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[/spoiler]Because that's Ishikawa taking care of last moments of the episode, rest of the episode we saw Tsuji taking care of corrections and many other animators as well.ArchedThunder wrote:I wonder why the art got a little weird here and there at the end of the episode.
[spoiler]
I'm guessing Ishikawa spent just a little too much time on the rest of the episode and as such didn't have quite enough time to make sure the last couple minutes looked consistent. Maybe he took Golden Week off and that's why he ended up a bit short on time.
Either way it's not a big deal, despite the art getting a bit weird at the end it's still not the worst thing in the world and as a whole the episode's art was really strong.
Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I'm really not a fan of these absurd powerups and characterization of mostly all the characters. For instance, this arc would be a little more enjoyable for me if certain characters didn't make absurd jumps of powers. Nor I'm a fan of how of the plot unfolds from event-to-event, it's like the writers never read Dragon Ball in their life. Although, I think the script writers are in-charge of the characterization from episode-to-episode. I just wish Toriyama had a more hands on approach with Super, like how George R.R. Martin has with the Game of Thrones TV show. Or with the two movies, but I do know that little preproduction or planning can stifle creativity, and the production seems to have gotten better. So I will see how the tournament plays out, my expectations aren't that high. Still I'm still expecting something that will be entertaining.dhaval_dongre wrote:
That's harsh. I don't know to what extent he handled the FT arc, but the arc had great moments and some good interaction between characters, even if the ending wasn't as good.
I don't believe that the argument of: "I'm really not a fan of these absurd powerups and characterization of mostly all the characters..." really goes here in this thread.SaiyanGod117 wrote:Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but I'm really not a fan of these absurd powerups and characterization of mostly all the characters. For instance, this arc would be a little more enjoyable for me if certain characters didn't make absurd jumps of powers. Nor I'm a fan of how of the plot unfolds from event-to-event, it's like the writers never read Dragon Ball in their life. Although, I think the script writers are in-charge of the characterization from episode-to-episode. I just wish Toriyama had a more hands on approach with Super, like how George R.R. Martin has with the Game of Thrones TV show. Or with the two movies, but I do know that little preproduction or planning can stifle creativity, and the production seems to have gotten better. So I will see how the tournament plays out, my expectations aren't that high. Still I'm still expecting something that will be entertaining.dhaval_dongre wrote:
That's harsh. I don't know to what extent he handled the FT arc, but the arc had great moments and some good interaction between characters, even if the ending wasn't as good.
I'm probably confusing things, but as far as I remember this fight was not that goodDragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Masaki Sato's constant tweets with the DB character drawings included makes me wish he had accepted the role as an animation supervisor for Dragon Ball Super. He'd make for a great director than Kitano with his artistic abilities. But with Yamamuro at the helm Sato wouldn't want to work on the series, which is darn shame. His work as an animator in Dragon Ball Z was a sight to behold, especially the fight between Trunks and Perfect Cell. After all these years of not drawing Dragon Ball, he still hasn't forgotten how to draw one.
I always impressed by even when those edits were poor they make a huge difference in Super fights overall, just bring Arai Hdenori back for f***'s sake!Hit!! wrote:My god, the classic DBZ sound effects make this fight so much better in this fan edit of episode 90's Goku vs Gohan fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwoltkx_bU4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvg6vSkqKf8
Forget the music and the voices, just focus on how well the DBZ sound effects fit in DBS action. And this is just a fan edit with poor mixing and mastering. Imagine how cool it would be if Toei decided to use the same sound effects from DB Kai in DBS. I still don't understand why they decided to use different sound effects.
I feel like Ohara is definitely one of the most underrated animators in Dragonball. He and Shida were the main driving forces behind anything interesting in the episodes Studio Last House handled. Sure his work slowly declined during the Buu arc, and a lot of his stuff in the Cell arc wasn't amazing, but even at his absolute roughest, he always attempted to make his animation interesting.Ajay wrote:That time-stamped link isn't Masaki Sato's work, it's Taiichiro Ohara's. Iffy Uchiyama corrections aside, Ohara's animation was great, and packed far more interesting movement into it than many animators on the series did at the time.
i dont see the problem in the last image.ArchedThunder wrote:I wonder why the art got a little weird here and there at the end of the episode.
[spoiler]
I'm guessing Ishikawa spent just a little too much time on the rest of the episode and as such didn't have quite enough time to make sure the last couple minutes looked consistent. Maybe he took Golden Week off and that's why he ended up a bit short on time.
Either way it's not a big deal, despite the art getting a bit weird at the end it's still not the worst thing in the world and as a whole the episode's art was really strong.
Though this may be my naturally more pessimistic nature, I don't think Super can transform itself so drastically in quality content. I don't think the show's production is in a good state or ever will be unless drastic measures are taken. This arc has definitely been a step in the right direction, with each episode being serviceable by Dragonball standards. The real thing that kicks the deal for me is the fact that I haven't thought that any of Super's arcs have been that great or even good. The first two arcs were slow and boring retellings, the universe 6 arc was only serviceable, and the Future Trunks arc was plagued with a variety of issues, each affecting the quality of the arc in a different. This arc has also been extremely slow, and although I've enjoyed their efforts to give the supporting cast more attention, I haven't enjoyed how they've flanderized a fair few of the characters.ArchedThunder wrote:Never say never. Super is likely going to be on air for many more years and if it keeps improving with each arc it should at least hit One Piece quality one day. Also I'd say we've already had some great episodes in the show, so there is that.JazzMazz wrote: I would say slowly turn it into something watchable. Super is never going to be "great" in any sense of the word. Thats just the honest truth.
It's just a pipe dream, but I'd love it if they tried to push the show further than that so that episodes were completed weeks before they air, to improve the time it takes for us to get merchandise and for characters to make it into video games. That probably won't happen though.
Reading your post is interesting since I feel the exact opposite about everything and I would but the Future Trunks Saga above all the story arcs in Z except for the Namek/Freeza Saga. Do, I can why you would be pessimistic since you haven't really liked anything about show.JazzMazz wrote: Though this may be my naturally more pessimistic nature, I don't think Super can transform itself so drastically in quality content. I don't think the show's production is in a good state or ever will be unless drastic measures are taken. This arc has definitely been a step in the right direction, with each episode being serviceable by Dragonball standards. The real thing that kicks the deal for me is the fact that I haven't thought that any of Super's arcs have been that great or even good. The first two arcs were slow and boring retellings, the universe 6 arc was only serviceable, and the Future Trunks arc was plagued with a variety of issues, each affecting the quality of the arc in a different. This arc has also been extremely slow, and although I've enjoyed their efforts to give the supporting cast more attention, I haven't enjoyed how they've flanderized a fair few of the characters.
The problems with this arc could of course be made up for if the tournament itself is Super awesome and it has an extremely satisfying conclusion, but given Super's history of being unable to do that, I'm at best skeptical of how this arc is going to turn out.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
If your asking why I'm pessimistic or still watching the show if I really haven't liked anything about it, the answer is that I have a personal investment in the franchise, and really want to see it produce something amazing. However, I also believe that having standards is important, so I judge the show according to my standards to determine if I liked it or not. Thus far, I haven't really liked what I've seen for the most part.HeroR wrote:Reading your post is interesting since I feel the exact opposite about everything and I would but the Future Trunks Saga above all the story arcs in Z except for the Namek/Freeza Saga. Do, I can why you would be pessimistic since you haven't really liked anything about show.JazzMazz wrote: Though this may be my naturally more pessimistic nature, I don't think Super can transform itself so drastically in quality content. I don't think the show's production is in a good state or ever will be unless drastic measures are taken. This arc has definitely been a step in the right direction, with each episode being serviceable by Dragonball standards. The real thing that kicks the deal for me is the fact that I haven't thought that any of Super's arcs have been that great or even good. The first two arcs were slow and boring retellings, the universe 6 arc was only serviceable, and the Future Trunks arc was plagued with a variety of issues, each affecting the quality of the arc in a different. This arc has also been extremely slow, and although I've enjoyed their efforts to give the supporting cast more attention, I haven't enjoyed how they've flanderized a fair few of the characters.
The problems with this arc could of course be made up for if the tournament itself is Super awesome and it has an extremely satisfying conclusion, but given Super's history of being unable to do that, I'm at best skeptical of how this arc is going to turn out.
That isn't what I am asking since why you watched or don't like the show is your preference. I just fine it interesting that I personally feel the exact opposite. For example, I don't care about the Saiyan Saga despite the fact everyone seems to adore it. I find it boring and I found the led up to the Saiyans better than the actual fight other than Goku vs. Vegeta. Which went downhill for me once Vegeta became a Great Ape. If this was the gold standard of Z, I wouldn't 't have like the series as much. I loved the Buu Saga since although the characters may act like idiots, it was only really limited to Vegeta who was properly punished in my opinion and Gotenks who at least gave me a fun fight.JazzMazz wrote: If your asking why I'm pessimistic or still watching the show if I really haven't liked anything about it, the answer is that I have a personal investment in the franchise, and really want to see it produce something amazing. However, I also believe that having standards is important, so I judge the show according to my standards to determine if I liked it or not. Thus far, I haven't really liked what I've seen for the most part.
For me, the only two good arcs to come out of Z would be the Saiyan and Namek/Frieza arc, with the Saiyan arc easily being the golden standard for the formula that Z would employ then on out. I didn't think the Cell arc was good, namely because all the characters made the dumbest decisions possible and none of what was learned was carried over into the Buu arc, which was slow, dumb and stupid for the most part. As much as I disliked those arcs, I believe they at least had well executed character moments throughout with iconic and memorable finales.
The future Trunks arc is a failure for me, namely due to the final act being complete bullshit. It had asspulls up the wazoo, time travel that doesn't any sense and is there only to confuse the viewer, stupid retcons that devalue previous interactions in the series and a really predictable and overly contrived ending that made the entire arc feel like it could have been ended in half the episodes it actually did.
EDIT: Realized I should probably bring it back around to the topic. Super also hasn't even been remotely consistent enough from a visual standpoint, until this tournament, to make for an engaging experience. Though Super definitely has some real highs, it's also had a lot of low points, far lower than even lowest lows of Z. Since these lows happened extremely early on in the show, and continued throughout the series up to the Future Trunks arc, where things started to improve, the is the impression it left upon a lot of people was that it looked ugly. Visually speaking, a show doesn't to be absolutely gorgeous to get a pass from me, it just needs to allow myself to immerse in it's events, if even on a basic level. That where I felt Super had a lot of issues early on. You can't be absorbed into a show if all you see, or have heard about is that it looks unwatchable.
[spoiler]How was the anime an asspull? The gave an explanation as to why Freeza got so strong. Not liking the explain is another matter. And Goku and Vegeta not mastering their forms make them mocking of Freeza's golden form look hypocritical. And Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is an asspull, but I won't go into detail here.[/spoiler]Gashif Aldi wrote:I actually felt bad for the Directors and Writers, because the adaptation of Toriyama's script is in their hands.
Knowing that they're rushed and can't keep up the quality
and it will be used in Video Games, Remakes, Action Figure, tracers (lol) and etc.
They could've executed it way better, but the schedule is pushing the quality way back.
My opinion about the writing..
[spoiler]Just like in RoF movie, why Goku that have acquired the power of God is almost on par with Golden Frieza who inly trained for 4 months?
The manga explains it because both Goku and Vegeta haven't mastered SSB yet, and the last chapter told us that. Not some asspulls like in the anime.[/spoiler]
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
I guess thats just different standards, something I agree with you on is 70's and 80's cartoons. Though they usually were fairly on-model, the animation was usually really stiff. However, I find that on-model though extremely limited movement is better recieved than slightly less limited but badly drawn animation. Those 80's shows usually only get by on the fact that they have a somewhat engaging plot, and in shows where that wasn't the case, they were often forgotten.HeroR wrote:That isn't what I am asking since why you watched or don't like the show is your preference. I just fine it interesting that I personally feel the exact opposite. For example, I don't care about the Saiyan Saga despite the fact everyone seems to adore it. I find it boring and I found the led up to the Saiyans better than the actual fight other than Goku vs. Vegeta. Which went downhill for me once Vegeta became a Great Ape. If this was the gold standard of Z, I wouldn't 't have like the series as much. I loved the Buu Saga since although the characters may act like idiots, it was only really limited to Vegeta who was properly punished in my opinion and Gotenks who at least gave me a fun fight.JazzMazz wrote: If your asking why I'm pessimistic or still watching the show if I really haven't liked anything about it, the answer is that I have a personal investment in the franchise, and really want to see it produce something amazing. However, I also believe that having standards is important, so I judge the show according to my standards to determine if I liked it or not. Thus far, I haven't really liked what I've seen for the most part.
For me, the only two good arcs to come out of Z would be the Saiyan and Namek/Frieza arc, with the Saiyan arc easily being the golden standard for the formula that Z would employ then on out. I didn't think the Cell arc was good, namely because all the characters made the dumbest decisions possible and none of what was learned was carried over into the Buu arc, which was slow, dumb and stupid for the most part. As much as I disliked those arcs, I believe they at least had well executed character moments throughout with iconic and memorable finales.
The future Trunks arc is a failure for me, namely due to the final act being complete bullshit. It had asspulls up the wazoo, time travel that doesn't any sense and is there only to confuse the viewer, stupid retcons that devalue previous interactions in the series and a really predictable and overly contrived ending that made the entire arc feel like it could have been ended in half the episodes it actually did.
EDIT: Realized I should probably bring it back around to the topic. Super also hasn't even been remotely consistent enough from a visual standpoint, until this tournament, to make for an engaging experience. Though Super definitely has some real highs, it's also had a lot of low points, far lower than even lowest lows of Z. Since these lows happened extremely early on in the show, and continued throughout the series up to the Future Trunks arc, where things started to improve, the is the impression it left upon a lot of people was that it looked ugly. Visually speaking, a show doesn't to be absolutely gorgeous to get a pass from me, it just needs to allow myself to immerse in it's events, if even on a basic level. That where I felt Super had a lot of issues early on. You can't be absorbed into a show if all you see, or have heard about is that it looks unwatchable.
As for the Future Trunks Saga, yeah opposite opinion. The only real asspull to me was the Spirit Bomb, the time travel made perfect sense to me since it's a very simple stable time loop and I don't see how it was confusing other than trying say that there was no time loop, I loved the Vegetto retcon because it explained what happened in the Buu Saga instead the 'bad air' explanation we got before (which is a plot hole since why didn't Gotenks defused), and I don't see how the ending was predictable. I have seen people predict Zen'o coming and destroying the timeline, but most predictable that Future Trunks and Mai would stay in the present and the character we got to know would survived. The most comment theory I personally saw was that Zen'o would fixed everything.
I have never found Super unwatchable even at the worst of time. I grew up on 70s and 80s cartoons that were worst animated than Super so off model shots aren't going to bother me now.
The problem was that they were on model to the point of being stiffer than cardboard, especially Transformers. I loved the 80s TMNT, but the animation was stiff at times, they kept getting the turtles' color wrong, and they were a lot of animation errors. I have the same problem with Fist of the North Star. Everything just feels stiff. As for Fist of the North Star's story, I find it okay with moments of brilliances. But, it isn't my favorite anime. I personally didn't find the characters in the Fist of the North Star that memorable outside of Ren and Toki. Kenshiro just feels bland with only him being a badass standing out and the only really good villain was Raoh since he had other motives other than being a dick and needlessly cruel, at least after his first appearance.JazzMazz wrote: I guess thats just different standards, something I agree with you on is 70's and 80's cartoons. Though they usually were fairly on-model, the animation was usually really stiff. However, I find that on-model though extremely limited movement is better recieved than slightly less limited but badly drawn animation. Those 80's shows usually only get by on the fact that they have a somewhat engaging plot, and in shows where that wasn't the case, they were often forgotten.
An anime that I absolutely adore despite the issues I had with it in it's fourth chapter, is the original Hokuto No Ken made in the 80's. From a visual standpoint, it's not great, the art can be really nice, but the movement is pretty much always extremely limited. What makes it so endearing in my mind, is how engrossing the actual story and characters were.(until they #%#@ed in it's absolutely dreadful second season). I hold the original Hokuto No Ken in a higher regard than Z, because although Z was definitely stronger from a visual standpoint, I find Hokuto No Ken is stronger from a story-telling and character stand-point.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
To be honest, I found Zamasu boring after a while and I feel like we should have higher standards of what we want from Dragonball, espicially since I found the final act of the Future Trunks arc, made the rest of the arc and actions taken by the characters completely pointless.HeroR wrote:The problem was that they were on model to the point of being stiffer than cardboard, especially Transformers. I loved the 80s TMNT, but the animation was stiff at times, they kept getting the turtles' color wrong, and they were a lot of animation errors. I have the same problem with Fist of the North Star. Everything just feels stiff. As for Fist of the North Star's story, I find it okay with moments of brilliances. But, it isn't my favorite anime. I personally didn't find the characters in the Fist of the North Star that memorable outside of Ren and Toki. Kenshiro just feels bland with only him being a badass standing out and the only really good villain was Raoh since he had other motives other than being a dick and needlessly cruel, at least after his first appearance.JazzMazz wrote: I guess thats just different standards, something I agree with you on is 70's and 80's cartoons. Though they usually were fairly on-model, the animation was usually really stiff. However, I find that on-model though extremely limited movement is better recieved than slightly less limited but badly drawn animation. Those 80's shows usually only get by on the fact that they have a somewhat engaging plot, and in shows where that wasn't the case, they were often forgotten.
An anime that I absolutely adore despite the issues I had with it in it's fourth chapter, is the original Hokuto No Ken made in the 80's. From a visual standpoint, it's not great, the art can be really nice, but the movement is pretty much always extremely limited. What makes it so endearing in my mind, is how engrossing the actual story and characters were.(until they #%#@ed in it's absolutely dreadful second season). I hold the original Hokuto No Ken in a higher regard than Z, because although Z was definitely stronger from a visual standpoint, I find Hokuto No Ken is stronger from a story-telling and character stand-point.
Dragon Ball has very simple storyteller as a whole. But what keeps me coming back are the characters. What I liked about the Future Trunks Saga is that he had a strong story to tell with engaging characters that felt alive. Yeah, stories like the Future Trunks Saga have been told better in other places and Zamasu isn't breaking new ground as a villain, but the way it was presented to me felt like "Dragon Ball of the 21st century".
A show that I love despite the stiff and questionable animation, other than the 80s TNMT, was the Flintstones.
I found Future Zamasu hilarious since he fully admitted to being a self-absorbed jerk and I found him as a Take That to the well-intention villains we have gotten in the last decade. He reminds me of Light from Death Note except no one pretends he has a point since he's a hypocritical murderer. He is what I expect from modern Dragon Ball after Beerus.JazzMazz wrote: To be honest, I found Zamasu boring after a while and I feel like we should have higher standards of what we want from Dragonball, espicially since I found the final act of the Future Trunks arc, made the rest of the arc and actions taken by the characters completely pointless.
Super Saiyan Rage was no more than an asspull than Super Saiyan 3, and even we it was a transformation of anger, something we have seen several times in this series. Also, how is the Final Flash an asspull since he trained with Vegeta and the Final Flash isn't exactly a complicated technique. And the Spirit Bomb was an asspull, but do you really have to assign a random number of people since such a thing was never stated?Gashif Aldi wrote:Super Saiyan Rage itself is an asspull, same with Final Flash...especially that Spirit Bomb that only have like 200 people's spirit.
4 months of training equals a trained Super Saiyan God that has fought the GoD himself. Of course they have not mastered it yet, and the 1/17 power rule makes sense in the manga.It is stated that Normal Ki is nothing compared to God Ki. After BoG movie, everything is hard to accept for me.
The point is anyway...
They could do it way better (if the schedule was good), for the writing, and some of the writing probably goes to trash because lack of time for animation.
A bit too off-topic.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
The message I recieved from the ending of the arc was that even if you stuff up colossally, the God's will always be there to solve your problems for you, meaning everything you do is irrelevant, so just let the Gods handle it. Trunks didn't try, the victory was given to him through an asspull that makes no sense. They even managed to make death matter even less than it currently does, after all, they can simply just go to another timeline. If you wanted to make it a remind that just because you try hard, doesn't mean you will succeed, then don't give them the illusion of victory, make them lose flat out, and make them actually try, not win through some random asspull that came out of nowhere.HeroR wrote:I found Future Zamasu hilarious since he fully admitted to being a self-absorbed jerk and I found him as a Take That to the well-intention villains we have gotten in the last decade. He reminds me of Light from Death Note except no one pretends he has a point since he's a hypocritical murderer. He is what I expect from modern Dragon Ball after Beerus.JazzMazz wrote: To be honest, I found Zamasu boring after a while and I feel like we should have higher standards of what we want from Dragonball, espicially since I found the final act of the Future Trunks arc, made the rest of the arc and actions taken by the characters completely pointless.
And the final leg of the arc, I adore. Because it is a reminder, "just because you try hard, doesn't mean you will succeed". A big step away form the "determination always win" mindset of Z.
