Dragon Ball Super: TV Ratings Discussion Thread

[Hellspawn28]

Not surprised about Bleach and Toriko. But how their animes were produced contributed to their downfall in popularity in Japan.

Toriko seem like it was popular for a few years and died out quickly. Bleach was huge in 2004 - 2008, but it seem like it started to die down a bit around 2009-2010. By 2011 and 2012, the anime was over and people already lost interest by then.

[Bullza]

Bleach was something I looked into. The manga sales dropped significantly once the Aizen saga ended and the anime ratings dropped significantly also after the Aizen saga ended.

That was why they cancelled the anime.

The manga is terrible now so it's always near the bottom of the rankings and each volume usually sells worse than the previous one.

[Araki]

Toriko seem like it was popular for a few years and died out quickly. Bleach was huge in 2004 - 2008, but it seem like it started to die down a bit around 2009-2010. By 2011 and 2012, the anime was over and people already lost interest by then.

Toriko was part of Shueisha's desperate search for another huge hit, but i think it was never a big deal. Even with all the push it got from them and Toei, it never managed to get the sales boost other series had after getting animes. Hell, the movie was probably Toei's most massive failure in recent years.

The manga is terrible now so it's always near the bottom of the rankings and each volume usually sells worse than the previous one.

Bleach is pretty much done. As much as the ratings weren't great, it's a good example of how badly a franchise can be affected by having an anime pulled off the air. It's kind of proportional to the boost earning an anime adaptation can do.

[LightBing]

I watched Bleach, never read the manga. The anime suffered from long filler arcs, with the last arc which was adapted material being simply terrible. That's when they pulled the plug on the anime. I don't know if the story improved but the main factor for Bleach decline was the aggravating quality, the anime finishing was a consequence from that.

[Araki]

I watched Bleach, never read the manga. The anime suffered from long filler arcs, with the last arc which was adapted material being simply terrible. That's when they pulled the plug on the anime. I don't know if the story improved but the main factor for Bleach decline was the aggravating quality, the anime finishing was a consequence from that.

After the Soul Society arc, Bleach was in decline already. But the manga sales weren't badly affected until after the anime ended, despite the drop in quality.
It's incredibly important for a manga to have an anime airing, it's almost guaranteed to bump sales while it's being adapted, especially with good timeslots. Not even Shingeki no Kyojin is selling the same without its anime.

[Bullza]

Well Bleach's sales never dropped after the anime ended which is what a lot of defenders of the series say.

The series saw the start of a decline on two occasions. The first was when the Aizen saga ended (the anime was still airing) and the second was when it became terrible with all the Captain vs Sternritter filler fights that lasted up till now, 2+ years of repetitive filler fights has put people off the series.

There was never a drop after the anime ended, sales were very consistent and even increased a bit with the start of the Blood War arc.

[Araki]

There was never a drop after the anime ended, sales were very consistent and even increased a bit with the start of the Blood War arc.

The Oricon numbers would disagree with that.

Bleach total sales in 2011:

Bleach #48 845,791
Bleach #49 714,990
Bleach #50 682,527
Bleach #51 682,527
Bleach #52 574,504

Bleach sold a total of 4,187,258.

2012 (the anime ends in March):

Bleach #53 640,938
Bleach #54 653,085
Bleach #55 742,823
Bleach #56 600,915

total sales this year: 2,974,750

2013 (first full year without the anime)

Bleach #57 660,646
Bleach #58 639,122
Bleach #59 627,996
Bleach #60 581,422

total: 2,752,588

Thing is, the drop may not seem significant to the new volumes, but you have to consider the backlog sales too. They're the most affected when there's no anime, since the potential to attract new fans is much smaller, so the total sales dropped a lot.

Just to further my point:

2010 - 5,204,193
2014 - 2,986,968
2015 - 2,818,926

It's been consistent, but it can never reach the numbers it was getting with the anime, and the drop in 2012/2013 was too noticeable to ignore.

[Theophrastus]

Japanese Bleach fans fucking hated the Fullbring arc for some reason. That arc tanked its rankings in Weekly Jump, and that drop carried over to the TV anime which is what ultimately got it cancelled. A lot of people dropped the series once the whole Arrancar saga ended (at least partly because it got terrible near the end), but something about the Fullbring arc seriously pissed off even the people who decided to continue following it after that. Bleach is basically down to just the hardcore fans now (in Japan).

For references sake, the Fullbring arc comprises volumes 49-54.

[Bullza]

The Oricon numbers would disagree with that.

They match what I said and what you just posted.

Volume 48 was the final volume of the Aizen saga. As you can see the sales began to drop significantly after that point not after the anime ended. In fact the first volume to come out after the anime ended (Vol 55) was the best selling volume since Vol 48.

Here's a rundown of the volume, the sales and after how many days.

Vol 48 - 690k - 17 days - End of Aizen saga
Vol 49 - 614k - 18 days
Vol 50 - 567k - 17 days
Vol 51 - 544k - 18 days
Vol 52 - 486k - 13 days
Vol 53 - 493k - 17 days
Vol 54 - 528k - 17 days

Anime ends

Vol 55 - 604k - 14 days - Start of Bloodwar Arc. It also came with something.
Vol 56 - 530k - 20 days
Vol 57 - 527k - 20 days
Vol 58 - 535k - 21 days
Vol 59 - 529k - 20 days

So over a year after the anime ended the sales were consistent and were still selling on par with a few of the volumes prior to the anime ending. But then the manga went shit and it started to decline again.

Vol 60 - 493k - 17 days
Vol 62 - 506k - 20 days
Vol 64 - 468k - 18 days
Vol 66 - 470k - 20 days
Vol 68 - 412k - 17 days
Vol 70 - 392k - 19 days

[Lord Beerus]

Anime News Network also did a really good article that explores what caused Bleach's downfall in popularity.

[Bullza]

That was a good article and I agree with pretty much everything he said. At the moment I've been reading the chapters as they come out but I also started over from the beginning by reading the 3 in 1 volumes I got and they're like 2 completely different series.

Bleach up through to the end of the Soul Society arc was just as good as anything One Piece or Naruto was putting out at the time.

And this

When Aizen was defeated, the story felt finished. A ton of people stopped reading at that point, even though it was widely known that the series would be continuing anyway. Interest in Bleach had already lowered thanks to its drop in quality, but people's sense of completionism kept them wanting to know how the battle against Aizen would end. Even for those who enjoyed the entire war against Aizen, his defeat had been the perceived endpoint of the series for years. Once fans finally got that closure, they were done.

Is exactly why the sales dropped off so quickly after Vol 48. During the Fake Karakura Town arc people were already complaining about the series but people knew it was coming to an end so people stuck with it.

Once the arc was over people jumped ship. The series should 100% have definitley ended with Aizen.

[voltlunok]

And this

When Aizen was defeated, the story felt finished. A ton of people stopped reading at that point, even though it was widely known that the series would be continuing anyway. Interest in Bleach had already lowered thanks to its drop in quality, but people's sense of completionism kept them wanting to know how the battle against Aizen would end. Even for those who enjoyed the entire war against Aizen, his defeat had been the perceived endpoint of the series for years. Once fans finally got that closure, they were done.

Is exactly why the sales dropped off so quickly after Vol 48. During the Fake Karakura Town arc people were already complaining about the series but people knew it was coming to an end so people stuck with it.

Once the arc was over people jumped ship. The series should 100% have definitley ended with Aizen.

In all honesty, I jumped ship pretty soon after Grimmjow's end. He really was a one in a million kind of character with me and I really wish Kubo went the Vegeta Route with him...I stuck around for the inevitable Full Hollow Ichigo vs Ulquiorra fight but after that I just stopped caring. My favorite was dead and while my second favorite got a kick ass fight (Kenpachi destroying what's his face was glorious.) it felt like Kubo was spinning his wheels to gain some chapter miles before really advancing things to their predictable ending.

[Bullza]

Well funnily enough Grimmjow came back into it and is fighting with the good guys right now.

[irreality]

This week's ratings (episode 44):
Crayon Shin-chan 8.3
Sazae-san 7.7
Doraemon 7.6
One Piece 7.1
Detective Conan 6.6
Chibi Maruko-chan 5.6
Dragon Ball Super 5.2
Ace Attorney 3.6
Go! Go! Chaginton! 3.3
Pokemon 3.2

Way to go, Crayon Shin chan! Why is Sazae-san so low?

[Lord Beerus]

Every show slumped a good bit from last week, but Sazae-san's ratings absolutely plummeted. What happened?

[Sodhi]

poor precure and yokai watch aren't even in the top 10 anymore. Sazae-San that low is pretty strange.

[Konig]

Wow! Such low ratings. What happened?

[Araki]

I don't know what was going on this weekend, but once again, it seems Doraemon and Shin-chan were safe as their aired on Friday.

They match what I said and what you just posted.

They don't, i think you've missed the part about the total sales. let's go at it again:

2010: 5,204,193
2011: 4,187,258
2012 (anime ends): 2,974,750
2013: 2,752,588
2014: 2,986,968
2015: 2,818,926

The total sales were in decline along with the quality already, but there was a sudden drop as soon as the anime ended. As i said:

"the drop may not seem significant to the new volumes, but you have to consider the backlog sales too. They're the most affected when there's no anime, since the potential to attract new fans is much smaller, so the total sales dropped a lot."

My point was that when an anime is successful on tv (or a movie explodes), even the old volumes keep selling, as you're often attracting new fans. You're looking only at new releases, days, whatever, but that's not everything.
To sum things up, it's like a franchise stops growing when it loses the anime, save for rare exceptions.

[coola]

I admit i don't understand how TV ratings work, shows like Aikatsu and Sailor Moon Crystal don't appear on list, but on DVD/BD sales list, they are often in weekly top 10, are ratings made for just one or two channels?

[Araki]

I admit i don't understand how TV ratings work, shows like Aikatsu and Sailor Moon Crystal don't appear on list, but on DVD/BD sales list, they are often in weekly top 10, are ratings made for just one or two channels?

No, every anime in every channel counts. Sailor Moon and Aikatsu just don't get that high ratings.
And this season of Sailor Moon didn't start to be released on blu-ray/dvd yet.