Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[rereboy]

The same can be said for Gohan after Cell Arc, he could have trained for some future threat, but he had more important things in his life, and so did Freeza. Instead of wasting his time on training for a threat that will probably never appear, he...well I don't know what the fuck did he do, but he certainly doesn't find joy in training.
Yeah it's lazy, but it's not stupid, at least for Freeza. For him it's probably much more ridiculous to spent his life in training and to die one day of old age without having a serious threat in his life.

And I do say it. He didn't learn anything from his mistakes at the Cell games. However, I have more of a problem with him in the Cell games, so, to me, that's the real problem.

Well yeah, those are just theoretical explanations. We have insufficient data on why Freeza didn't train so all we can do is theorize, and the theory that sounds logical and fits into character's personality is good enough for me, better that then just to call it stupid and bullshit, imo.

It wasn't really lazy and stupid before it was revealed that Freeza knew that he could train for a few months and become tremendously more powerful. In the manga there's no indication that he could gain that much power just by training in such a little time, completely surpassing Goku's gains, and there's no indication that he knew such a thing, so his actions aren't nowhere as lazy and stupid as they are with the inclusion of the fact that he knew such a thing.

[Bullza]

Regardless of any excuses being made to justify Freeza never training it is still a very lazy idea on Toriyama's part and one that could be disappointing if there wasn't any more to it.

He created new forms, he knows countless techniques, he's as good at hand to hand combat as Goku and perfect tly adept to fighting in the air yet has never trained a day in his life. It's just stupid and something that was never mentioned or implied before.

For all we know, all of that is somehow instinctual for Freeza.

Look at Cell. Having the genetics of a fighter IRL doesn't mean you magically know their techniques or know how to fight, but in DBZ it does.

I figured that was all part of the data that was put into him, the same way he had data on the different characters. In any case it's reasonable why he was so strong and knew all these techniques.

Then there was Buu who was shown to suddenly learn moves like the Kamehameha and Instantaneous Movement after just seeing them the once.

And then there's Frieza who just knew all these unique moves which you assumed he would have learned through training like Vegeta or the Ginyu Force but no apparently he just knows how to do them.

There was no mention of it being instinctual, no mention of him being a genius or a fast learner or anything like that.

[rereboy]

He created new forms, he knows countless techniques, he's as good at hand to hand combat as Goku and perfect tly adept to fighting in the air yet has never trained a day in his life.

That just means that he knows how to use his power, not that he trained hard to increase his power.

[Bullza]

I didn't say that he did.

[singsing]

You people complaining about every new little thing is even more annoying than people asking for Goten every other post. Seriously, if you don't like it, why are you here? Make a new thread discussing the shit you don't like or just ignore this stuff. Geez. I don't mean to mini-mod but come on.

OT: (this is seriously like 3+ pages back because of the above rofl) I'm so glad Piccolo is getting a chance to shine again! I was always sad when he was left behind in the dust and thought that he was still quite relevant with his power.

[dbzfan7]

This is Toriyama. The guy cares more about fun ideas and utilizing them, over careful care with such things as continuity. The guy is known for shortcuts and being lazy. I admire that to a degree, but loathe what happens because no one is there to pick up that slack. Also my answer to that is, probably. Toriyama does what he wants more than what might make sense. Hence betraying expectation. However he does ideas for the sake he wants to, and I doubt cares a whole lot to try and fact check anything. Hell hence the meme "Beerus did it" was born from just shoving him in places he didn't belong, because he likes the idea over making it work. Most of his recent answers about characters can be argued he just pulled out of his ass. Not that they're bad, but really a lot of new tidbits can literally be just something he randomly thought up, over something more character driven

Be happy that we get new DragonBall. You can't always get things done your way.
Relax and wait till the movie comes out.

So I should be happy a bunch of stupid decisions are being made that are trivializing the manga's story and characters. I want care and thought put into new Dragon Ball products, not half assed incomplete concepts that make Freeza a total dipshit. His biggest fear isn't the legend of the Super Saiyan, it's having to actually move a muscle and get out of that chair of his.

Its a problem because it makes Freeza look incredibly lazy and stupid for not training for a month before going to Earth after his defeat, especially if he knew that he could improve tremendously by training. And it also makes his fear of SSJ seem more like a fear of having to train more than anything else.

Now, if Freeza didn't know he could improve tremendously because he never had hard training and the whole concept is foreign and insulting for him and his father since they always were that naturally strong and their "training" always revolved on just better controlling and handling their immense power... That could work. It would still make him look kind of lazy and stupid but at least it would be understandable.

Not even months. He probably only needs a single day, maybe a week tops of training just to be untouchable by the likes of SSJ Goku. Freeza says it's best to be cautious, yet for some reason that idea goes out the window, if it means he has to move out of that chair of his.

Now this while still seeming kinda dumb, is at least reasoning as to why he never tried in the past if his gains were this gigantic. People probably think we just shit on all the new stuff, and want all ideas to burn in a fire. It's not the case. I dunno about you, but I can get behind the new ideas more, if some more thought went into making them work along side the manga. Instead that care is not really taken.

[TheGmGoken]

So we should just accept anything new because its "New DB". Yeah I hate that claim sorry. Just because it's new doesn't make it good.

You have no choice. And I didn't say new is good. Anyway Movie F brought many good things like new fresh outfits and more, Toriyama work is almost unpredictable just wait and get surprised

Toriyama hasn't been unpredictable in 20 years. Unless you mean (IMO) unpredictability bad. Vegeta outfit isn't even all that new. It was on Tenkaichi series

[sintzu]

Toriyama hasn't been unpredictable in 20 years.

So you predicted :

Vegeta having a brother ?
Beerus and Whis ?
Super Saiyan God ?
Goku losing against Beerus ?
Vegeta getting a huge power up in BOG ?
The 12 universes ?
Freeza coming back to life ?
Goku&Vegeta training with Whis ?
Freeza getting a new form ?

[radrappy]

dbzfan, relax. I know you wanted new characters and new situations but you really shouldn't be ready to riot based just on a condensed tie-in manga that may or may not even have actual dialogue from the real film.

Frieza didn't train before coming to earth the first time because 1) he claimed to be already much stronger in his mecha form and 2) he was planning on killing all the earthlings before Goku even returned. Part of Freeza's character is that he is arrogant beyond belief. Something like training has always been so far under him that it wasn't even worth considering. The difference between Broly and Freeza coming back is that Freeza was actually a character with personality who really helped shaped the continuity of the franchise in general. He's much more tied to Goku and Vegeta's history than any other villain thus far.

And as it has been said before, AT& co aren't stupid. They're obviously considering all these things that you're bellyaching about. Even the way all the characters are taking him lightly in the blog promos feels very in character and true to the manga. Do you really expect this thing to be fanfic levels of awful even based on all the glowing praise the scenario has received from people on the inside? Do you really think you're so clever that nothing could ever surprise you about this?

[TheGmGoken]

Toriyama hasn't been unpredictable in 20 years.

So you predicted :

Vegeta having a brother ?
Beerus and Whis ?
Super Saiyan God ?
Goku losing against Beerus ?
Vegeta getting a huge power up in BOG ?
The 12 universes ?
Freeza coming back to life ?
Goku&Vegeta training with Whis ?
Freeza getting a new form ?

Clearly an exaggeration.

Vegeta having a brother was always a possibility due my theory that King Vegeta had many kids and the strongest was proclaim his son.

A new Ssj form was sorta predictable. Or a reintroduce SSJ4.

I predicted Goku losing long before I saw or read the movie. Goku hasn't won a major fight since Freeza.

I already knew Vegeta was going to magically surpass Gohan and Gotenks somehow. He's the second most popular character


Whis training Goku and Vegeta is NOT a surprise.

Most of those weren't even Toriyama idea to begin with. Toriyama adjusted those ideas to fit his story the way he sees it. So don't give all credit to Toriyama. It's like giving McMahon credit for Stone Cold and The Rock. Vince Russo made them but McMahon adjusted them.

[Bullza]

So we should just accept anything new because its "New DB". Yeah I hate that claim sorry. Just because it's new doesn't make it good.

You have no choice. And I didn't say new is good. Anyway Movie F brought many good things like new fresh outfits and more, Toriyama work is almost unpredictable just wait and get surprised

Toriyama hasn't been unpredictable in 20 years. Unless you mean (IMO) unpredictability bad. Vegeta outfit isn't even all that new. It was on Tenkaichi series

Sour because Toriyama may not have put Goten in the new movie huh?

[Retan]

That's an original idea right there, (Possibly) don't put Goten in the new movie.

[dbzfan7]

dbzfan, relax. I know you wanted new characters and new situations but you really shouldn't be ready to riot based just on a condensed tie-in manga that may or may not even have actual dialogue from the real film.

Freeza didn't train before coming to earth the first time because 1) he claimed to be already much stronger in his mecha form and 2) he was planning on killing all the earthlings before Goku even returned. Part of Freeza's character is that he is arrogant beyond belief. Something like training has always been so far under him that it wasn't even worth considering. The difference between Broly and Freeza coming back is that Freeza was actually a character with personality who really helped shaped the continuity of the franchise in general. He's much more tied to Goku and Vegeta's history than any other villain thus far.

And as it has been said before, AT& co aren't stupid. They're obviously considering all these things that you're bellyaching about. Even the way all the characters are taking him lightly in the blog promos feels very in character and true to the manga. Do you really expect this thing to be fanfic levels of awful even based on all the glowing praise the scenario has received from people on the inside? Do you really think you're so clever that nothing could ever surprise you about this?

Freeza is arrogant, not stupid. His fear is a joke. He even says it's best to stay on the side of caution, and yet barely training a day or week would make him unbeatable. He's so afraid of Super Saiyans and the legends, but he has such an easy outlet that he has no reason to be afraid. He's truly afraid of actually having to do something. There's no reason to be afraid of stupid legend, when a brief training session can make all Super Saiyans play things to him.

Point with Broly is that people would still probably say everything is cool if he returned. So long as Toriyama is behind the wheel.

There is no way to know that as the last few releases have shown, he does not care to fact check or try to make his ideas work with his manga. His ideas can work with his manga if he tried to tie them in better. They aren't worthless ideas, just not fully thought out. Though I guess if it wasn't Toriyama making this up, more people would be upset.

Hell I'd be more than happy to be wrong. I want to be wrong and I want things to be great. However the more information released, the more I wonder why no one tries to think things through. Hells angels while a funny thing, just seems to be made for the sake of "Oh cutie angels are around mean ol Freeza poopy head". It could work better if we didn't have things like Freeza's body in hell, or why it takes years for Freeza to be dealt with, but they'll deal with Boo right away. Maybe Freeza is really such a goody two shoes and hell has that many worse people than him.

[TheGmGoken]

That's an original idea right there, (Possibly) don't put Goten in the new movie.

Sour because Toriyama may not have put Goten in the new movie huh?

I hated Battle of Gods and Goten appeared in it. I don't see the joke.

[Doctor.]

Toriyama hasn't been unpredictable in 20 years.

So you predicted :

Vegeta having a brother ?
Beerus and Whis ?
Super Saiyan God ?
Goku losing against Beerus ?
Vegeta getting a huge power up in BOG ?
The 12 universes ?
Freeza coming back to life ?
Goku&Vegeta training with Whis ?
Freeza getting a new form ?

It's not like all of those things were particularly good. Some were, some were not. Unpredictability is not always a good thing.

For example, if Freeza, somehow, redeems himself and becomes a good guy, that would be unpredictable. It would also be incredibly stupid.

[garnetjester]

Considering how Tenshinhan, Piccolo and Vegeta started out as enemies and then got redeemed and became friends with Goku I think it would be largely unoriginal.

[sintzu]

Considering how Tenshinhan, Piccolo and Vegeta started out as enemies and then got redeemed and became friends with Goku I think it would be largely unoriginal.

And it won't make sense looking at how bad he is.

Sure the 3 you mentioned weren't saints but they were nothing like him.

[Marco Polo]

The only way Freeza would get redeemed is if he knocks his head in a ravine.

[Sedorna]

Considering how Tenshinhan, Piccolo and Vegeta started out as enemies and then got redeemed and became friends with Goku I think it would be largely unoriginal.

And it won't make sense looking at how bad he is.

Sure the 3 you mentioned weren't saints but they were nothing like him.

Tenshinhan, I'll give you, but not Vegeta and not Piccolo Daimao, though perhaps Ma Junior would count, if only because he was stated to be not quite as evil as Piccolo Sr. However, the main reason that Freeza seems worse than Vegeta and Piccolo Daimao is because he was far more powerful than they were. At their height of their evilness, they were just as cruel and bloodthirsty as he was. Heck, I'd argue that Piccolo was even more so. At least Freeza was, unless you made him personally mad, "mercifully" quick in his slaughtering of a planet's innocent population. Piccolo Daimao wanted to have the people live in fear for years, if not longer, before he killed him.

Also, I'd consider Babidi to be one of the most evil characters in the show, even though he was one of the weakest.

Does this mean Freeza will become a "good guy" at the end of Fukkatsu no F? Maybe, maybe not. It seems highly unlikely, but then again, Goku has the amazing ability to make friends. The number of recurring allies that started off as enemies -- or, at least, adversaries--dwarf the allies that start of as allies. Off the top of my head, the first list has Bulma, Yamcha, Puar, Oolong, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Chaotzu, Vegeta, #18, Videl, and Majin Buu. The second has Bulma's parents, Roshi, Chi Chi, and Launch.

[GokuRules987]

Hopefully we get too see fighting taking place in vaccum of space, maybe whis teaches goku how to use his ki as alternative oxygen source or something.