Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Bullza]

How this scene is filler? I though the whole TV Special was canon

It's not. It never was.

[Sinestro]

Bardock is only able to kill thousands of soldiers at once when he hears his theme playing in the background. Once it stops, he gets manhandled by the Dodorias of the world...

Fairly enough. Though that scene became "filler", actually. At least, Bardock going to face Freeza is still considered.

How this scene is filler? I though the whole TV Special was canon

Safety tip: We don't use the c-word here, since there's no such thing!

[Hellspawn28]

Bardock is only able to kill thousands of soldiers at once when he hears his theme playing in the background. Once it stops, he gets manhandled by the Dodorias of the world...

Fairly enough. Though that scene became "filler", actually. At least, Bardock going to face Freeza is still considered.

How this scene is filler? I though the whole TV Special was canon

The Bardock TV special never happens in the manga going by what we seen in DB-. I think Bardock try to warn people about the future failed and try to stop Freeza in space, but that's about it.

[lord turbo]

How this scene is filler? I though the whole TV Special was canon

It's not. It never was.

Actually, it was. Toriyama himself stated he placed the story and setting of that special in his manga. Even the scenes from the special make it into the manga. The problem arises from Minus. i guess you could say a month later the events of the BS takes place, but at this point I think its more of a Broad Strokes kind of thing. Some things do take place, other things do not. Such as no baby Goku and all that mess, but other stuff like Bardock's crew dying against Dodoria and Bardock's final showdown with Freeza could still be canonical.

[JulieYBM]

Nice to see we are a little less than two weeks away from finally seeing just what Freeza's new evolution is. I guess this means it really is a new form?

[Luso Saiyan]

Even the scenes from the special make it into the manga.

Only a couple of shots.

[VegettoEX]

Toriyama including Bardock for two panels does not inherently make the entire contents of the TV special canonical (particularly because there is no strict definition of a canon for the franchise to begin with). In terms of the manga, all we know is that Goku has a dad, he was a Saiyan, he challenged Freeza, and he died. That's literally it. The rest of the events that happened in the TV special do not have to necessarily exist in Toriyama's manga. His quotes about what he liked about the special and him inferring what happens in his manga may or may not have been mutually exclusive.

That all being said, this on-going discussion about a canon for the franchise still doesn't really belong in this thread unless it's specifically being tied back to the new movie.

[Dyno]

I didn't meant to start "filler and canon" thread... I just don't know other way to express that the TV Special, aside from Bardock going to face Freeza scene, is not considered due to Dragon Ball Minus. But one might consider the whole special or not...

[shinmaru]

Nice to see we are a little less than two weeks away from finally seeing just what Freeza's new evolution is. I guess this means it really is a new form?

Made a sketch how Freeza new transformation may look.
Lazy to finish it


drawing skills are a bit rusty, but it's a mix of final form and first form I think he's going to be a mix of those two transformations

[Kakarot9001]

1. Which he grew to like with Piccolo

2/3. Which he didn't show any displeasure with.

4. He enjoys playing super hero and fighting bad guys. He protects people by warding off criminals. Do you believe he just talks them to stopping. Almost always does he have to fight.

5. He never had to train for it. He wanted to. He didn't get upset training with Goten, he enjoyed it.

6. No he wanted to fight Dabura. Everyone had a turn fighting and he wanted to fight too. He never says he wants to impress his dad, if anything he'd be a moron for thinking that since he hasn't been training. He admits he's slacked off so if anything he's showing he got worse.

Also he gets mad early in the Cyborg saga that he didn't want his training to go to waste.

7. Because there's a difference between a fighting addict like Goku and Vegeta, and just treating fighting like a past time. Gohan doesn't dislike fighting, it's just not his main interest. He enjoys studying and doing other things more. I enjoy bike riding, but it's not something I commit to or enjoy that much. I enjoy other things more. He doesn't dislike fighting, he just enjoys doing other things more. Same with Goten and Trunks when they're adults. They don't dislike fighting, they just enjoy other earth hobbies a lot more.

1 - For realsies? I don't think so... What Gohan did when the Saiyans arrived? Just looked and run, got mad because Piccolo was murdered by Nappa and then used an inefficient Masenko at him. He just fought Vegeta because his dad was injured to the death and transformed into a Oozaru just for merely luck

2/3 - Why he would show displeasure? It was train to get stronger or die by the androids who would destroy the Earth. It was something totally required

4 - No, there is a scene of Gohan as Saiyaman just threatening two guys because they were driving too fast and could provoke accidents, after he demonstrate what he is capable they retreat. He only fight when is necessary.

5 - I didn't say he would get upset, but imagine if in this Tenkaichi Budokai, Goku and Vegeta were absent. Then he would have less reasons to train, but in fact he did for Goten and was more a playful thing than a training itself.

6 - He never said that, right. But is implicit, also Gohan only admited that he slacked off after Vegeta had scolded him.

7- There we go! You get what I said. Fighting is not his main interest but he do when he got no choices at all... Just like Cell, I never understood why Gohan (before SSJ2) was letting Cell beating him and he didn't wanted to counterattack, because he don't like fights, he said that to Cell.

[Hugo Boss]

Nice to see we are a little less than two weeks away from finally seeing just what Freeza's new evolution is. I guess this means it really is a new form?

I hope it is not based on Coola's final form. If it is really a new form, of course.

[FutureGohanSSJ2]

...no. You realize that going Super Saiyan wastes energy, right? He may have gone Super Saiyan self-consciously, but going Super Saiyan, if it's the exact same as base form as you say, would have done nothing but make Goku weaker, as at that point the form is just draining energy from him. But no, we see Goku kicking Beerus' ass hardcore. And go to where Beerus fires that Death Ball at him. As a Super Saiyan, he's able to somewhat hold it back. However, when he is then reverted to base form, he cannot. And then, if all 3 (base, ssj and ssjg) are the same, then why did Goku have any trouble at all with that Death Ball? Why did Goku /need/ to go SSJG? Obviously because SSJG >/= SSJ(after God boost) > Base(after God boost).
You would be correct in thinking that yes, the God form did massively improve Goku's base form. But it didn't make Goku "mystic", and no where does it say he does.

I realize going SSJ waste no energy for Goku. Why would turning SSJ subconsciously have made Goku weaker? You are also exaggerating, Goku was barely holding his own against Beerus. I think you need to rewatch that scene because Goku was being overwhelmed by Beerus ki ball to the point he himself stated the difference between them is too huge. When he reverts back to base form that is because Beerus fired more ki into his attack making it much stronger which is why Goku faltered. points is from losing SSJG, to reverting to base form, then SSJ there is zero change in Goku's performance and power level against Beerus. Don't say he wouldn't notice since earlier he knew how much power at any given time he was using against Beerus such as the 80% his full power comment. Goku would notice if his power suddenly decrease from losing SSJG or increase from using SSJ.

Again, he has to literally be told by Beerus he lost SSJG much to Goku's amazement, as far as he was concerned he was still fighting at SSJG level, therefore there was no change in his power level from base to SSJ to SSJG. If there was he would have noticed. This could change in RoF, but for the time being according to the end of BoGs, using SSJ isn't any different from using base or SSJG form now since he absorbed the realm of SSJG into his body and made it his own according to Toriyama and the movie itself.

Lolno. Going Super Saiyan uses energy. If he doesn't need it like you claim he doesn't, then he would be simply wasting energy. You do know that SSJ and all of it's forms are merely multipliers, right? How would going Super Saiyan "do nothing" and "not effect his base strength"? How does he no longer need a multiplier? That would mean all SSJ is now is a dye job and a faster energy burn.

And lol you still never explained. There's a HUGE hole in your already hole-filled theory. Why did Goku re-transform into SSJG? According to you, he doesn't need it. Base and SSJ are exactly the same in power now. Why was SSJG able to do what SSJ and Base could not? Could it be because, *gasp*, it's a stronger form!? Nah, that's just silly.

[Sinestro]

Nice to see we are a little less than two weeks away from finally seeing just what Freeza's new evolution is. I guess this means it really is a new form?

I forgot that we were getting one!

[EmmaWinters]

I threw together a poorly organized comparison of Toriyama and Toyotarō's work if anyone's interested.
There are no labels, but it should be apparent to most of you which is which.

Spoiler:

[fadeddreams5]

Nice to see we are a little less than two weeks away from finally seeing just what Freeza's new evolution is. I guess this means it really is a new form?

Everyone reading this, I want you to visualize this transformation being first form Frieza wearing lingerie, and God ki emanating from his body. It will save you from any possible disappointment.

<3

[EmmaWinters]

Everyone reading this, I want you to visualize this transformation being first form Freeza wearing lingerie, and God ki emanating from his body. It will save you from any possible disappointment.

What if that's what I want?

[Dayspring]

The rest of the events that happened in the TV special do not have to necessarily exist in Toriyama's manga.

In fact, wouldn't the totality of Dragonball Minus confirm that they don't?

That all being said, this on-going discussion about a canon for the franchise still doesn't really belong in this thread unless it's specifically being tied back to the new movie.

Noted, but do we know if Bardock is/will be among the flashbacks that Freeza has for when Goku and his cohorts defied him? Or are they exclusively pertaining to when he was killed?

[EmmaWinters]

do we know if Bardock is/will be among the flashbacks that Freeza has for when Goku and his cohorts defied him? Or are they exclusively pertaining to when he was killed?

Bardock is not shown in any of the flashbacks.

[Kakarot9001]

Nice to see we are a little less than two weeks away from finally seeing just what Freeza's new evolution is. I guess this means it really is a new form?

When they gonna reveal Freeza's further evolution?

[Dyno]

Noted, but do we know if Bardock is/will be among the flashbacks that Freeza has for when Goku and his cohorts defied him? Or are they exclusively pertaining to when he was killed?

You meant to the new movie?