Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

I think the Super Saiyan God power Goku absorbed just eventually faded away once Goku's fight with Beerus was over in the BOG arc. And then at some point when training with Whis, Goku was exposed to God Ki again, controlled it, mastered it and then learned to combine with Super Saiyan, resulting in the creation of Super Saiyan Blue. The big problem is that we don't know when Goku and Vegeta were exposed to God ki again. The best assumption to make is that it happened while they were inside the special dimension of Whis' staff.

But it was never said that Goku lost his power after BOG. It's the opposite since it took Vegeta six months just to catch up with Goku. If Goku lost power, Vegeta should be leaps and bounds stronger than Goku by the time they trained under Whis since their base forms were even.

I find it very hard to believe that nearly everyone from the u6 tournament is ssg level.

And why is that? They're the best U6 have to offer.

[TheMikado]

So, with SSBlue being 10x SSJ

I don't know any else who's interpreted the Hit/Goku fight that way.

[Lord Beerus]

I think the Super Saiyan God power Goku absorbed just eventually faded away once Goku's fight with Beerus was over in the BOG arc. And then at some point when training with Whis, Goku was exposed to God Ki again, controlled it, mastered it and then learned to combine with Super Saiyan, resulting in the creation of Super Saiyan Blue. The big problem is that we don't know when Goku and Vegeta were exposed to God ki again. The best assumption to make is that it happened while they were inside the special dimension of Whis' staff.

But it was never said that Goku lost his power after BOG. It's the opposite since it took Vegeta six months just to catch up with Goku. If Goku lost power, Vegeta should be leaps and bounds stronger than Goku by the time they trained under Whis since their base forms were even.

That's the problem I've brought up in previous post. It's never implied to be the case that Goku lost his SSJG power in his base form. But considering that SSJ Goku = SSJ Gohan, we have to go under the assumption that Goku's base form from the end of the BOG arc and beyond is really not that strong. Or that Vegeta base form was leagues below Goku after the Majin Boo arc, which would be ludicrous.

[Lord Beerus]

So, with SSBlue being 10x SSJ

I don't know any else who's interpreted the Hit/Goku fight that way.

Because in terms of raw power, SSJ Goku is above Hit. And 10% SSJB Vegeta could have defeated Hit, but he didn't because Vegeta couldn't figure out how the Time-Skip worked, so he lost.

[TheUltimateNinja]

So, with SSBlue being 10x SSJ

I don't know any else who's interpreted the Hit/Goku fight that way.

SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit, as stated by Beerus himself.

[TheMikado]

So, with SSBlue being 10x SSJ

I don't know any else who's interpreted the Hit/Goku fight that way.

SSJ Goku was stronger than Hit, as stated by Beerus himself.

What does this have to do with SSB though? SSG was stronger than Hit by a wide margin a well and still didn't overcome the time skip?

[DBZ Macky]

Does Kuririn really think he stands a chance against Base Goku? He says in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai that he might stand a chance if no one uses Super Saiyan. And for some reason, be repeats that line at the end of Episode 76.
Has he really powered up that much?

The Earthlings have always been portrayed as being close to the Base Saiyans in the Anime, even if it doesn't make much sense. For example, Yamcha vs Olibu and Tenshinhan vs Trunks.

Have the writers of the Anime changed? If not, then wouldn't they still have the same mentality, thereby putting DBZ filler on the same level of significance as DBS filler.

I wish to know everyone's thoughts on this. I hope you understand what I mean, I think I could word all of this better.

[TheMikado]

Does Kuririn really think he stands a chance against Base Goku? He says in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai that he might stand a chance if no one uses Super Saiyan. And for some reason, be repeats that line at the end of Episode 76.
Has he really powered up that much?

The Earthlings have always been portrayed as being close to the Base Saiyans in the Anime, even if it doesn't make much sense. For example, Yamcha vs Olibu and Tenshinhan vs Trunks.

Have the writers of the Anime changed? If not, then wouldn't they still have the same mentality, thereby putting DBZ filler on the same level of significance as DBS filler.

I wish to know everyone's thoughts on this. I hope you understand what I mean, I think I could word all of this better.

Brought this up a few pages back and I think that's what it's implying, or at least that Krillin feels he can handle base Gokus sparring.

[HeroR]

That's the problem I've brought up in previous post. It's never implied to be the case that Goku lost his SSJG power in his base form. But considering that SSJ Goku = SSJ Gohan, we have to go under the assumption that Goku's base form from the end of the BOG arc and beyond is really not that strong. Or that Vegeta base form was leagues below Goku after the Majin Boo arc, which would be ludicrous.

We know that base form Goku is powerful because that same base form was able to destroy a planet buster from Beerus, take kicks from a sleeping Beerus that sent him flying, and Copy-Vegeta no-sold Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks. And before 'filler' is brought up on Copy-Vegeta, Goku fighting Gohan would fall under filler too.

The other assumption besides the two you mentioned what that Goku was suppressed or Gohan has gotten much stronger. I guess you can also used the two-base form if you want.

Keep in mind also that Krillin told Goku not to used Super Saiyan in their sparring match in both Episodes 75 and 76, which is utterly overkill for someone like Krillin.

Does Kuririn really think he stands a chance against Base Goku? He says in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai that he might stand a chance if no one uses Super Saiyan. And for some reason, be repeats that line at the end of Episode 76.
Has he really powered up that much?

The Earthlings have always been portrayed as being close to the Base Saiyans in the Anime, even if it doesn't make much sense. For example, Yamcha vs Olibu and Tenshinhan vs Trunks.

Have the writers of the Anime changed? If not, then wouldn't they still have the same mentality, thereby putting DBZ filler on the same level of significance as DBS filler.

I wish to know everyone's thoughts on this. I hope you understand what I mean, I think I could word all of this better.

No. Krillin stands no chance against base form Goku even before he absorbed god ki. He has never said in Episode 76 that he would stand a chance if Goku went Super Saiyan. He just told Goku not to used Super Saiyan. In Episode 75 he put this condition down since he didn't trust Goku not to accidentally kill him.

Super used some filler, but not all of it. For example, the Otherworld filler wasn't considered when Goku used Kaioken with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan since Goku said it was originally impossible to combine Super Saiyan with the Kaioken until that point. The same with how Hell is portrayed in the filler compared to Super. Also, Tien vs. Trunks was in a movie, which is never considered in the anime outside of Garlic Jr, who didn't make an appearance with the rogue gallery.

[Doctor.]

Does Kuririn really think he stands a chance against Base Goku? He says in the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai that he might stand a chance if no one uses Super Saiyan. And for some reason, be repeats that line at the end of Episode 76.
Has he really powered up that much?

The Earthlings have always been portrayed as being close to the Base Saiyans in the Anime, even if it doesn't make much sense. For example, Yamcha vs Olibu and Tenshinhan vs Trunks.

Have the writers of the Anime changed? If not, then wouldn't they still have the same mentality, thereby putting DBZ filler on the same level of significance as DBS filler.

I wish to know everyone's thoughts on this. I hope you understand what I mean, I think I could word all of this better.

I think it's just the writers trying to project their own feelings onto the show. They don't want to make the humans too weak, so they just make him "somewhat weaker than the base Saiyans". Since the base Saiyans are so absolutely insignificant at this point, they probably thought people wouldn't really care much and wouldn't think it's far-fetched.

[Lord Beerus]

That's the problem I've brought up in previous post. It's never implied to be the case that Goku lost his SSJG power in his base form. But considering that SSJ Goku = SSJ Gohan, we have to go under the assumption that Goku's base form from the end of the BOG arc and beyond is really not that strong. Or that Vegeta base form was leagues below Goku after the Majin Boo arc, which would be ludicrous.

We know that base form Goku is powerful because that same base form was able to destroy a planet buster from Beerus, take kicks from a sleeping Beerus that sent him flying, and Copy-Vegeta no-sold Vegeta. And before 'filler' is brought up on Copy-Vegeta, Goku fighting Gohan would fall under filler too.

The other assumption besides the two you mentioned what that Goku was suppressed or Gohan has gotten much stronger. I guess you can also used the two-base form if you want.

I think Gohan has just gotten much stronger with training. They did handwave this possibility by not only stating that Gohan wanted to get stronger and asking Piccolo to train him but also showing, albeit very briefly, Gohan and Piccolo actually sparring before the Universe 6/7 Tournament began. I just figure he's been secretly training on the side since the end of the Resurrection F arc.

[TheUltimateNinja]

What does this have to do with SSB though? SSG was stronger than Hit by a wide margin a well and still didn't overcome the time skip?

It did overcome the timeskip, it greatly shortened the amount of time he could use it. He could do a full 0.1s against SSBlue Vegeta.

[Marlowe89]

But that still wouldn't make much sense since if Goku is improving to the point that he can actually do something to Whis while he's just dodging, unlike Vegeta who couldn't even touch him. Attacking on that level would be the next step. Wouldn't make much sense for Whis to weaken himself just to attack, otherwise he could just keep dodging or do what he did in Resurrection 'F' and point out how he could have knocked Goku out.

It makes plenty of sense, you're just missing the point over and over again without actually trying to understand the possibilities of that scenario. Nobody's even saying Whis weakened himself on the spot just to launch an attack, he could have suppressed himself to that degree for the entire sparring match if the point of the exercise was only to gauge how Goku typically responds to attacks or how he engages in hand-to-hand combat.

Without an explicit frame of reference to assert how much/little Whis may have been suppressing his power, the entire scene isn't in any way substantial to quantifying Goku's power. You just wouldn't have anything in that case, so don't pretend otherwise.

[Kishido]

Do you think their level have changed A LOT or they will get some android upgrades from Bulma?

I still have 18s words in my ears as she said her "power level is higher than you guys". Even if it makes no sense seeing that Piccolo and Gohan have been their she still is rathe confident in her power compared to other characters. We know that they can get stronger through training as well... So maybe some training with Krillin powered he up in some form

And we know that 17 is slightly stronger than her after all

[Freezerbaby]

so now ssj gohan power is way above ssj3 gotenks´ by training with piccolo? the very gohan who two episodes ago didn´t even want to spare with goku and he did because he saw no other choice. Very hard to believe not only that, but also everyone is now at ssg level.

[HeroR]

But that still wouldn't make much sense since if Goku is improving to the point that he can actually do something to Whis while he's just dodging, unlike Vegeta who couldn't even touch him. Attacking on that level would be the next step. Wouldn't make much sense for Whis to weaken himself just to attack, otherwise he could just keep dodging or do what he did in Resurrection 'F' and point out how he could have knocked Goku out.

It makes plenty of sense, you're just missing the point over and over again without actually trying to understand the possibilities of that scenario. Nobody's even saying Whis weakened himself on the spot just to launch an attack, he could have suppressed himself to that degree for the entire sparring match if the point of the exercise was only to gauge how Goku typically responds to attacks or how he engages in hand-to-hand combat.

Without an explicit frame of reference to assert how much/little Whis may have been suppressing his power, the entire scene isn't in any way substantial to quantifying Goku's power. You just wouldn't have anything in that case, so don't pretend otherwise.

Why do you always assumed that I don't 'understand possibilities of that scenario', instead of just disagreeing with them?

We see in the preview that Goku is able to seemingly hit Whis' staff several times and Whis launched an attack. If these things are true, they standout because Whis has never attacked during a sparring match in Super. I also don't see why would he surpassed himself much compared to what he usually gives Vegeta.

And who says I am pretending to have anything? You and others are the ones who have been quick to dismissed the scene as nothing, while others just pointed out, 'hey Whis is attacking Goku, he hasn't done that before'.

so now ssj gohan power is way above ssj3 gotenks´ by training with piccolo? the very gohan who two episodes ago didn´t even want to spare with goku and he did because he saw no other choice. Very hard to believe not only that, but also everyone is now at ssg level.

Gohan not wanting to spar has nothing to do with where his power stands. He didn't want to fight Cell either and he was stronger than everyone at the Cell Games. And why wouldn't Super Saiyan Gohan being stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks? Even in Resurrection 'F', his Super Saiyan form wasn't a far cry from his Ultimate power in the Buu Saga and he has been training.

And not everyone is at 'Super Saiyan God level', which isn't even a level since it's a multiplier.

[TheUltimateNinja]

And not everyone is at 'Super Saiyan God level', which isn't even a level since it's a multiplier.

When people say SSGod level they're obviously referring to SSGod Goku.

[Freezerbaby]

But that still wouldn't make much sense since if Goku is improving to the point that he can actually do something to Whis while he's just dodging, unlike Vegeta who couldn't even touch him. Attacking on that level would be the next step. Wouldn't make much sense for Whis to weaken himself just to attack, otherwise he could just keep dodging or do what he did in Resurrection 'F' and point out how he could have knocked Goku out.

It makes plenty of sense, you're just missing the point over and over again without actually trying to understand the possibilities of that scenario. Nobody's even saying Whis weakened himself on the spot just to launch an attack, he could have suppressed himself to that degree for the entire sparring match if the point of the exercise was only to gauge how Goku typically responds to attacks or how he engages in hand-to-hand combat.

Without an explicit frame of reference to assert how much/little Whis may have been suppressing his power, the entire scene isn't in any way substantial to quantifying Goku's power. You just wouldn't have anything in that case, so don't pretend otherwise.

Why do you always assumed that I don't 'understand possibilities of that scenario', instead of just disagreeing with them?

We see in the preview that Goku is able to seemingly hit Whis' staff several times and Whis launched an attack. If these things are true, they standout because Whis has never attacked during a sparring match in Super. I also don't see why would he surpassed himself much compared to what he usually gives Vegeta.

And who says I am pretending to have anything? You and others are the ones who have been quick to dismissed the scene as nothing, while others just pointed out, 'hey Whis is attacking Goku, he hasn't done that before'.

so now ssj gohan power is way above ssj3 gotenks´ by training with piccolo? the very gohan who two episodes ago didn´t even want to spare with goku and he did because he saw no other choice. Very hard to believe not only that, but also everyone is now at ssg level.

Gohan not wanting to spar has nothing to do with where his power stands. He didn't want to fight Cell either and he was stronger than everyone at the Cell Games. And why wouldn't Super Saiyan Gohan being stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks? Even in Resurrection 'F', his Super Saiyan form wasn't a far cry from his Ultimate power in the Buu Saga and he has been training.

And not everyone is at 'Super Saiyan God level', which isn't even a level since it's a multiplier.

By the time rof was released, fans were making fun of gohan because of how weak he´d become, he was barely able to transform into ssj and was one shot by 1st form freeza, which should be around ssj2 level, so no, that ssj gohan was precisely a far cry from his ultimate power in the boo saga.

On the other hand you are right about him not wanting to spar has nothing to do with his strenght, I just wanted to point out how uninterested he is now when it comes to training or fighting, making it very difficult for me to believe that he is now above ssj3 gotenks.

[Marlowe89]

And who says I am pretending to have anything? You and others are the ones who have been quick to dismissed the scene as nothing, while others just pointed out, 'hey Whis is attacking Goku, he hasn't done that before'.

No, the person who brought it up was specifically arguing that it confirmed Super Saiyan Goku and by extension Gohan are God tier fighters. The preview is nothing in that regard because it doesn't confirm that notion at all, and "don't pretend otherwise" was a general statement aimed at those who would attempt to take that standpoint when the episode airs next week just because Goku exchanged blows with Whis and deflected a ki blast.

There might be something in the episode that does quantify Goku's strength in that manner, but it's certainly not in the preview itself.

[dragonballgeek]

I think since she's partly android, she doesn't have to worry about getting weaker.

I don't see when 18 would've had the time to train and get stronger. Marron is pretty much attached to the hip every time we see her.


Also, when did she say her power level was higher than theirs? And who was she talking to?