Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

Super Saiyan Rose Black beat Super Saiyan Blue Goku far easier than Golden Frieza did. Goku at least was able to put up a good fight against Frieza but he, Vegeta and Trunks were schooled by Black at the same time and they'd be even stronger here than back in the Resurrection F saga.

Even the initial Super Saiyan Rose Black is stronger than Golden Frieza and Goku beat his ass around and then Vegeta beat around an even stronger version of Black than that.

[Marlowe89]

Frieza is still stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta. That's blatantly stated. Not sure how anyone that isn't biased would come to the conclusion that the article is just trying to say that Frieza's form has a higher multiplier than Blue when that isn't the factually correct interpretation based on what it says and that wouldn't even make sense to point out.

If Frieza is weaker than Goku and Vegeta, then he wouldn't be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue. It's that simple.

How much stronger do you think Frieza was compared to Goku and Vegeta in RoF? While I doubt that Goku's default strength literally multiplied since then, one would think that the Black arc has demonstrated noteworthy gains for him unless they were just temporary rage boosts.

[DBZ Macky]

Goku getting 10x stronger without any warning really caught me off-guard. As someone who believes that Goku never did surpass Freeza in base even after more than a decade, it really made me think that yes, battle powers are bullshit.
After calming down a bit, I still think they are bullshit. In the end, all of us are just trying to apply logic that doesn't really exist into a show made for japanese kids.

But that's not gonna stop me from not trying to make stupid lists anyways
Here's my list for the Goku Black arc and the Hit episodes, for anyone who may be remotely interested:

JULY, AGE 780- THE CHAMPA SAGA

Goku- 1,650,000,000,000
Super Saiyan- 82,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God- 742,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 825,000,000,000,000
SSGSS Kaioken- 1,650,000,000,000,000
SSGSS Kaioken x10- 8,250,000,000,000,000
Hit- 800,000,000,000,000
0.2s Timeskip- 1,600,000,000,000,000
Full Power- 8,000,000,000,000,000

DEC, AGE 780- GOKU BLACK

Goku- 1,680,000,000,000
Super Saiyan- 84,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2- 168,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3- 672,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God- 756,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 840,000,000,000,000
Enraged- 1,680,000,000,000,000
Beyond Limits- 6,720,000,000,000,000
Zenkai- 8,000,000,000,000,001 // I know "Zenkais" died but so did rage boosts, didn't they?

Vegeta- 1,660,000,000,000
Super Saiyan- 83,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2- 166,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 830,000,000,000,000
Post RoSaT- 950,000,000,000,000
Enraged- 1,900,000,000,000,000
Zenkai- 8,000,000,000,000,000 //Goku bias is strong here

Future Trunks- 1,640,000,000,000
Super Saiyan- 82,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2- 164,000,000,000,000
Enraged- 790,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rage- 900,000,000,000,000
Enraged Super Saiyan Rage- 1,800,000,000,000,000 //Yes, you can get even more enraged as a Super Saiyan Rage
Genki Sword- 18,000,000,000,000,000,000

Vegito- 48,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 24,000,000,000,000,000,000

Black- 700,000,000,000,000
Vs. Goku- 170,000,000,000,000
Vs. Trunks- 180,000,000,000,000
Full Power- 825,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose- 950,000,000,000,000
Scimitar- 1,900,000,000,000
Scythe- 7,600,000,000,000

Zamasu- 150,000,000,000,000
Future- 750,000,000,000,000

Merged Zamasu- 15,000,000,000,000,000
Full power- 15,000,000,000,000,000,000
Power Weighted- 24,000,000,000,000,000,000
Weakened- 18,000,000,000,000,000,000

AGE I DON'T EVEN KNOW AT THIS POINT- GOKU ASKS WHIS TO ASK VADOS TO HIRE HIT TO KILL GOKU

Hit- 800,000,000,000,001
Full Power- 8,000,000,000,000,010 //Hit has improved a lot!

Goku- 16,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 8,250,000,000,000,000

Any feedback would be much appreciated

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Freeza was stronger than Goku and Vegeta in the Resurrection 'F' Saga. Freeza was strong, but do you honestly think he was over 10x stronger than Goku, because that is how much stronger Goku is at the very least since he can fight a much stronger Hit without the Kaioken?

No, Goku isn't over 10x stronger. There isn't anything that implies that.

How much stronger do you think Frieza was compared to Goku and Vegeta in RoF? While I doubt that Goku's default strength literally multiplied since then, one would think that the Black arc has demonstrated noteworthy gains for him unless they were just temporary rage boosts.

[spoiler]Super Saiyan=50xbase
Super Saiyan 2=2xSuper Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3=4xSuper Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan God=200,000xbase
Super Saiyan Blue=10xSuper Saiyan God
Golden Frieza=3,500,000xFinal form
Super Saiyan Rose=4,125xbase


Resurrection F arc Base Goku: 30,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,000,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 60,000,000,000,000,000,000

Final form Frieza: 29,000,000,000,000
Golden Frieza: 101,500,000,000,000,000,000

Universe 6 arc Base Goku: 32,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,400,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 64,000,000,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks arc Base Goku: 32,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 1,625,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 3,250,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 13,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 65,500,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black: 15,000,000,000,000,000
Base Goku Black(Post fighting Super Saiyan 2 Goku): 17,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 70,125,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Rage boost): 37,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 7,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 75,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(Zenkai): 20,650,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 85,181,250,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Zenkai): 47,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 9,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 95,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(Rage Boost): 25,500,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 105,187,500,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]

That's the gaps I have. If I remember correctly Goku admitted that Frieza could kill him in an instant and Frieza was stronger than SSB Goku even while holding back.

[Bullza]

He said he could kill him in an instant if he let his guard down. Hit and Black could have done the same. Hit kinda did actually.

Golden Frieza was stronger but not overwhelmingly so. The fight was partly even at first.

I'd say that Golden Frieza was still stronger than Super Saiyan Blue by the Universe 6 saga. By the time of the Copy Water and Future Trunks sagas when they were stronger still there can't have been too much in it.

By the time Goku had his rage boost and Vegeta trained for six months and also had his rage boost there's no way they could be weaker.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

He said he could kill him in an instant if he let his guard down. Hit and Black could have done the same. Hit kinda did actually.

Golden Frieza was stronger but not overwhelmingly so. The fight was partly even at first.

I'd say that Golden Frieza was still stronger than Super Saiyan Blue by the Universe 6 saga. By the time of the Copy Water and Future Trunks sagas when they were stronger still there can't have been too much in it.

By the time Goku had his rage boost and Vegeta trained for six months and also had his rage boost there's no way they could be weaker.

Frieza stated that he could kill Goku in an instant if he wanted to based on the power that he had compared to what he sensed from Goku, which means there was a massive gap. Frieza was toying with Goku the entire fight. The moment he increased his effort, Goku was getting thrashed and had to rely on Frieza's stamina dropping.

Frieza's power is still stated to surpass Super Saiyan Blue, so it is the case that he is still stronger regardless of whether or not you want to believe it. He wouldn't demolish them with ease like before, but he still has a gap on them that's worth mentioning.

[TheMikado]

I hope this isn't another Beerus situation where the goal posts keep moving

[Simere]

Yet another person too impressed by the showmanship of a braggart.

[MagmonKai]

Goku getting 10x stronger without any warning really caught me off-guard. As someone who believes that Goku never did surpass Freeza in base even after more than a decade, it really made me think that yes, battle powers are bullshit.
After calming down a bit, I still think they are bullshit. In the end, all of us are just trying to apply logic that doesn't really exist into a show made for japanese kids.

But that's not gonna stop me from not trying to make stupid lists anyways
Here's my list for the Goku Black arc and the Hit episodes, for anyone who may be remotely interested:

JULY, AGE 780- THE CHAMPA SAGA

Goku- 1,650,000,000,000
Super Saiyan- 82,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God- 742,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 825,000,000,000,000
SSGSS Kaioken- 1,650,000,000,000,000
SSGSS Kaioken x10- 8,250,000,000,000,000
Hit- 800,000,000,000,000
0.2s Timeskip- 1,600,000,000,000,000
Full Power- 8,000,000,000,000,000

DEC, AGE 780- GOKU BLACK

Goku- 1,680,000,000,000
Super Saiyan- 84,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2- 168,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3- 672,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God- 756,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 840,000,000,000,000
Enraged- 1,680,000,000,000,000
Beyond Limits- 6,720,000,000,000,000
Zenkai- 8,000,000,000,000,001 // I know "Zenkais" died but so did rage boosts, didn't they?

Vegeta- 1,660,000,000,000
Super Saiyan- 83,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2- 166,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 830,000,000,000,000
Post RoSaT- 950,000,000,000,000
Enraged- 1,900,000,000,000,000
Zenkai- 8,000,000,000,000,000 //Goku bias is strong here

Future Trunks- 1,640,000,000,000
Super Saiyan- 82,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2- 164,000,000,000,000
Enraged- 790,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rage- 900,000,000,000,000
Enraged Super Saiyan Rage- 1,800,000,000,000,000 //Yes, you can get even more enraged as a Super Saiyan Rage
Genki Sword- 18,000,000,000,000,000,000

Vegito- 48,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 24,000,000,000,000,000,000

Black- 700,000,000,000,000
Vs. Goku- 170,000,000,000,000
Vs. Trunks- 180,000,000,000,000
Full Power- 825,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose- 950,000,000,000,000
Scimitar- 1,900,000,000,000
Scythe- 7,600,000,000,000

Zamasu- 150,000,000,000,000
Future- 750,000,000,000,000

Merged Zamasu- 15,000,000,000,000,000
Full power- 15,000,000,000,000,000,000
Power Weighted- 24,000,000,000,000,000,000
Weakened- 18,000,000,000,000,000,000

AGE I DON'T EVEN KNOW AT THIS POINT- GOKU ASKS WHIS TO ASK VADOS TO HIRE HIT TO KILL GOKU

Hit- 800,000,000,000,001
Full Power- 8,000,000,000,000,010 //Hit has improved a lot!

Goku- 16,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue- 8,250,000,000,000,000

Any feedback would be much appreciated

I wish people wouldn't use all these damn zeros...use the right format...anything over 1 million should be 1.0x10^6 or something like that...people can't be trying to make sense of all these figures. IT looks ridiculous.

[Bullza]

Frieza stated that he could kill Goku in an instant if he wanted to based on the power that he had compared to what he sensed from Goku, which means there was a massive gap.

He's notoriously cocky, he said he was the strongest in the universe even after he'd been defeated back in the Namek saga. Even if there was a big gap there was a big gap between Black and Goku aswell and then another big gap between Goku and Vegeta after the powered up.

Besides which Beerus actually says that even though Frieza has grown really strong he hasnt gotten strong enough that Goku couldn't beat him if he fought alongside Vegeta.

Goku fighting alongside Vegeta and Trunks was not enough to overcome Super Saiyan Rose Black at his weakest and again Goku and Vegeta were stronger by this point.

Goku and Vegeta eventually surpassed Black at that level and more.

[Marlowe89]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ographies/

I forgot Kanzenshuu translated this article - it does indeed state that Golden Frieza's strength surpasses Super Saiyan Blue. On the other hand, it also states that Super Saiyan God's power is on par with Beerus, so I'm not sure if anything mentioned here should be taken as gospel.

There's also this from the beginning of the article:

A thorough analysis of all the tough foes from throughout the series!

We’re looking back on all the rivals who have traded blows with Goku, while displaying the V-Jump editorial department’s own personal degrees of danger for them.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... ographies/

I forgot Kanzenshuu translated this article - it does indeed state that Golden Frieza's strength surpasses Super Saiyan Blue. On the other hand, it also states that Super Saiyan God's power is on par with Beerus, so I'm not sure if anything mentioned here should be taken as gospel.

There's also this from the beginning of the article:

A thorough analysis of all the tough foes from throughout the series!

We’re looking back on all the rivals who have traded blows with Goku, while displaying the V-Jump editorial department’s own personal degrees of danger for them.

It doesn't state that Super Saiyan God=Beerus. It states that Beerus wanted to fight a Super Saiyan God that had power on par with his own and that he fought Goku in search of that. Doesn't mean that SSJG Goku was on par with Beerus.

[Simere]

That article is worthless as an authoritative source.

[Marlowe89]

It doesn't state that Super Saiyan God=Beerus. It states that Beerus wanted to fight a Super Saiyan God that had power on par with his own and that he fought Goku in search of that. Doesn't mean that SSJG Goku was on par with Beerus.

That's kind of my point. The specific wording of the line is "Waking up after 39 years, Beerus is interested in the Super Saiyan God, with power on par with his own. Hearing that Super Saiyan God is on Earth, he battled Goku there"; I'm sure that the article's authors were entirely aware that Super Saiyan God isn't on par with Beerus, but it was phrased that way because it was relevant to the particular context of a time when Beerus sought out the Super Saiyan God. In fact, all of these "rival bios" seem to only refer to the point in time that they actually appear to the protagonists (Monaka is even called the "strongest man of Universe 7").

Why, then, should we assume that Golden Frieza is still superior in strength to Super Saiyan Blue as of the Goku Black arc when A.) that is never explicitly stated in the article, and B.) the content of the article only seems to be attributed to the personal opinions of V-Jump's own editorial department?

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

That's kind of my point. The specific wording of the line is "Waking up after 39 years, Beerus is interested in the Super Saiyan God, with power on par with his own. Hearing that Super Saiyan God is on Earth, he battled Goku there"; I'm sure that the article's authors were entirely aware that Super Saiyan God isn't on par with Beerus, but it was phrased that way because it was relevant to the particular context of a time when Beerus sought out the Super Saiyan God. In fact, all of these "rival bios" seem to only refer to the point in time that they actually appear to the protagonists (Monaka is even called the "strongest man of Universe 7").

Only time when the articles do that is when it references a specific event. Frieza surpassing Super Saiyan Blue isn't a statement tied to any era. There's a question mark next to the statement about Monaka. It's just playing into the gag factor. If Monaka came back right now, everyone would pretend that he is the strongest so Goku wouldn't know that he's weak.

Why, then, should we assume that Golden Frieza is still superior in strength to Super Saiyan Blue as of the Goku Black arc when A.) that is never explicitly stated in the article, and B.) the content of the article only seems to be attributed to the personal opinions of V-Jump's own editorial department?

It states that Frieza surpasses Super Saiyan Blue, not that he used to be stronger than it. It doesn't get any more explicit and current than that.

[GodKaio-Ken]

That's kind of my point. The specific wording of the line is "Waking up after 39 years, Beerus is interested in the Super Saiyan God, with power on par with his own. Hearing that Super Saiyan God is on Earth, he battled Goku there"; I'm sure that the article's authors were entirely aware that Super Saiyan God isn't on par with Beerus, but it was phrased that way because it was relevant to the particular context of a time when Beerus sought out the Super Saiyan God. In fact, all of these "rival bios" seem to only refer to the point in time that they actually appear to the protagonists (Monaka is even called the "strongest man of Universe 7").

Only time when the articles do that is when it references a specific event. Frieza surpassing Super Saiyan Blue isn't a statement tied to any era. There's a question mark next to the statement about Monaka. It's just playing into the gag factor. If Monaka came back right now, everyone would pretend that he is the strongest so Goku wouldn't know that he's weak.

Why, then, should we assume that Golden Frieza is still superior in strength to Super Saiyan Blue as of the Goku Black arc when A.) that is never explicitly stated in the article, and B.) the content of the article only seems to be attributed to the personal opinions of V-Jump's own editorial department?

It states that Frieza surpasses Super Saiyan Blue, not that he used to be stronger than it. It doesn't get any more explicit and current than that.

Every event there is written from the perspective of the time it took place. Its pretty obvious.

[Hugo Boss]

That's kind of my point. The specific wording of the line is "Waking up after 39 years, Beerus is interested in the Super Saiyan God, with power on par with his own. Hearing that Super Saiyan God is on Earth, he battled Goku there"; I'm sure that the article's authors were entirely aware that Super Saiyan God isn't on par with Beerus, but it was phrased that way because it was relevant to the particular context of a time when Beerus sought out the Super Saiyan God. In fact, all of these "rival bios" seem to only refer to the point in time that they actually appear to the protagonists (Monaka is even called the "strongest man of Universe 7").

Only time when the articles do that is when it references a specific event. Frieza surpassing Super Saiyan Blue isn't a statement tied to any era. There's a question mark next to the statement about Monaka. It's just playing into the gag factor. If Monaka came back right now, everyone would pretend that he is the strongest so Goku wouldn't know that he's weak.

Why, then, should we assume that Golden Frieza is still superior in strength to Super Saiyan Blue as of the Goku Black arc when A.) that is never explicitly stated in the article, and B.) the content of the article only seems to be attributed to the personal opinions of V-Jump's own editorial department?

It states that Frieza surpasses Super Saiyan Blue, not that he used to be stronger than it. It doesn't get any more explicit and current than that.

Every event there is written from the perspective of the time it took place. Its pretty obvious.

And I thought we didn't need to be so blunt. This wasn't supposed to be something to wonder about.

[HeroR]

No, Goku isn't over 10x stronger. There isn't anything that implies that.

How much stronger do you think Frieza was compared to Goku and Vegeta in RoF? While I doubt that Goku's default strength literally multiplied since then, one would think that the Black arc has demonstrated noteworthy gains for him unless they were just temporary rage boosts.

[spoiler]Super Saiyan=50xbase
Super Saiyan 2=2xSuper Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3=4xSuper Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan God=200,000xbase
Super Saiyan Blue=10xSuper Saiyan God
Golden Frieza=3,500,000xFinal form
Super Saiyan Rose=4,125xbase


Resurrection F arc Base Goku: 30,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,000,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 60,000,000,000,000,000,000

Final form Frieza: 29,000,000,000,000
Golden Frieza: 101,500,000,000,000,000,000

Universe 6 arc Base Goku: 32,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,400,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 64,000,000,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks arc Base Goku: 32,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 1,625,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 3,250,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 13,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 65,500,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black: 15,000,000,000,000,000
Base Goku Black(Post fighting Super Saiyan 2 Goku): 17,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 70,125,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Rage boost): 37,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 7,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 75,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(Zenkai): 20,650,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 85,181,250,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Zenkai): 47,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 9,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 95,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(Rage Boost): 25,500,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 105,187,500,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]

That's the gaps I have. If I remember correctly Goku admitted that Frieza could kill him in an instant and Frieza was stronger than SSB Goku even while holding back.

Goku could be Hit's Time-Skip without the Kaioken, that Hit improved so much that it froze him. Hit didn't even try to used the Time-Skip even when Goku had him dead to rights.

Also, Goku didn't say that Freeza could have skilled him instantly. Goku himself was also holding back, since he went to his max power briefly to make Freeza go all out in Episode 26. He said he could kick his butt, which he did. And if the power gap was really that huge, Goku and Vegeta working together wouldn't have overcome Golden Freeza, something Whis said Goku and Vegeta could do in both the movie and Super.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

That's kind of my point. The specific wording of the line is "Waking up after 39 years, Beerus is interested in the Super Saiyan God, with power on par with his own. Hearing that Super Saiyan God is on Earth, he battled Goku there"; I'm sure that the article's authors were entirely aware that Super Saiyan God isn't on par with Beerus, but it was phrased that way because it was relevant to the particular context of a time when Beerus sought out the Super Saiyan God. In fact, all of these "rival bios" seem to only refer to the point in time that they actually appear to the protagonists (Monaka is even called the "strongest man of Universe 7").

Only time when the articles do that is when it references a specific event. Frieza surpassing Super Saiyan Blue isn't a statement tied to any era. There's a question mark next to the statement about Monaka. It's just playing into the gag factor. If Monaka came back right now, everyone would pretend that he is the strongest so Goku wouldn't know that he's weak.

Why, then, should we assume that Golden Frieza is still superior in strength to Super Saiyan Blue as of the Goku Black arc when A.) that is never explicitly stated in the article, and B.) the content of the article only seems to be attributed to the personal opinions of V-Jump's own editorial department?

It states that Frieza surpasses Super Saiyan Blue, not that he used to be stronger than it. It doesn't get any more explicit and current than that.

Every event there is written from the perspective of the time it took place. Its pretty obvious.

Then it would refer to a specific event in the statement, but it doesn't. It just says that he's stronger than Super Saiyan Blue. Not sure why the denial is so strong here.

No, Goku isn't over 10x stronger. There isn't anything that implies that.



[spoiler]Super Saiyan=50xbase
Super Saiyan 2=2xSuper Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3=4xSuper Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan God=200,000xbase
Super Saiyan Blue=10xSuper Saiyan God
Golden Frieza=3,500,000xFinal form
Super Saiyan Rose=4,125xbase


Resurrection F arc Base Goku: 30,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,000,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 60,000,000,000,000,000,000

Final form Frieza: 29,000,000,000,000
Golden Frieza: 101,500,000,000,000,000,000

Universe 6 arc Base Goku: 32,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,400,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 64,000,000,000,000,000,000

Future Trunks arc Base Goku: 32,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Goku: 1,625,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 2 Goku: 3,250,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan 3 Goku: 13,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 6,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 65,500,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black: 15,000,000,000,000,000
Base Goku Black(Post fighting Super Saiyan 2 Goku): 17,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 70,125,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Rage boost): 37,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 7,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 75,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(Zenkai): 20,650,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 85,181,250,000,000,000,000

Base Goku(Zenkai): 47,500,000,000,000
Super Saiyan God Goku: 9,500,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 95,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku Black(Rage Boost): 25,500,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black: 105,187,500,000,000,000,000[/spoiler]

That's the gaps I have. If I remember correctly Goku admitted that Frieza could kill him in an instant and Frieza was stronger than SSB Goku even while holding back.

Goku could be Hit's Time-Skip without the Kaioken, that Hit improved so much that it froze him. Hit didn't even try to used the Time-Skip even when Goku had him dead to rights.

Also, Goku didn't say that Freeza could have skilled him instantly. Goku himself was also holding back, since he went to his max power briefly to make Freeza go all out in Episode 26. He said he could kick his butt, which he did. And if the power gap was really that huge, Goku and Vegeta working together wouldn't have overcome Golden Freeza, something Whis said Goku and Vegeta could do in both the movie and Super.

All Goku said is that it wouldn't work, not that it couldn't freeze him. He said the same thing about Hit's invisible ki blasts. It doesn't mean that it can't kill him.

Goku went full power and Frieza still demolished him. Not sure what point you're trying to make. Don't see why Goku and Vegeta together can't beat Frieza even with that gap. You're just making claims without backing them up and it isn't actually possible to back up anything that you're saying.

[HeroR]

All Goku said is that it wouldn't work, not that it couldn't freeze him. He said the same thing about Hit's invisible ki blasts. It doesn't mean that it can't kill him.

Goku went full power and Frieza still demolished him. Not sure what point you're trying to make. Don't see why Goku and Vegeta together can't beat Frieza even with that gap. You're just making claims without backing them up and it isn't actually possible to back up anything that you're saying.

The reason why the Time-Skip didn't work during the tournament is because Goku out-speed the Time-Skip or if used the manga, he outpowered it. So Goku is saying that even without the Kaioken, the Time-Skip won't work, to which Hit agreed and didn't even try to used it even when he was trouble. So Goku's growth is at least 10x that during the Champa Saga.

Goku didn't go full power until the last minute of the Golden Freeza fight, to which Freeza followed and went all out. Even then, Goku didn't die in one hit despite being overwhelmed. Also, Black took Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks ganging up on him with eased. He literally danced around them, while Beerus and Whis said that if Goku and Vegeta worked together, they would be able to handle Freeza easily. So Black was already stronger than Golden Freeza, yet Vegeta and Goku managed to overwhelmed Black at points. On top of that, we have seen group fights against stronger opponents where the power gap wasn't nearly that big. None of the Z-Fighters could barely hurt Nappa despite working together. Piccolo had a power over 3,000 with the rest over the 2,000 mark. Nappa's power is general said to be either 4 or 5 thousand. Yet, none of that could really overwhelmed Nappa. Which means the power gap between Golden Freeza and Goku and Vegeta wasn't that huge if both of them together could easily beat him, using Whis and Beerus' words.

I have backed up all my claims with statements and scene from the series. So don't know what you're talking about.