The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kid Buu]

If Goku Potara fused with Kaioshin; what is the strongest version of Buu you think he could take?

[Kaboom]

The "strongest ki I've ever felt" lines do not have to include the person saying it. Goku said the same thing about the fat Janemba... then proceeded to easily whoop him with Super Saiyan 3. In the same vein, Goku WAS Vegetto. So all that line in GT can potentially prove for sure is that Baby-Vegeta had become stronger than Gohan-Boo.

Meanwhile, Super Vegetto's strength is treated by pretty much ever source out there like a huge deal, and a GT-centric source even speculates that he's "perhaps stronger than a Super Saiyan 4," almost as though to say the upper limits of his power remain a mystery.

So... no, the bloated power comparisons in GT are not as cut-and-dry as some might treat them. I don't even dabble in GT strength details much at all, but I'm able to keep track of some of this stuff.

[Kid Buu]

Didn't Vegetto even say he underestimated his own strength?

[Friezacooler]

that is more than prove enough. that Goku knows vegeto's ki or he wouldn't have mentioned on the Potara. the fact he states one blast makes it even more of a fact he knows vegito's ki. nuff said.

[Draken]

that is more than prove enough. that Goku knows vegeto's ki or he wouldn't have mentioned on the Potara. the fact he states one blast makes it even more of a fact he knows vegito's ki. nuff said.

Considering you're the only one saying so at this moment, no it's not "nuff said". Did you even read any other post or are you just shouting into the wind with your hands over your ears?

[Saiga]

Doesn't Old Kaioshin basically say that Super Baby 1 or 2 is the strongest ki he has ever felt? That would mean he's definitely surpassed Vegetto.

[Kaboom]

that is more than prove enough. that Goku knows vegeto's ki or he wouldn't have mentioned on the Potara. the fact he states one blast makes it even more of a fact he knows vegito's ki. nuff said.

I'm sure Goku really does remember Super Vegetto's strength. It was HIS strength for the short time he and Vegeta were fused, after all. But the point is that doesn't make Baby-Vegeta stronger than that because of a blanket statement, thanks to that type of statement being used in other contexts.

Doesn't Old Kaioshin basically say that Super Baby 1 or 2 is the strongest ki he has ever felt? That would mean he's definitely surpassed Vegetto.

I think it was Super Saiyan 4 Goku he said it about, not Baby. I haven't been able to track down the specific line, though.

Even if so, there's still another potential loophole for that, too. If Vegetto was leaps and bounds stronger than Gohan-Boo, he may well have only ever used a portion of his power. So the strongest that anyone ever "felt" from him would not be his full power, which for all anyone knows could indeed be comparable or superior to SSJ4 Goku's.

It just goes to show there's multiple legit approaches to most things.

[Kid Buu]

I remember Elder Kaioshin saying something about that too; although you could argue Elder Kaioshin never felt Vegetto's true power of SSJ3.

[Draken]

Considering the ease with which Vegetto was able to curb-stomp Buuhan and the fact that he never showed any signs of trying, I think it's safe to say that Vegetto didn't need to use his full power against Buuhan, and thus didn't actually project his full ki to be sensed.

[RandomGuy96]

Considering the ease with which Vegetto was able to curb-stomp Buuhan and the fact that he never showed any signs of trying, I think it's safe to say that Vegetto didn't need to use his full power against Buuhan, and thus didn't actually project his full ki to be sensed.

Even if so, there's still another potential loophole for that, too. If Vegetto was leaps and bounds stronger than Gohan-Boo, he may well have only ever used a portion of his power. So the strongest that anyone ever "felt" from him would not be his full power, which for all anyone knows could indeed be comparable or superior to SSJ4 Goku's.

In the manga, maybe. In the anime, which GT follows, it's extremely unlikely for him to have been using anything less than his full power; he actually struggled against Buuhan several times, most notably when Buu started his universe destroying scream. That doesn't mean that the anime comic is wrong, it just means that Super Vegetto is slightly weaker than a SS4 rather than slightly stronger (hence the "perhaps"). Or it could just be saying that Vegetto in general- that is, Vegetto's max- is slightly stronger than a SS4. "Assume full power" has always made the most sense to me on issues like this. Why would it randomly be comparing the full power of a SS4 to a suppressed form of Vegetto's?

[Kid Buu]

Goku Potara fused with Kaioshin Vs. Super Buu

[Friezacooler]

Old kai said that about both baby vegeta, and SSj4 Goku during super 17 saga.
General rilldo powers up and Goku states his ki is even greater than Boo's and than Goku powers up and General rilldo states "Battle power impossible to calculate" so even goku from rilldo saga has a point to be put on a higher level as Vegito who got sensed by DBZ Goku.

[Draken]

Goku Potara fused with Kaioshin Vs. Super Buu

Super Buu stomp, Kaioshin makes Goku weaker and less courageous.

[Friezacooler]

Goku Potara fused with Kaioshin Vs. Super Buu

Super Buu stomp, Kaioshin makes Goku weaker and less courageous.

indeed old kai confirms that.

[RandomGuy96]

Goku Potara fused with Kaioshin Vs. Super Buu

I don't know... how would the Super Saiyan forms work here? Could Kaioku/Goshin still transform?

[Kid Buu]

For the sake of this match; KaioGoku can go SSJ3.

[RandomGuy96]

For the sake of this match; KaioGoku can go SSJ3.

Okay... running this one through my Potara formula.

(81,000,000 + 2,000,000,000) x 4.05 = 8,428,050,000

Already stronger than a SS2, just in base. His Super Saiyan form alone would be enough to beat Super Buu without breaking a sweat. In fact, he'd be the second strongest character in Z period, behind Vegetto (and yes, that includes Gogeta; I think that Super Kaioku could easily dismantle SS3 Gogeta).

Overall, it would be pretty similar to what would happen if you just gave Kibitoshin the ability to go Super Saiyan 1/2/3. That's assuming them being a different species doesn't have negative effects, though. That's also assuming fused and normal saiyans get the same multipliers. If I used my modified fusion multipliers, Kaioku couldn't win even with SS3.

(when speculating on power levels, I toy with giving fused saiyans different multipliers based mostly on the confusing implications about Gotenks and Buff Buu)

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Doesn't Old Kaioshin basically say that Super Baby 1 or 2 is the strongest ki he has ever felt? That would mean he's definitely surpassed Vegetto.

I can't find that line in the GT Strength Checker.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think Goku says that about Baby. I always thought Rou Kaioshin said Super Saiyan 4 Goku had the greatest power he ever sensed. I don't think he does, though.

[Friezacooler]

Hirudegarn > Birusu