The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Saiga]

I think that Yamcha, Kuririn and Tenshinhan could take on base Saiyan arc Vegeta after their training with Kaio (probably). Chaozu would lose. Even combined, the four of them would lose to Oozaru Vegeta.

[dbzfan7]

SSJ2 Goku (Cell games) vs Super Perfect Cell

[Kid Buu]

SSJ2 Goku (Cell games) vs Super Perfect Cell

Goku COULD beat Cell, but he discovers Chichi is pregnant with Goten so he has his pregnant wife fight instead.

[Saiga]

SSJ2 Goku (Cell games) vs Super Perfect Cell

It'd be the exact same difference in their first fight, which Goku couldn't have won. So he loses here as well.

[RandomGuy96]

Full Power Perfect Cell beats this Goku after a super tough fight. SPC one-shots him.

[Draken]

Full Power Perfect Cell beats this Goku after a super tough fight. SPC one-shots him.

Goku's more than 2x weaker than Gohan?

[Cursed Lemon]

I'm still calling a convincing victory for SSJ2 Goku over SPC, since I still think Gohan at full health could've wrecked him at the time (and Goku's a better, smarter fighter than Gohan).

[RandomGuy96]

Full Power Perfect Cell beats this Goku after a super tough fight. SPC one-shots him.

Goku's more than 2x weaker than Gohan?

No. What would make you think that?

I'm still calling a convincing victory for SSJ2 Goku over SPC, since I still think Gohan at full health could've wrecked him at the time (and Goku's a better, smarter fighter than Gohan).

What? You're saying there's less than a x2 difference between the Goku and Super Perfect Cell, who's basically the Cell that was already beating Goku + two massive power ups? And Gohan was so much stronger than Goku at the Cell Games as to be almost beyond comparison. Goku was just barley holding his own against Cell; Gohan was so unimpressed by that Cell that he thought he and Goku must have been holding back to appear so weak (Cell was, Goku wasn't). When he actually fought Cell, the guy who was beating SS Goku couldn't even lay a finger on SS Gohan. The one time Gohan retaliated he instantly floored Cell. Cell had to do another power up just to fight Gohan- using his true speed. While he was now much faster than Gohan, his strength was still low enough that he couldn't do any real damage; he landed a big barrage of punches and kicks followed by ki blasts, and Gohan's ki didn't drop a bit.

[Saiga]

I'm still calling a convincing victory for SSJ2 Goku over SPC, since I still think Gohan at full health could've wrecked him at the time (and Goku's a better, smarter fighter than Gohan).

I too think Gohan would have wrecked SPC without being injured, but SPC is still above Goku. And Goku's not going to be a better fighter than Gohan after you take into consideration the difference in strength - Goku's skills are outdone by Gohan's strength, or he never would have needed Gohan to fight Cell in the first place. Gohan pretty much says Goku looks like he's not fighting seriously because his performance is just poor from Gohan's perspective. SS2 Goku would be inferior to SS2 Gohan even with his skills, and I'd say he'd be inferior to Cell since even a suppressed Cell was superior to him.

[Godo]

While I believe that Gohan was at full power superior to Super Perfect Cell SSJ2, I don't believe Goku to be that much weaker than Gohan.
Weaker, sure, but not to the extent that he would be one-shotted by Cell.

In my opinion:

Goku:
FPSSJ: 8
SSJ2: 16

Gohan:
FPSSJ: 10
SSJ2: 20

Cell:
Perfect: 12
Super Perfect: 18

So Goku could win with luck, otherwise he would give a tough fight.

[Cursed Lemon]

What? You're saying there's less than a x2 difference between the Goku and Super Perfect Cell, who's basically the Cell that was already beating Goku + two massive power ups? And Gohan was so much stronger than Goku at the Cell Games as to be almost beyond comparison. Goku was just barley holding his own against Cell; Gohan was so unimpressed by that Cell that he thought he and Goku must have been holding back to appear so weak (Cell was, Goku wasn't). When he actually fought Cell, the guy who was beating SS Goku couldn't even lay a finger on SS Gohan. The one time Gohan retaliated he instantly floored Cell. Cell had to do another power up just to fight Gohan- using his true speed. While he was now much faster than Gohan, his strength was still low enough that he couldn't do any real damage; he landed a big barrage of punches and kicks followed by ki blasts, and Gohan's ki didn't drop a bit.

My viewpoint is based on the idea that SSJ2 Gohan is just THAT much stronger than Cell in all of his forms.

And let's not act like FPSSJ Goku was crawling off the battlefield with every bone in his body broken. He gave up without even taking that much visible damage. A better measure of strength would've been to see Gohan and Goku each fight a Cell Jr. but that obviously did not happen. Let's not forget that before Gohan transformed, he was utterly powerless to stop what was happening to his friends - implying that Cell could've just smacked him back had he tried to intervene.

I also don't think that SPC gets that much of a power boost after regenerating, but that view is contested around here.

I too think Gohan would have wrecked SPC without being injured, but SPC is still above Goku. And Goku's not going to be a better fighter than Gohan after you take into consideration the difference in strength - Goku's skills are outdone by Gohan's strength, or he never would have needed Gohan to fight Cell in the first place. Gohan pretty much says Goku looks like he's not fighting seriously because his performance is just poor from Gohan's perspective. SS2 Goku would be inferior to SS2 Gohan even with his skills, and I'd say he'd be inferior to Cell since even a suppressed Cell was superior to him.

I don't think that FPSSJ Gohan is THAT much stronger than FPSSJ Goku. Goku obviously couldn't break through to SSJ2, which was the stickler.

Here is my idea of the power scaling:

FPSSJ Gohan - 11
FPSSJ Goku - 9
Perfect Cell - 10
FP Perfect Cell - 13
SSJ2 Gohan - 20
SPC - 16

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't think Super Saiyan 2 Goku has a chance against Super Perfect Cell. Cell was still weaker than Gohan, but he basically received a Super Saiyan 2 type of power-up. Goku was weaker than Gohan in every form, and Gohan had the whole rage stuff powering his Super Saiyan 2 which Goku doesn't have.

[Cursed Lemon]

I'm not inclined to interpret the whole rage thing as necessarily giving Gohan some kind of "extra power" on top of his transformation - it just enabled him to get over the hump and do it. But that's my way of looking at it.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Well, Vegeta thinks Gohan is pathetic after seeing him become a Super Saiyan 2, but believes that could all change if he got pissed:

Vegeta: “Unfortunately, it seems he got carried away in peace and didn’t do any significant training. Our powers are higher than his now…Though I suppose there’s no telling what would happen if he snapped and went into a frenzy… ”

And Goku:

Get angry, Gohan…Remember how you got angry and fought Cell, and draw out all of the power you have. If you do that, you won’t lose to anyone in the entire world! Not to anyone…

[Cursed Lemon]

Right, but the common sense assumption is that if Goku got that angry, he'd go SSJ2 as well.

[Saiga]

That's not relevant to the implication that Gohan gets extra power from anger even as a Super Saiyan 2, though. And I don't think Goku would get Super Saiyan 2 by being angry because he wasn't as strong as Gohan and doesn't get rage boosts like Gohan does. So he's probably further off.

[RandomGuy96]

FPSSJ Gohan - 11
FPSSJ Goku - 9
Perfect Cell - 10
FP Perfect Cell - 13
SSJ2 Gohan - 20
SPC - 16

So Cell can't touch or damage someone not even 10% stronger than him? SS2 Gohan is less than x2 SS Gohan?

[Cursed Lemon]

That's not relevant to the implication that Gohan gets extra power from anger even as a Super Saiyan 2, though. And I don't think Goku would get Super Saiyan 2 by being angry because he wasn't as strong as Gohan and doesn't get rage boosts like Gohan does. So he's probably further off.

Goku used a "rage boost" to hit SSJ in the first place. ;P

[Cursed Lemon]

FPSSJ Gohan - 11
FPSSJ Goku - 9
Perfect Cell - 10
FP Perfect Cell - 13
SSJ2 Gohan - 20
SPC - 16

So Cell can't touch or damage someone not even 10% stronger than him? SS2 Gohan is less than x2 SS Gohan?

Well first of all, the fight between SSJ Gohan and Cell wasn't much of a fight at all. We have no idea what that fight would've looked like had it been strung out to the bitter end.

Secondly, I mistyped.

[RandomGuy96]

FPSSJ Gohan - 11
FPSSJ Goku - 9
Perfect Cell - 10
FP Perfect Cell - 13
SSJ2 Gohan - 20
SPC - 16

So Cell can't touch or damage someone not even 10% stronger than him? SS2 Gohan is less than x2 SS Gohan?

Well first of all, the fight between SSJ Gohan and Cell wasn't much of a fight at all. We have no idea what that fight would've looked like had it been strung out to the bitter end.

Secondly, I mistyped.

We saw enough to see that Cell couldn't lay a hand on Gohan. He explicitly had to power up to do so, and complimented Gohan for being so far above Goku. If he could hit him without powering up, why would he? Not to mention that even when he does power up enough to actually touch Gohan, his hits do no real damage.

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P6.4
Context: after fighting Gohan a little
Cell: “You’re a quick little brat…! How about I go all-out, in speed at least?”

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P12.6-7
Context: after Cell beats up on Gohan
Goku: “Don’t panic, Piccolo. Gohan’s ki hasn’t fallen one bit, has it?”
Kuririn: “Ah…It-it’s true…!”

Chapter: 404 (DBZ 210), P14.2
Context: after Gohan isn’t fazed much by Cell’s attack
Cell: “..Well, this is a surprise…You’re exceptionally tough, aren’t you?…”