the zombie hordes in movie 12. While I'm sure Kuririn could be worked it, it would be at the expense of other characters. They want Gohan in since their going for a bit of an origin story. They want Yamcha, I assume, because of his role as the early rival/friend and because of the love angle with Bulma. Kuririn would be redundant with that setup. Also, assuming they have an eye on the Freeza Saga, they probably don't want to spam Dragon Ball revivals. It's a common joke that death in DBZ is meaningless. I'm sure the last thing they want is for the mainstream viewers to think that the biggest catalyst in the potential third film lacks impact.

The true crime, in my opinion, would be if they omit Kuririn all together.

If it helps anyone to see where I'm coming from- I'm almost as big a Ten fan as I am a Piccolo fan. Not only is he a no-show, but few seem to be complaining about it. Most of the attention seems to be on Kuririn's absence, and nobody seems to give a damn about Chaozu's absence (he was still somewhat relevant back then). But Ten and Chaozu would be hard to explain without doing the saga before, so I understand that.

But Yajirobe should totally be in it. He may be an eternal vortex of suck for pretty much all of Z, but his brief showings at the end of DB were ridiculously badass.

[Raki]

I wonder how audiences or critics will react to a character who grows more powerful and fierce based on their rage.

Well, outside of The Hulk.

The critics are going to kill this movie dead no matter what.

[Kaboom]

I wonder how audiences or critics will react to a character who grows more powerful and fierce based on their rage.

Well, outside of The Hulk.

The critics are going to kill this movie dead no matter what.

We already know a certain percentage of DragonBall fans won't like this movie, but we have no way to know how critics or other audiences will react until the movie comes out.

[Xyex]

I wonder how audiences or critics will react to a character who grows more powerful and fierce based on their rage.

Well, outside of The Hulk.

The critics are going to kill this movie dead no matter what.

Who ever gives a shit what the critics think?

But Yajirobe should totally be in it. He may be an eternal vortex of suck for pretty much all of Z, but his brief showings at the end of DB were ridiculously badass.

Yeah. He was pretty awesome at the end of DB. If he'd not been such a coward and done proper training he could have probably done as well against Nappa as Piccolo did. XD

And it would be cool to at least see a cameo for him. (Cameo type appearances are entirely possible, we don't have a full cast list and we didn't know jack shit about Mutaito for quite a while.) But there's no way we'd get more than that. The cast is already maxed out as it is.

[Raki]

I wonder how audiences or critics will react to a character who grows more powerful and fierce based on their rage.

Well, outside of The Hulk.

The critics are going to kill this movie dead no matter what.

Who ever gives a shit what the critics think?

I know I could care less what they think. But I know that they will bury this film on the premise that it's just an attempt to revive the "2000's craze", which most people think Dragonball is.

[Kunzait_83]

I know I could care less what they think. But I know that they will bury this film on the premise that it's just an attempt to revive the "2000's craze", which most people think Dragonball is.

That’s something that will never stop being weird for me to hear. DBZ will always be inseparable from the 90's to me.

And Dragon Ball is such a blatantly 80’s anime that wears it’s decade on it’s sleeve, that it’s all but impossible for me to look at one frame of it and somehow remotely connect it mentally with the early 21st century.

Dumb question; I get the Kuririn appreciation here on Daizex, but why is this whole "where's Krillin?" thing such a major issue in seemingly every other corner of internet Dragon Ball fandom? I thought that most non-Daizex dub fans flat out hated the character and considered him (and all the other human characters for that matter) a raving joke, if for no other reason than for simply not being a member of the golden hair club for men. Why is he all of a sudden NOW considered an absolute must for this movie within those circles when he's been generally considered throughout the FUNimation era as being little more than an annoying waste of precious Super Saiyan screen time? Am I the only one noticing the irony here?

I know that he's an awesome character in general (certainly one of my favorites in the series) and all the more so in DB (highlighting the fact that this isn’t a Z movie at all), but it always seemed to me as if most non-Daizex dub-centric fans generally didn't acknowledge the existence of original DB in the first place.

[Chuquita]

Um, I don't really go to other DB boards aside from this one and the Salon, so I have no clue what you're talking about how people outside of Daizex's forums think Kuririn is a waste?

I have a friend who loved his character back when I was a newbie when we were watching Funi's dub on Toonami; and I know a couple people who have done amazing artwork and fics involving him, but maybe they're just in the minority?


Is there really a bunch of dislike for him on other boards?



(I don't associate Dragon Ball with any set of years at all, I associate it with my last three years of high school).