"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[The gr]

Trunks attained the legendary super saiyan plot, so now he can take harsher beating than ssb vegeta and survive.

I knew it plot ki was part of toriyama manuscript

Plot ki>god ki

Finally someone understand the term of plot ki, because trunks and Vegeta obtain that power like father and son example rageta and DBS trunks in the anime and manga

[Lord Beerus]

No that crater was created when goku black smashed trunks so stop spreading misinformation

just looked again and you are right, my bad, though i still think its bullshit either way.

Apology accepted, how come no one is questioning about trunks surviving Goku black brutal attacks but I'll wait for the full chapter

I'm questioning why Goku Black didn't kill him right on the spot.

[OLKv3]

No that crater was created when goku black smashed trunks so stop spreading misinformation

just looked again and you are right, my bad, though i still think its bullshit either way.

Apology accepted, how come no one is questioning about trunks surviving Goku black brutal attacks but I'll wait for the full chapter

Because he's purposely letting him live. Just like when Freeza beat down Goku and Vegeta, Cell doing the same, and Buu doing the same. I feel like people here just want to search for double standards constantly when they don't exist

So far this looks good. I'm loving how well paced this arc is in the manga, for the first time it feels like a normal manga instead of a remixed summary

[The gr]

just looked again and you are right, my bad, though i still think its bullshit either way.

Apology accepted, how come no one is questioning about trunks surviving Goku black brutal attacks but I'll wait for the full chapter

I'm questioning why Goku Black didn't kill him right on the spot.

He's torturing trunks because he broke the time travel taboo or unless that was anime exclusive, I guess he is doing it for shit n giggles

[mfwlegend3]

I'm questioning why Goku Black didn't kill him right on the spot.

Isn't it obvious?

[Totamo]

just looked again and you are right, my bad, though i still think its bullshit either way.

Apology accepted, how come no one is questioning about trunks surviving Goku black brutal attacks but I'll wait for the full chapter

I'm questioning why Goku Black didn't kill him right on the spot.

Dragon ball villains and heroes love to toy with their opponents.

[zamasu121]

I knew it plot ki was part of toriyama manuscript

Plot ki>god ki

Finally someone understand the term of plot ki, because trunks and Vegeta obtain that power like father and son example rageta and DBS trunks in the anime and manga

just wait. I have a feeling this is not the last time we are gonna see the legendary super saiyan plot in this arc.

[OLKv3]

It still should have heavily injured her at the very least.

The thing that worries me most is that Vegeta training in the ROSAT is going to lead up to him beating Goku Black again. The problem with that is that... it won't mean anything. We've already seen Vegeta kick Goku Black's ass. So the catharsis factor of Vegeta returning much stronger and getting the upper hand against Goku Black again won't be there, much like how it was in the anime.I hope that Toyotaro take the unique route as has Vegeta just lose again to Black. But if the event will play out just like in the anime, then honestly I can't say that I care for the prospect of Vegeta beating up Goku Black again.

Other than that, I'm liking what I'm seeing in this chapter so far. Goku Black savagely beating up Future Trunks was great to watch... even though Black should have just killed him on the spot. I do have to wonder though, how did Kaioshin manage to bail out Future Trunks before Goku Black was seemingly about to kill him? Of course, if that's even the case to begin with. Because that happening make no sense as Kaioshin in dead in Future Trunks' timeline, and if it's Present Kaioshin, then how the hell was he able to time travel to Future Trunks timeline? Is this any ability that Kaioshin have? Because if so, I'm sorry, but I gotta call shenanigans on that bullshit. If Kaioshin are able to time travel then why the hell do the Time Rings even exist?

Present Kaioshin already travelled in time to Trunks future using a Time Ring just before exposing Present Zamasu's plans. And he said he would do it again to tell Goku and Vegeta about the second Zamasu.

I will never understand why people try to find plotholes without remembering/reading the rest of the chapters. Like seriously...

Completely agree on the Vegeta thing trough. Not only would it be bullshit power levels again just like in the anime, but also it would lack the plot-weight (I'm sorry, I don't know how to express this in English) that it had there, because we have already see the whole «Saiyan Cells» speech.

Mai surviving attacks from Black is not more bullshit that what happened in the anime when he fired a direct Ki blast to her. Then again, at this point neither Toriyama or any of the medias really cares about power consistency and logic...which is a same.

I really don't see the point of this chapter trough if it ends with Goku using the Mafuba.Just like I didn't see the point of Trunks dealing with both Zamasus and being rescuted by Yajirobe offscreen in the anime. I mean, Goku and Vegeta have a fucking time machine. Couldn't they just return to the point before they left instead of Trunks having to face Black and wait for them? Time in both timelines shouldn't flow at the same time if the time paradox (which is bullshit anyway, but...) is true. This arc has way more potential than any of the both mediums (and Toriyama itself) used. But oh well...

I've amended my previous comment about Kaioshin time-travelling. But Vegeta training in the ROSAT and closing the gap on the Black would be ridiculous, just as it was in the anime, because the gap in strength between SSJR and SSJB is fucking huge. I mean, it's even bigger than what we see in the anime. SSJ Goku Black was able to kick Vegeta's ass after one Zenkai boost; and then on top of that he achieves Super Saiyan Rose. There's no way in hell Vegeta should be able to catch up after a session in the ROSAT. Unless he suddenly attained a new form. Or he and Goku... fuse. Oh my God. I so see Vegetto or Gogeta happening now.

The gap between SSJ Vegeta and Semi Perfect Cell was even more massive, yet Vegeta surpassed him within one year of training. It's not ridiculous

[Lord Beerus]

Present Kaioshin already travelled in time to Trunks future using a Time Ring just before exposing Present Zamasu's plans. And he said he would do it again to tell Goku and Vegeta about the second Zamasu.

I will never understand why people try to find plotholes without remembering/reading the rest of the chapters. Like seriously...

Completely agree on the Vegeta thing trough. Not only would it be bullshit power levels again just like in the anime, but also it would lack the plot-weight (I'm sorry, I don't know how to express this in English) that it had there, because we have already see the whole «Saiyan Cells» speech.

Mai surviving attacks from Black is not more bullshit that what happened in the anime when he fired a direct Ki blast to her. Then again, at this point neither Toriyama or any of the medias really cares about power consistency and logic...which is a same.

I really don't see the point of this chapter trough if it ends with Goku using the Mafuba.Just like I didn't see the point of Trunks dealing with both Zamasus and being rescuted by Yajirobe offscreen in the anime. I mean, Goku and Vegeta have a fucking time machine. Couldn't they just return to the point before they left instead of Trunks having to face Black and wait for them? Time in both timelines shouldn't flow at the same time if the time paradox (which is bullshit anyway, but...) is true. This arc has way more potential than any of the both mediums (and Toriyama itself) used. But oh well...

I've amended my previous comment about Kaioshin time-travelling. But Vegeta training in the ROSAT and closing the gap on the Black would be ridiculous, just as it was in the anime, because the gap in strength between SSJR and SSJB is fucking huge. I mean, it's even bigger than what we see in the anime. SSJ Goku Black was able to kick Vegeta's ass after one Zenkai boost; and then on top of that he achieves Super Saiyan Rose. There's no way in hell Vegeta should be able to catch up after a session in the ROSAT. Unless he suddenly attained a new form. Or he and Goku... fuse. Oh my God. I so see Vegetto or Gogeta happening now.

The gap between SSJ Vegeta and Semi Perfect Cell was even more massive, yet Vegeta surpassed him within one year of training. It's not ridiculous

The gap in strength between SSJ Vegeta and Semi Perfect Cell was nowhere near as big as what's implied to be gap in strength with SSJB and SSJR.

I'm questioning why Goku Black didn't kill him right on the spot.

Isn't it obvious?

I so want this to happen in the manga.

[Totamo]

I've amended my previous comment about Kaioshin time-travelling. But Vegeta training in the ROSAT and closing the gap on the Black would be ridiculous, just as it was in the anime, because the gap in strength between SSJR and SSJB is fucking huge. I mean, it's even bigger than what we see in the anime. SSJ Goku Black was able to kick Vegeta's ass after one Zenkai boost; and then on top of that he achieves Super Saiyan Rose. There's no way in hell Vegeta should be able to catch up after a session in the ROSAT. Unless he suddenly attained a new form. Or he and Goku... fuse. Oh my God. I so see Vegetto or Gogeta happening now.

The gap between SSJ Vegeta and Semi Perfect Cell was even more massive, yet Vegeta surpassed him within one year of training. It's not ridiculous

The gap in strength between SSJ Vegeta and Semi Perfect Cell was nowhere near as big as what's implied to be gap in strength with SSJB and SSJR.

it could be a powerscale inconsistency which really wouldn't surprise me as dragon ball has had that crap before.

or it could be what we have always said to justify this? holding back.

[OLKv3]

Except it actually was. SSJ Vegeta was no match for 18. 18, 17, and Piccolo were no match for powered up Imperfect Cell. He then transformed into a power that completely dwarfed Imperfect Cell and 16. Then Vegeta shows up with a power that dwarfs even that.

Then Goku, who didn't even train the full year, shows up with power that dwarfs the power Perfect Cell used to effortlessly stomp Vegeta. The powerup Vegeta is getting that simply lets him fight on par with Black is absolutely nothing compared to some of the massive jumps we had in the series. It's like people now are just looking for reasons to bash Super when really, this is just standard fare.

Oh, and the Light Sword is definitely going to happen in the manga, but probably with a different form and explanation

[Basako]

I'm questioning why Goku Black didn't kill him right on the spot.

Well, of course he could, as Nappa could have killed the Z fighters and then wait for Goku, the Ginyu force could have killed Vegeta, Krilin and Gohan, Freezer the same and so on. Why when villains capture superheroes instead of killing them, they imprison them in a way they can scape? You know, the plot requires heroes to survive, spoilers, Trunks and Mai won't die.

[Freeza9000]

This is so brutal [spoiler][/spoiler] [spoiler][/spoiler] [spoiler]I think this is ft gowasu[/spoiler]

and Mai is also adorable In the manga and a badass [spoiler]I love Goku black facial expressions in this[/spoiler]

Goddamn, Black's beating on Trunks might be a hell of a lot more brutal than the anime once we see the full chapter. Really conveys how much Black loathes the dude. The murder of Future Gowasu was also far more gruesome than the anime. Also, I'm on the floor laughing at how Mai attempts to stop Black by hitting him with her gun like a parent spanking a child and Black's facial expression amplifies all that.

[HeroR]

I'm questioning why Goku Black didn't kill him right on the spot.

Well, of course he could, as Nappa could have killed the Z fighters and then wait for Goku, the Ginyu force could have killed Vegeta, Krilin and Gohan, Freezer the same and so on. Why when villains capture superheroes instead of killing them, they imprison them in a way they can scape? You know, the plot requires heroes to survive, spoilers, Trunks and Mai won't die.

Nappa did kill most of the Z Fighters before Goku got there and the three hour wait was Vegeta's idea to punished Goku, even then Piccolo still died. The Ginyu Force was seconds away from finishing off everyone before Goku arrived. Freeza is the only one you have a point about and he was a sadistic bastard.

[Lord Beerus]

Except it actually was. SSJ Vegeta was no match for 18. 18, 17, and Piccolo were no match for powered up Imperfect Cell. He then transformed into a power that completely dwarfed Imperfect Cell and 16. Then Vegeta shows up with a power that dwarfs even that.

Then Goku, who didn't even train the full year, shows up with power that dwarfs the power Perfect Cell used to effortlessly stomp Vegeta. The powerup Vegeta is getting that simply lets him fight on par with Black is absolutely nothing compared to some of the massive jumps we had in the series. It's like people now are just looking for reasons to bash Super when really, this is just standard fare.

Oh, and the Light Sword is definitely going to happen in the manga, but probably with a different form and explanation

You need to remember that you don't need a huge gap in strength to crush your opponent. Several battles on the Namek arc are proof of this. Plus, wee see that SSJ2 Gohan was able to overcome both Perfect and Super Perfect Cell, and that's just with a form that has a 2x multiplier. So really the gap in strength from SSJ Vegeta to Semi-Perfect is really not that big considering that SSJ2 absolutely dwarfs that, and is no more than a 2x multiplier form. I mean, there certainly a bloat in the battle powers in the Android arc, but not to the extent we've seen in Super. Super Saiyan Rose by all means, should be thousands of times stronger than what SSJB is.

[mfwlegend3]

Any news on translations?

[Lord Beerus]

Any news on translations?

If you ain't heard it from Herms, you ain't heard it from no-one.

[Basako]

I'm questioning why Goku Black didn't kill him right on the spot.

Well, of course he could, as Nappa could have killed the Z fighters and then wait for Goku, the Ginyu force could have killed Vegeta, Krilin and Gohan, Freezer the same and so on. Why when villains capture superheroes instead of killing them, they imprison them in a way they can scape? You know, the plot requires heroes to survive, spoilers, Trunks and Mai won't die.

Nappa did kill most of the Z Fighters before Goku got there and the three hour wait was Vegeta's idea to punished Goku, even then Piccolo still died. The Ginyu Force was seconds away from finishing off everyone before Goku arrived. Freeza is the only one you have a point about and he was a sadistic bastard.

Sure, not gonna argue about the Saiyan and Namek arc now, the point is, enemies not killing heroes, when they could have, has happened since the begining. Another one, why didn't Toninjika eat Bulma when she was a carrot instead of holding her for minutes? Plot.

[SansrivaaL]

Aw man.... its like nothing happened from the spoiled pages, all we know is plot ki kicked in, Vegeta went to the chamber, Goku trained to master mafuuba, Mai got mai'd. I want the full chapter!
So no signs of SSJRage yet?

[Lord Beerus]

I just re-read chapter 20 and SSJ Goku Black actually gets two Zenkais. The first after he gets clobbered by SSJ2 Vegeta. And the second after he fightd SSJB Vegeta. Doesn't this make the gap between SSJB and SSJR fucking enormous in the manga? And from what we've seen in the manga leaks, Vegeta trains in the ROSAT. Which implies that the events of the anime, with him as a SSJB overwhelming SSJR Goku Black, is going to happen. If that is the case, Vegeta has arguably made the biggest gains from training in Dragon Ball history. I... don't know how feel about that prospect. Obviously, we'll have to wait until the chapter is fully released, but I pray that manga doesn't go that route and just has Vegeta getting clobbered by Black again, leading to Vegetto or Gogeta being born.