The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Saiga]

Beginning of Dragon Ball.

[KentalSSJ6]

Ultimate Goku vs Super Buu

Ultimate Goku as in a Goku who went through the Kaioshin ritual?

[Saiga]

I think he'd lose. I think he's got much less dormant power than Gohan, and even though there's a decent gap between Gohan and Boo, he still wouldn't get there.

[RandomGuy96]

Ultimate Goku vs Super Buu

Ultimate Goku as in a Goku who went through the Kaioshin ritual?

Yes.

For the record, I don't think he'd be that much stronger than SS3 Goku. So he gets smashed.

[goku the krump dancer]

Hard to say but even if he isn't that much stronger than his SSJ3 self, the lack of any type of stress on his body now enables him to use the kaioken on top of his Ultimate Power Up. So Kaioken x10 should be more than enough to finish Boo.

[RandomGuy96]

Hard to say but even if he isn't that much stronger than his SSJ3 self, the lack of any type of stress on his body now enables him to use the kaioken on top of his Ultimate Power Up. So Kaioken x10 should be more than enough to finish Boo.

...that's not how the form works.

[goku the krump dancer]

The Ultimate State is where you have acess to all of your hidden power, perhaps more without the need of a super stressful body taxing transformation.

Kaioken is a chi amplifying technique that doesn't rely on hidden power reserves.

[Cursed Lemon]

I've always interpreted the kaioken as simply learning how to burn more ki at once.

[RandomGuy96]

The Ultimate State is where you have acess to all of your hidden power, perhaps more without the need of a super stressful body taxing transformation.

Kaioken is a chi amplifying technique that doesn't rely on hidden power reserves.

It's a transformation. Since when has Goku ever been able to stack a transformation and kaio-ken?

Where the heck is THAT stated? You're essentially saying kaio-ken can somehow produce energy out of nothing, violating basic laws of physics, when nothing of the sort is ever implied. Furthermore, if he could do that, why didn't he ever teach the kaio-ken to Gohan?

[Cursed Lemon]

It's a transformation. Since when has Goku ever been able to stack a transformation and kaio-ken?

Er.



Unless you meant something else.

[RandomGuy96]

I meant in canon.

[kuartus4]

Ultimate Goku vs Super Buu

Beers says this about Goku:



Since the kaioshin ritual is all about bringing out all of one's latent power, I imagine Mystic Goku might be a beast. Maybe on par with mystic gohan? Plus without any strain he could use his power to the fullest extent. So I'll say goku ftw, for now.

[Hellspawn28]

Future Gohan vs. Mystic Gohan

Balance power levels. Who wins?

[goku the krump dancer]

It's a transformation. Since when has Goku ever been able to stack a transformation and kaio-ken?

Going by manga alone there's nothing that says he can't and since they work differently I'm sure they can be used together.

Where the heck is THAT stated? You're essentially saying kaio-ken can somehow produce energy out of nothing, violating basic laws of physics, when nothing of the sort is ever implied. Furthermore, if he could do that, why didn't he ever teach the kaio-ken to Gohan?

Yeah thats pretty much what he says, After he uses it on Nappa he explains that the Kaioken technique takes all the chi in your body and amplifies it for a heart beat.

He didn't teach it to Gohan because Super Saiyan is more efficient.

[kuartus4]

It's a transformation. Since when has Goku ever been able to stack a transformation and kaio-ken?

Going by manga alone there's nothing that says he can't and since they work differently I'm sure they can be used together.

Where the heck is THAT stated? You're essentially saying kaio-ken can somehow produce energy out of nothing, violating basic laws of physics, when nothing of the sort is ever implied. Furthermore, if he could do that, why didn't he ever teach the kaio-ken to Gohan?

Yeah thats pretty much what he says, After he uses it on Nappa he explains that the Kaioken technique takes all the chi in your body and amplifies it for a heart beat.

He didn't teach it to Gohan because Super Saiyan is more efficient.

If Goku could have used Kaioken on top of SSj, why didn't he do that against Cell?

Also, I think the anime mentions how Kaioken works by turning the potential energy in your body into kinetic energy.

[hleV]

The Ultimate State is where you have acess to all of your hidden power, perhaps more without the need of a super stressful body taxing transformation.

Not "perhaps". The Kaioshin ritual, besides unlocking it, pushes the dormant/hidden power far beyond. Going by Daizenshuu and SEG, SS3 draws ALL of the Saiyan's hidden power out, and we know it's a 400x base multiplier. And Mightiest Warrior Gohan is definitely above his base x400, because he's stronger than SS3 Goku.

Kaioken is a chi amplifying technique that doesn't rely on hidden power reserves.

I'm quite sure that KK does draw power from a Saiyan's hidden power reserves.
That's why it deals damage to him upon extensive use: the body cannot handle this much power without transforming into a better suited one.
That's why SS transformations (which also draw hidden powers out) are a better way: they transform the body so it could handle more of the power that the Saiyan has in reserve.
That's why SS and KK don't stack (otherwise it would've been shown): they're essentially two different methods of doing the same, with transformations being the better one, because they don't "force" one to use more power than they normally is capable to.

[goku the krump dancer]

Goku says you take control of all the chi in your body and amplify it. So I guess its a weird thing where you use chi to amplify chi, I guess chi is just that flexible. Doesn't say anything about bringing out hidden power.

[The Monkey King]

Future Gohan vs. Mystic Gohan

Balance power levels. Who wins?

Mystic Gohan was trained by Goku and so is probably more skilled that the Gohan that could only train on his own.

[dbzfan7]

Future Gohan vs. Mystic Gohan

Balance power levels. Who wins?

Ultimate Gohan. He had better training as he actually trained with Goku while F. Gohan did not.

[kuartus4]

Future Gohan vs. Mystic Gohan

Balance power levels. Who wins?

Mystic Gohan wins. He has the advantage seeing as he has two arms while future gohan only has one. Also I dont think future gohan ever mastered super saiyan, so the strain will eventually catch up with him while mystic gohan has no such problem. Alao as others have said, mystic gohan should be more skilled.