Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Rubens]

Personally I think their power should be about the same since the android/cell arc, which most likely means 17 & 18 are stronger than the other earthlings (Krillin, Tenshinhan and M. Roshi). Although, I my memory serves, I believe Toriyama said somewhere they could improve through training (and it makes sense, assuming they're going to train at all).

[HeroR]

SSJ2 Trunks is stronger than Zamasu. Both fought against SSJ2 Goku and it was Trunks who performed better and that was still while he was holding back his full power.

Plus when SSJ2 Trunks fought Zamasu he got the upper hand against him and would have killed him if not for his invincibility.

Goku wasn't trying against Trunks since he literally only blocked and Zamasu successfully dodged Goku's attack, did an arm pressed, and performed a chop at Goku's neck. Trunks did none of that. And Trunks fought Future Zamasu who kept dropping his guard, as both Goku and Trunks pointed out.

[RehBeh]

Present Zamasu and Future Trunks(First Appearance in Super) are no where near SSG Goku. The fact that Beerus called him impressive was foreshadowing about his character and strongh development. Beerus also called Goku when they first met a "Prodigy" and "Pretty Goood", but people tend to forget that.

[HeroR]

Present Zamasu and Future Trunks(First Appearance in Super) are no where near SSG Goku. The fact that Beerus called him impressive was foreshadowing about his character and strongh development. Beerus also called Goku when they first met a "Prodigy" and "Pretty Goood", but people tend to forget that.

It wouldn't make sense for Present Zamasu to only be as strong as the strongest Supreme Kai in U7 if he was called special and a prodigy. Especially when he called such by both Gowasu and Whis.

[Bullza]

SSJ2 Trunks is stronger than Zamasu. Both fought against SSJ2 Goku and it was Trunks who performed better and that was still while he was holding back his full power.

Plus when SSJ2 Trunks fought Zamasu he got the upper hand against him and would have killed him if not for his invincibility.

Goku wasn't trying against Trunks since he literally only blocked and Zamasu successfully dodged Goku's attack, did an arm pressed, and performed a chop at Goku's neck. Trunks did none of that. And Trunks fought Future Zamasu who kept dropping his guard, as both Goku and Trunks pointed out.

Then that's because he was forced to only block. Goku overwhelmed Zamasu fairly easily while Trunks was able to force Goku back while not fighting at full power.

Zamasu also didn't let his guard down in the scene I'm talking about. He let his guard down at specific and obvious points like when he fought Goku and looked away and started commenting on something else leading Goku to just punch him in the face

You can't make the excuse that every single time he's hit its because he was letting his guard down because in that scene he didn't. Trunks stopped his attack with his own physical strength before pounding the tar out of him and if he weren't invincible he'd have died right there.

[Freeza9000]

Though many don't seem to think that SSj2 Trunks is as strong as SSj2 Goku, I still believe that he would beat Base Form Freeza in the ROF arc at the very least.

[RehBeh]

Present Zamasu and Future Trunks(First Appearance in Super) are no where near SSG Goku. The fact that Beerus called him impressive was foreshadowing about his character and strongh development. Beerus also called Goku when they first met a "Prodigy" and "Pretty Goood", but people tend to forget that.

It wouldn't make sense for Present Zamasu to only be as strong as the strongest Supreme Kai in U7 if he was called special and a prodigy. Especially when he called such by both Gowasu and Whis.

I didn't say that he was strong as U7 strongest KaioShin. In the manga he spared against Kibito and pulled an easy victory but Kibito managed to through some blows at him. Again in the manga Zamasu was impressed that Shin and Kibito defeated Majin Boo until he found out that they didn't. When Kibito said that a mortal defeated Boo he took at as a joke. That's heavily implication that Zamasu(Present) is in fact weaker than Boo or at the same level at least.

[Hugo Boss]

SSJ2 Trunks is stronger than Zamasu. Both fought against SSJ2 Goku and it was Trunks who performed better and that was still while he was holding back his full power.

Plus when SSJ2 Trunks fought Zamasu he got the upper hand against him and would have killed him if not for his invincibility.

Goku wasn't trying against Trunks since he literally only blocked and Zamasu successfully dodged Goku's attack, did an arm pressed, and performed a chop at Goku's neck. Trunks did none of that. And Trunks fought Future Zamasu who kept dropping his guard, as both Goku and Trunks pointed out.

Actually, the fact that Goku used SS3, and Trunks didn't use his full power until then, implies SS2 Trunks is probably stronger than SS2 Goku. When Trunks used his full power the containment barrier Bulma constructed didn't resist, so it was a fairly high increase. Also, it was implied Black didn't fight Goku to his limit in their first bout and he had been using more power when fighting Trunks in the future.

[Nejishiki]

Personally I think their power should be about the same since the android/cell arc, which most likely means 17 & 18 are stronger than the other earthlings (Krillin, Tenshinhan and M. Roshi). Although, I my memory serves, I believe Toriyama said somewhere they could improve through training (and it makes sense, assuming they're going to train at all).

Q4: Do modified-human types like Artificial Humans No. 17 and No. 18 get stronger if they train?
Since they’re human-based, of course they can become even stronger if they train.
In the case of modified-human types like No. 17 and No. 18, since they’re human-based they can become stronger if they train. By the way, though they don’t need to eat, they do need to hydrate. Also, their cells deteriorate slowly, so they age slowly too.

[ChiefWamsutta]

In Dragon Ball Super Episode 57, Future Trunks being able to fight and stab Future Zamasu is a problem.

SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, SSRose Goku Black are generally around the same tier.

Future Zamasu is probably around SSGod Goku tier. These four can keep up with each other though.

But we have SS2 Future Trunks who shouldn't be able to keep up with and badly wound Future Zamasu. (Once he gets his SSRage form, yeah, obviously he can, but not before ...)

I wonder how we could answer this.

[omaro34]

Personally I think their power should be about the same since the android/cell arc, which most likely means 17 & 18 are stronger than the other earthlings (Krillin, Tenshinhan and M. Roshi). Although, I my memory serves, I believe Toriyama said somewhere they could improve through training (and it makes sense, assuming they're going to train at all).

You never know with Super. The last arc is living proof that one can explode with power in such a short time that billions never achieved half of that power during their whole lives.

[Bullza]

Trunks is stronger than Zamasu and comparable to Goku as long as he doesn't turn into a Super Saiyan Blue. If Zamasu and Goku are considered to be as strong as a Super Saiyan God then naturally Trunks would have to be as well.

If you don't think Trunks is as strong as Super Saiyan God then nerf Zamasu and Goku down to below Super Saiyan God.

In the manga when Goku fought Zamasu he quickly powered down from his Super Saiyan Blue form to just the regular Super Saiyan which he must have felt was enough to be able to deal with him.

Considering that meanwhile Trunks was shown to be as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku then yeah it's heavily implied in both versions that Trunks is stronger than Zamasu.

[ekrolo2]

So, the wiki keeps using the manga panels of Trunks ambushing Black & Zamasu as evidence for SSRage existing there, does anything support this at all?

[omaro34]

I have a feeling Female Broly will knock out Vegeta lmao

[ChiefWamsutta]

Trunks is stronger than Zamasu and comparable to Goku as long as he doesn't turn into a Super Saiyan Blue. If Zamasu and Goku are considered to be as strong as a Super Saiyan God then naturally Trunks would have to be as well.

If you don't think Trunks is as strong as Super Saiyan God then nerf Zamasu and Goku down to below Super Saiyan God.

In the manga when Goku fought Zamasu he quickly powered down from his Super Saiyan Blue form to just the regular Super Saiyan which he must have felt was enough to be able to deal with him.

Considering that meanwhile Trunks was shown to be as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku then yeah it's heavily implied in both versions that Trunks is stronger than Zamasu.

My only thought is that Gowasu compared SS2 Goku to Beerus, who then corrected him. Obviously, Gowasu was exaggerating, but that implies that Goku wasn't at SS2 Buu Saga power during his fight with Present Zamasu. It would make sense for him to be above SSGod Goku or around that power. This means Zamasu was around there too. ... Which then means SS2 Future Trunks had to be around that as well.

But when did he get that strong? He couldn't sense SSB Vegeta as a SS2, which you need to be around SSGod Goku to be (as shown by Vegeta when he can sense Whis and Goku says he's as strong as him).

[Bullza]

Gowasu's comment was likely just a misinterpretation of what Goku said when he said he'd fought Beerus before leading to Beerus correcting him.

He wouldn't be at at his Buu level strenght anyway after all that training he did with Whis. If he were shown to be as strong as Gohan and Gohan is stronger than Piccolo then Goku went from being weaker than Namek saga Frieza in the Buu saga to above Resurrection F saga Piccolo.

It wasn't really explained very well why Trunks was so strong in the anime but going by the manga he not only mastered the Z sword but he'd fought against Black several times and probably like Black got several zenkai boosts of his own and being as how he's a half Saiyan he may have more potential just like Gohan.

So, the wiki keeps using the manga panels of Trunks ambushing Black & Zamasu as evidence for SSRage existing there, does anything support this at all?

No not at all. It mentions how it granted him a huge power boost that allowed him to knock aside Zamasu and hold his own against Black but that was really no different to what he did during the episode where Goku and Trunks fought Black and Zamasu and he didn't have the Super Saiyan Rage form there.

He caught them by surprise and he did power up because he trained with Vegeta in the Gravity room.

It also mentions his pupils being blank like in the anime but no they weren't at all.

[Rubens]

Q4: Do modified-human types like Artificial Humans No. 17 and No. 18 get stronger if they train?
Since they’re human-based, of course they can become even stronger if they train.
In the case of modified-human types like No. 17 and No. 18, since they’re human-based they can become stronger if they train. By the way, though they don’t need to eat, they do need to hydrate. Also, their cells deteriorate slowly, so they age slowly too.

Thank you!

You never know with Super. The last arc is living proof that one can explode with power in such a short time that billions never achieved half of that power during their whole lives.

I have to agree. Storywise it has been doing good, but the powerscaling is sometimes rather unclear and inconsistent.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Gowasu's comment was likely just a misinterpretation of what Goku said when he said he'd fought Beerus before leading to Beerus correcting him.

He wouldn't be at at his Buu level strenght anyway after all that training he did with Whis. If he were shown to be as strong as Gohan and Gohan is stronger than Piccolo then Goku went from being weaker than Namek saga Frieza in the Buu saga to above Resurrection F saga Piccolo.

It wasn't really explained very well why Trunks was so strong in the anime but going by the manga he not only mastered the Z sword but he'd fought against Black several times and probably like Black got several zenkai boosts of his own and being as how he's a half Saiyan he may have more potential just like Gohan.

Right, right, so SS2 Goku is now above SSGod Goku though ... because he absorbed the SSGod power though? Also, wouldn't this have to be because Goku jokingly teases Beerus about Zamasu one day catching him? Only Goku and Vegeta have ever been teased to reach Beerus one day. That means Present Zamasu must be in the same range as them.

[buutenks]

So in conclusion Super Power Levels make no sense, as per usual.

[HeroR]

Then that's because he was forced to only block. Goku overwhelmed Zamasu fairly easily while Trunks was able to force Goku back while not fighting at full power.

Zamasu also didn't let his guard down in the scene I'm talking about. He let his guard down at specific and obvious points like when he fought Goku and looked away and started commenting on something else leading Goku to just punch him in the face

You can't make the excuse that every single time he's hit its because he was letting his guard down because in that scene he didn't. Trunks stopped his attack with his own physical strength before pounding the tar out of him and if he weren't invincible he'd have died right there.

There is no evidence that Goku could 'only' block given how he caught Trunks' fists with no fanfare. At this point, you're overshooting Trunks.

While Zamasu was overwhelmed, but still managed to block, attack, parry, and dodge, which is far more than Trunks ever did.

Both Trunks and Goku said he lowered his guard because he became dependent on his immortality, and Black wouldn't wrecked Trunks every time they met before he got Rose if he was up to par with Future Zamasu who pushed back and traded blows with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku. Nor would Black be impressed by Super Saiyan 2' Goku's power if that was Trunks maximum.

Actually, the fact that Goku used SS3, and Trunks didn't use his full power until then, implies SS2 Trunks is probably stronger than SS2 Goku. When Trunks used his full power the containment barrier Bulma constructed didn't resist, so it was a fairly high increase. Also, it was implied Black didn't fight Goku to his limit in their first bout and he had been using more power when fighting Trunks in the future.

Goku transformed to show off if you looked at the scene. He literally too no damaged blocking Super Saiyan 2 Trunks.

We know that Black didn't fight all out since Trunks said he was on par or stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. At the same time, Black wouldn't be so impressed by Goku if he was only as strong as Trunks, who he beat up for over a year. We also saw in a flashback Super Saiyan 2 Trunks get smash when he first met Black.