"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

In this arc: SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ2 Black > Base Black > SSJ3 Goku. Why is Vegeta's SSJ2 so much stronger than Goku's SSJ3?
In the U6 Arc: SSJ Goku => 10% SSBlue Vegeta. This also makes no sense.

Don't know what you are talking about SSJ Goku being stronger than SSB Vegeta in the U6 arc.
But Vegeta's SSJ2 being stronger than Goku's SSJ3 is a canon fact, stated and shown in BOG movie.

What powers were changed?

Toriyama went from saying that Base and Super Saiyan would be the only forms going forward to replacing SS1 with Blue to bringing back the first SS form then bringing back SS2 and SS3 AND allowing SSGod to come back as well for the manga. To say his "rules" are loose is like saying Freeza was only a bit of an asshole.

I don't understand what you are saying.
Got the quote?

[TheUltimateNinja]

In this arc: SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ2 Black > Base Black > SSJ3 Goku. Why is Vegeta's SSJ2 so much stronger than Goku's SSJ3?
In the U6 Arc: SSJ Goku => 10% SSBlue Vegeta. This also makes no sense.

Don't know what you are talking about SSJ Goku being stronger than SSB Vegeta in the U6 arc.
But Vegeta's SSJ2 being stronger than Goku's SSJ3 is a canon fact, stated and shown in BOG movie.

The BoG thing was just a rage boost.

And Beerus said SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit.

[Miracles]

In this arc: SSJ2 Vegeta > SSJ2 Black > Base Black > SSJ3 Goku. Why is Vegeta's SSJ2 so much stronger than Goku's SSJ3?
In the U6 Arc: SSJ Goku => 10% SSBlue Vegeta. This also makes no sense.

Don't know what you are talking about SSJ Goku being stronger than SSB Vegeta in the U6 arc.
But Vegeta's SSJ2 being stronger than Goku's SSJ3 is a canon fact, stated and shown in BOG movie.

The BoG thing was just a rage boost.
And Beerus said SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit.

Where did Beerus state this?
Also the BOG was not a rage boost. It was never stated, that is a fan explanation. The canon clearly stated that Vegeta has surpassed Goku and demonstrated such against Beerus.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Don't know what you are talking about SSJ Goku being stronger than SSB Vegeta in the U6 arc.
But Vegeta's SSJ2 being stronger than Goku's SSJ3 is a canon fact, stated and shown in BOG movie.

The BoG thing was just a rage boost.
And Beerus said SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit.

Where did Beerus state this?
Also the BOG was not a rage boost. It was never stated, that is a fan explanation. The canon clearly stated that Vegeta has surpassed Goku and demonstrated such against Beerus.

He got angry, powered up and attacked, and then powered down immediately after. There's no indication at all that this is a permanent power up, and it never appears again in the anime.

And Beerus said it while Goku was fighting Hit as an SSJ.

[Miracles]

The BoG thing was just a rage boost.
And Beerus said SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit.

Where did Beerus state this?
Also the BOG was not a rage boost. It was never stated, that is a fan explanation. The canon clearly stated that Vegeta has surpassed Goku and demonstrated such against Beerus.

He got angry, powered up and attacked, and then powered down immediately after. There's no indication at all that this is a permanent power up, and it never appears again in the anime.

And Beerus said it while Goku was fighting Hit as an SSJ.

This is why I said fan explanatios are what mess up the story. Beerus never stated Goku's SSJ was stronger than hit, he said that Goku's God mode was stronger than Vegeta's Blue due to the fact that he wasted his energy using it in succession. Hence why Hit just owns him. Also, You are making up your own assumptions concerning vegeta, The canon clearly stated that was a power that "exceeded" Goku, it never said it was temporary or a rage boost, only you suggest that. And it is clearly brought up again in the canon manga where Vegeta's SSJ2 bodied Black.

[TheUltimateNinja]

This is why I said fan explanatios are what mess up the story. Beerus never stated Goku's SSJ was stronger than hit, he said that Goku's God mode was stronger than Vegeta's Blue due to the fact that he wasted his energy using it in succession. Hence why Hit just owns him. Also, You are making up your own assumptions concerning vegeta, The canon clearly stated that was a power that "exceeded" Goku, it never said it was temporary or a rage boost, only you suggest that. And it is clearly brought up again in the canon manga where Vegeta's SSJ2 bodied Black.

No, Beerus clearly says Goku's stronger when he's still using SSJ. You should at least read the manga before you get into arguments about it.

[Miracles]

This is why I said fan explanatios are what mess up the story. Beerus never stated Goku's SSJ was stronger than hit, he said that Goku's God mode was stronger than Vegeta's Blue due to the fact that he wasted his energy using it in succession. Hence why Hit just owns him. Also, You are making up your own assumptions concerning vegeta, The canon clearly stated that was a power that "exceeded" Goku, it never said it was temporary or a rage boost, only you suggest that. And it is clearly brought up again in the canon manga where Vegeta's SSJ2 bodied Black.

No, Beerus clearly says Goku's stronger when he's still using SSJ. You should at least read the manga before you get into arguments about it.

I do read the manga properly with understanding. Beerus clearly states Goku has the advantage over Hit in power alone, and goes on to say if it wasn't for Hit using cheap tricks, in other words "Time leap." Does not mean Hit is overall weaker than Goku's SSJ. If that were the case Goku would not need to go god mode next panel and battle Hit evenly with it. Also, I know how to read posts from fans carefully too because you clearly thought this assumed that SSJ1 was stronger than vegeta's Blue form, yet Whis and Beerus later on goes on to explain that isn't the case.

[TheUltimateNinja]

This is why I said fan explanatios are what mess up the story. Beerus never stated Goku's SSJ was stronger than hit, he said that Goku's God mode was stronger than Vegeta's Blue due to the fact that he wasted his energy using it in succession. Hence why Hit just owns him. Also, You are making up your own assumptions concerning vegeta, The canon clearly stated that was a power that "exceeded" Goku, it never said it was temporary or a rage boost, only you suggest that. And it is clearly brought up again in the canon manga where Vegeta's SSJ2 bodied Black.

No, Beerus clearly says Goku's stronger when he's still using SSJ. You should at least read the manga before you get into arguments about it.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

I do read the manga properly with understanding. Beerus clearly states Goku has the advantage over Hit in power alone, and goes on to say if it wasn't for Hit using cheap tricks, in other words "Time leap." Does not mean Hit is overall weaker than Goku's SSJ. If that were the case Goku would not need to go god mode next panel and battle Hit evenly with it. Also, I know how to read posts from fans carefully too because you clearly thought this assumed that SSJ1 was stronger than vegeta's Blue form, yet Whis and Beerus later on goes on to explain that isn't the case.

The word "stronger" clearly refers to power, and you said Beerus never stated SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit. And Whis says that the timeskip won't work properly unless the opponent is near or below Hit's level, and it worked perfectly on 10% SSBlue Vegeta, at best he's equal to SSJ Goku.

[Lord Beerus]

No, Beerus clearly says Goku's stronger when he's still using SSJ. You should at least read the manga before you get into arguments about it.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

I do read the manga properly with understanding. Beerus clearly states Goku has the advantage over Hit in power alone, and goes on to say if it wasn't for Hit using cheap tricks, in other words "Time leap." Does not mean Hit is overall weaker than Goku's SSJ. If that were the case Goku would not need to go god mode next panel and battle Hit evenly with it. Also, I know how to read posts from fans carefully too because you clearly thought this assumed that SSJ1 was stronger than vegeta's Blue form, yet Whis and Beerus later on goes on to explain that isn't the case.

The word "stronger" clearly refers to power, and you said Beerus never stated SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit. And Whis says that the timeskip won't work properly unless the opponent is near or below Hit's level, and it worked perfectly on 10% SSBlue Vegeta, at best he's equal to SSJ Goku.

Which in retrospect makes Super Saiyan Blue, and especially Super Saiyan God, a joke.

[HeroR]

I am also curious how the manga will end the arc. Will it be similar to the anime, Trunks' timeline gets wiped or will it be a happy ending?

Will Trunks even get that rage form i wonder.

I really hope to see none of those, I have faith that Toyotaro will bring this arc ending to justice

Nope is going to have the same ending because in the teaser for the universe survival arc manga there two Zeno

Yup that's seem to be the case probably he's obsessed with battling strong opponent like trunks. But I do wonder did goku black in the anime said that trunks is the key to make him stronger,because is weird that goku black for one year did not kill trunks or Mai

Nope. Black found Trunks as an annoyance and tried to kill him every chance he got in the anime. He was happy with just trapping Trunks in the past since he was the only one able to fight him. Nothing in the anime states that Black purposely spared him.

The only worthy opponent Black liked was Goku.

wow goku black is an idiot because he lasted one year without killing trunks I call BS

It was mostly luck, Trunks knowing when to hide, and Mai helped him to escape.

[Miracles]

No, Beerus clearly says Goku's stronger when he's still using SSJ. You should at least read the manga before you get into arguments about it.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

I do read the manga properly with understanding. Beerus clearly states Goku has the advantage over Hit in power alone, and goes on to say if it wasn't for Hit using cheap tricks, in other words "Time leap." Does not mean Hit is overall weaker than Goku's SSJ. If that were the case Goku would not need to go god mode next panel and battle Hit evenly with it. Also, I know how to read posts from fans carefully too because you clearly thought this assumed that SSJ1 was stronger than vegeta's Blue form, yet Whis and Beerus later on goes on to explain that isn't the case.

The word "stronger" clearly refers to power, and you said Beerus never stated SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit. And Whis says that the timeskip won't work properly unless the opponent is near or below Hit's level, and it worked perfectly on 10% SSBlue Vegeta, at best he's equal to SSJ Goku.

It only worked perfectly on SSJB Vegeta Because he used all of his energy against the robot. Vegeta losing to Hit had nothing to do with Hit or Goku being stronger, he just had no energy to sustain SSJB. That's right, I stated Beerus never said SSJ1 Goku was stronger than Hit; In OVERALL power. And he did not, which is the truth. Cause Hit fought a stronger Goku in god mode later. You're entire premise was SSJ1 Goku > SSJB Vegeta, you assumed Beerus meant overall power, which is flat out wrong.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I do read the manga properly with understanding. Beerus clearly states Goku has the advantage over Hit in power alone, and goes on to say if it wasn't for Hit using cheap tricks, in other words "Time leap." Does not mean Hit is overall weaker than Goku's SSJ. If that were the case Goku would not need to go god mode next panel and battle Hit evenly with it. Also, I know how to read posts from fans carefully too because you clearly thought this assumed that SSJ1 was stronger than vegeta's Blue form, yet Whis and Beerus later on goes on to explain that isn't the case.

The word "stronger" clearly refers to power, and you said Beerus never stated SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit. And Whis says that the timeskip won't work properly unless the opponent is near or below Hit's level, and it worked perfectly on 10% SSBlue Vegeta, at best he's equal to SSJ Goku.

It only worked perfectly on SSJB Vegeta Because he was weaker than Hit because he used all of his energy against Botamo. Vegeta losing to Hit had nothing to do with Hit or Goku being stronger he had no energy to sustain SSJB. That's right, I stated Beerus never said SSJ1 Goku was stronger than Hit; In OVERALL power. And he did not which is the truth. You're entire premise was SSJ1 Goku > SSJB Vegeta, you assumed Beerus meant overall power, which is flat out wrong. Cause Hit fought a stronger Goku in god mode later.

Vegeta never fought Botamo, Goku beat him. Did you even read the manga? And Goku was stronger than Hit in "overall" power, Hit would have been destroyed if he didn't have the timeskip to save him. And Vegeta only lost around ~90% of his power.

[Miracles]

The word "stronger" clearly refers to power, and you said Beerus never stated SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit. And Whis says that the timeskip won't work properly unless the opponent is near or below Hit's level, and it worked perfectly on 10% SSBlue Vegeta, at best he's equal to SSJ Goku.

It only worked perfectly on SSJB Vegeta Because he was weaker than Hit because he used all of his energy against Botamo. Vegeta losing to Hit had nothing to do with Hit or Goku being stronger he had no energy to sustain SSJB. That's right, I stated Beerus never said SSJ1 Goku was stronger than Hit; In OVERALL power. And he did not which is the truth. You're entire premise was SSJ1 Goku > SSJB Vegeta, you assumed Beerus meant overall power, which is flat out wrong. Cause Hit fought a stronger Goku in god mode later.

Goku was stronger than Hit in "overall" power, Hit would have been destroyed if he didn't have the timeskip to save him. And Vegeta only lost 90% of his power.

The fact remains SSJB could not be used in succession because no energy to sustain it as stated by whis. Goku's SSJ1 being stronger than Hit in overall power is not canon, it is fan made cause Goku should have been faster than Hit's time skip in SSJ1 mode then if that were true. We all know he wasn't.

[TheUltimateNinja]

It only worked perfectly on SSJB Vegeta Because he was weaker than Hit because he used all of his energy against Botamo. Vegeta losing to Hit had nothing to do with Hit or Goku being stronger he had no energy to sustain SSJB. That's right, I stated Beerus never said SSJ1 Goku was stronger than Hit; In OVERALL power. And he did not which is the truth. You're entire premise was SSJ1 Goku > SSJB Vegeta, you assumed Beerus meant overall power, which is flat out wrong. Cause Hit fought a stronger Goku in god mode later.

Goku was stronger than Hit in "overall" power, Hit would have been destroyed if he didn't have the timeskip to save him. And Vegeta only lost 90% of his power.

The fact remains SSJB could not be used in succession because no energy to sustain it as stated by whis. Goku being stronger than Hit in overall power is not canon, it is fan made cause Goku should have been faster than Hit's time skip in SSJ1 mode then if that were true. We all know he wasn't.

Whis said Vegeta still had ~10% of his energy left. And Goku was faster than Hit, he was able to predict and block his movements despite the timeskip. Goku was literally keeping up with Hit even though Hit could stop time for 0.1s, he's definitely a lot faster.

[DBZ Macky]

I think of it like this; when Vegeta reverted to base from SSB, he lost 90% of his overall stamina.
If I had to give numbers:

-Before-
Vegeta- 1
SS Vegeta- 50
SSB Vegeta- 500

-After reverting back-
Vegeta- 0.1
SS Vegeta- 5
SSB Vegeta- 50

[Miracles]

Goku was stronger than Hit in "overall" power, Hit would have been destroyed if he didn't have the timeskip to save him. And Vegeta only lost 90% of his power.

The fact remains SSJB could not be used in succession because no energy to sustain it as stated by whis. Goku being stronger than Hit in overall power is not canon, it is fan made cause Goku should have been faster than Hit's time skip in SSJ1 mode then if that were true. We all know he wasn't.

Whis said Vegeta still had ~10% of his energy left. And Goku was faster than Hit, he was able to predict and block his movements despite the timeskip. Goku was literally keeping up with Hit even though Hit could stop time for 0.1s, he's definitely a lot faster.

Wow, you are obviously not reading the story, you prove my point again that fans mess up the story not the author. You are not even in the ball park in thinking SSJ1 Goku is faster and stronger than Hit when Hit was clearly holding back when he powered up to full power against Goku's god mode! Then became a stronger version of himself which means a longer time stop. You clearly are wrong. about Vegeta too, Whis stated that vegeta "wasn't able to even exert 1/10 of his usual strength" So you are wrong again stating Vegeta had 10/% when the canon says otherwise. Why are you just making up devices now just to make yourself look like you have an argument instead of admitting you were mistaken?

[TheUltimateNinja]

The fact remains SSJB could not be used in succession because no energy to sustain it as stated by whis. Goku being stronger than Hit in overall power is not canon, it is fan made cause Goku should have been faster than Hit's time skip in SSJ1 mode then if that were true. We all know he wasn't.

Whis said Vegeta still had ~10% of his energy left. And Goku was faster than Hit, he was able to predict and block his movements despite the timeskip. Goku was literally keeping up with Hit even though Hit could stop time for 0.1s, he's definitely a lot faster.

Wow, you are obviously not reading the story, you prove my point again that fans mess up the story not the author. You are not even in the ball park in thinking SSJ1 Goku is faster and stronger than Hit when Hit was clearly holding back when he powered up to full power against Goku's god mode! Then became a stronger version of himself which means a longer time stop. You clearly are wrong. about Vegeta too, Whis stated that vegeta "wasn't able to even exert 1/10 of his usual strength" So you are wrong again stating Vegeta had 10/% when the canon says otherwise. Why are you just making up devices now just to make yourself look like you have an argument instead of admitting you were mistaken?

That's rich coming from you, when did Vegeta fight Botamo?

[Miracles]

Whis said Vegeta still had ~10% of his energy left. And Goku was faster than Hit, he was able to predict and block his movements despite the timeskip. Goku was literally keeping up with Hit even though Hit could stop time for 0.1s, he's definitely a lot faster.

Wow, you are obviously not reading the story, you prove my point again that fans mess up the story not the author. You are not even in the ball park in thinking SSJ1 Goku is faster and stronger than Hit when Hit was clearly holding back when he powered up to full power against Goku's god mode! Then became a stronger version of himself which means a longer time stop. You clearly are wrong. about Vegeta too, Whis stated that vegeta "wasn't able to even exert 1/10 of his usual strength" So you are wrong again stating Vegeta had 10/% when the canon says otherwise. Why are you just making up devices now just to make yourself look like you have an argument instead of admitting you were mistaken?

That's rich coming from you, when did Vegeta fight Botamo?

That's obviously an honest mistake, I didn't remember the robots name.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Wow, you are obviously not reading the story, you prove my point again that fans mess up the story not the author. You are not even in the ball park in thinking SSJ1 Goku is faster and stronger than Hit when Hit was clearly holding back when he powered up to full power against Goku's god mode! Then became a stronger version of himself which means a longer time stop. You clearly are wrong. about Vegeta too, Whis stated that vegeta "wasn't able to even exert 1/10 of his usual strength" So you are wrong again stating Vegeta had 10/% when the canon says otherwise. Why are you just making up devices now just to make yourself look like you have an argument instead of admitting you were mistaken?

That's rich coming from you, when did Vegeta fight Botamo?

That's obviously an honest mistakje, I didn't remember the robots name.

Vegeta didn't use his energy up against "Botamo", he didn't even use SSBlue. He went Blue against Cabba who he fought after Botamo, and that's when he lost his energy. I wonder how you think you can discuss anything on this topic when you don't even know these basic facts.

Edit: Oops, looks like I accidentally called him Botamo as well. Anyway, the point is he didn't lose his energy against Magetta.

[Miracles]

That's rich coming from you, when did Vegeta fight Botamo?

That's obviously an honest mistakje, I didn't remember the robots name.

Vegeta didn't use his energy up against "Botamo", he didn't even use SSBlue. He went Blue against Cabba who he fought after Botamo, and that's when he lost his energy. I wonder how you think you can discuss anything on this topic when you don't even know these basic facts.

Edit: Oops, looks like I accidentally called him Botamo as well. Anyway, the point is he didn't lose his energy against Magetta.

Dude chill, you're trying to play get back at em now, you've cleared that up, thank you.