Unpopular DB opinions

[Ringworm128]

I don't really see any story in dragonball. A lot of flashy "we must reach super saiyan X to beat the bad guy" stuff yes, but nothing of real substance. No real characters, and the plot is ludicrously contrived.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRS-VDKbnYE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_D_dk9iCiM

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't really see any story in dragonball. A lot of flashy "we must reach super saiyan X to beat the bad guy" stuff yes, but nothing of real substance. No real characters, and the plot is ludicrously contrived.

This isn't an opinion if it's wrong =/. There is a plot and SSJ X was only in 1 arc, the Artificial Human Arc. SSJ didn't exist in the Saiyan Arc. They weren't focused on SSJ in the Freeza Arc, Goku just hit it. SSJ2 beat the bad guy in the Artificial Humans Arc. A Genki Dama beat the bad guy in the Buu Arc. Yeah this series filled to the brim with power scaling but that doesn't take away from the series at all. I mean honesty, what the heck do you expect from a series with super-powered martial artists?

[Brodes]

Ignore my last post. I think I already stated that. Here's a differ one. Goku is NOT a bad father. He's better then 10% of Fathers in the world.

In which world? The Dragon Ball world or the real world? Because either way, being better than other bad dads doesn't make him a good one. Just that he's not the worst.

In real world. People say Goku's the worst father in the history(anime and real life). I think he's better then 10% of dads. He's not BAD but he's not GOOD.

I've never seen any body claim Goku was the worst ever father ever, even including real life. Because he's not. But he's pretty awful, and I'm surprised his family are on such good terms with him by the end. That's Dragon Ball for you though.

[DonZ]

It really annoy me when people says DragonBall doesn't have a plot. come on ..and it's coming from a fan of the series ?! now that's x1000 annoying. DB has a plot, not the best one. but it's .. ok.

[rereboy]

DB has a plot, not the best one. but it's .. ok.

For the kind of work DB is, its great.

[DBZAOTA482]

The RRA is mentioned a couple of times, because of Geros' sudden (retconned) association. The possibility the RRA is returning is never even brought up.

But every story arc since the Piccolo Daimao Saga was about Goku's past coming back to nip him in the bud, and Dr. Gero (the scientist that worked under the RRA) build those artificial beings to seek revenge against Goku.

I've never seen any body claim Goku was the worst ever father ever, even including real life. Because he's not. But he's pretty awful, and I'm surprised his family are on such good terms with him by the end. That's Dragon Ball for you though.

He is the worst father-in-law ever though.

[Zephyr]

I don't really see any story in dragonball. A lot of flashy "we must reach super saiyan X to beat the bad guy" stuff yes, but nothing of real substance. No real characters, and the plot is ludicrously contrived.

I think Gaffer Tape would disagree with you.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =6&t=19251

And if you think Dragon Ball is nothing but trying to reach new Super Saiyan forms, you must not be aware that there was a series before the Cell arc.

But there is a plot. There are climaxes and conclusions like in any story structure, and there is a great deal of character development.

[TheGmGoken]

Ignore my last post. I think I already stated that. Here's a differ one. Goku is NOT a bad father. He's better then 10% of Fathers in the world.

I've never seen any body claim Goku was the worst ever father ever, even including real life. Because he's not. But he's pretty awful, and I'm surprised his family are on such good terms with him by the end. That's Dragon Ball for you though.[/quote][/quote]

I;ve seen MANY people say Goku is the wort father ever. He's not awful IMO. He's not good or bad.

[Brodes]

Ignore my last post. I think I already stated that. Here's a differ one. Goku is NOT a bad father. He's better then 10% of Fathers in the world.

I've never seen any body claim Goku was the worst ever father ever, even including real life. Because he's not. But he's pretty awful, and I'm surprised his family are on such good terms with him by the end. That's Dragon Ball for you though.

[/quote]

I;ve seen MANY people say Goku is the wort father ever. He's not awful IMO. He's not good or bad.[/quote]

I don't understand how he isn't awful. He chooses to remain dead selfishly (under the guise of nobility), he refuses to come back to Earth just 'cause, takes off at a moments notice for long stretches of time, frequently puts everyone at risk for the sake of the fight, rarely around... and once his sons stop putting training/fighting first he seems to lose interest in them.

[TheGmGoken]

Ignore my last post. I think I already stated that. Here's a differ one. Goku is NOT a bad father. He's better then 10% of Fathers in the world.

I've never seen any body claim Goku was the worst ever father ever, even including real life. Because he's not. But he's pretty awful, and I'm surprised his family are on such good terms with him by the end. That's Dragon Ball for you though.

I;ve seen MANY people say Goku is the wort father ever. He's not awful IMO. He's not good or bad.[/quote]

I don't understand how he isn't awful. He chooses to remain dead selfishly (under the guise of nobility), he refuses to come back to Earth just 'cause, takes off at a moments notice for long stretches of time, frequently puts everyone at risk for the sake of the fight, rarely around... and once his sons stop putting training/fighting first he seems to lose interest in them.[/quote]


He chose to be dead to protect the Earth. Didn't he say he attracts villains. As soon as GOku returns in 7 ears Buu showed up. Which supports that. Him staying dead was the best thing for his son and wife. Now Gohan and study and be a scholar and ignore fighting like he always wanted. Chi Chi can have less stress on GOhan's safety. Only downside is maybe the first week they missed Goku. Untill they realize it's best for him to be gone. GOku wasn't being selfish. He was saving the Earth. His refused to come back on Earth to get stronger. Didn't Goku say to Trunks "I knew I should have finish Freeza off". Meaning he had a bad feeling about Freeza. How do he put everyone else lives at risk? The villains attack Goku do they not? Only time he put everyone life at risk was when he was trying to unlock Gohan power and the Cell Jr came. Every other time he was being attacked or was on the side lines. OH YEA if one count BOG then He was studying on how to beat Birshu. I don't think Goku lose interest for his kids. He stop going to the reunions. That's all.

[Saiga]

But every story arc since the Piccolo Daimao Saga was about Goku's past coming back to nip him in the bud, and Dr. Gero (the scientist that worked under the RRA) build those artificial beings to seek revenge against Goku.

No, it wasn't. Only Raditz and Gero were somewhat like this.

[Zephyr]

But every story arc since the Piccolo Daimao Saga was about Goku's past coming back to nip him in the bud, and Dr. Gero (the scientist that worked under the RRA) build those artificial beings to seek revenge against Goku.

No, it wasn't. Only Raditz and Gero were somewhat like this.

To be fair, you could argue the 23rd TB arc as qualifying as well.

[Saiga]

To be fair, you could argue the 23rd TB arc as qualifying as well.

Goku was aware of Junior the whole time though, wasn't he? It can't be his past coming back if it never really went away.

[Zephyr]

Depends. I mean, Ma Junior was still coming to get revenge on Goku, for something Goku did previously.

[Brodes]

He chose to be dead to protect the Earth. Didn't he say he attracts villains. As soon as GOku returns in 7 ears Buu showed up. Which supports that. Him staying dead was the best thing for his son and wife. Now Gohan and study and be a scholar and ignore fighting like he always wanted. Chi Chi can have less stress on GOhan's safety. Only downside is maybe the first week they missed Goku. Untill they realize it's best for him to be gone. GOku wasn't being selfish. He was saving the Earth. His refused to come back on Earth to get stronger. Didn't Goku say to Trunks "I knew I should have finish Freeza off". Meaning he had a bad feeling about Freeza. How do he put everyone else lives at risk? The villains attack Goku do they not? Only time he put everyone life at risk was when he was trying to unlock Gohan power and the Cell Jr came. Every other time he was being attacked or was on the side lines. OH YEA if one count BOG then He was studying on how to beat Birshu. I don't think Goku lose interest for his kids. He stop going to the reunions. That's all.

The only reason he has to worry about people attacking Earth is because he keeps doing stupid shit. Allowing ultra-powerful Androids to be created just so he can "test his skills", giving Cell senzu beans, giving Furiza his own energy and letting him live... If Goku actually cared about anything but getting his Saiyan Battle rocks off he wouldn't have done any of that. Same with his wonky "Oh I'm staying dead!" excuse. He does that purely because he can. Buu would have shown up regardless of Gokus appearance and as Goku actually says later that he could have defeated Buu, but didn't, well, that's just ridiculous and makes him even more of a dick.

You even say that him staying dead was the best thing for his wife and son? Besides leaving her with a new baby to raise, that kind of proves that he is really just an awful father. The only way they could reach any compromise on Gohans future was for Goku to be dead. That's just some great fathering.

Saying with hindsight that he "should have finished off Furiza"? No dice, Goku. Everybody told him that. Repeatedly. He knew that himself, but was more concerned with fighting than doing the right thing. He simply can't follow other peoples advice, he thinks he knows better than everyone, and the proof is in the opposite. Just like Trunks told him to take the medicine so he could, you know, not die and fight with everyone, he said he would, but he didn't feel sick, so he ignored the medication and kept pushing his body through training. He puts himself on the sidelines.

I love Goku, he's an interesting hero, he always gives it his all and he is a fun person. But he's also really, really, selfish and not somebody I would ever want on my team because of that.

[ABED]

He wasn't alone about the Cyborgs. Vegeta and Piccolo (the smartest character in the series arguably) agreed, and no one else seemed to have strong objections.

"He does that purely because he can."
You're right, he's stupid and hates everyone. Goku is very upfront about his reasons, as much as you might disagree, he did it because he thought it was the best thing for everyone. You can't blame him for Buu showing up. He didn't know about that. As for not defeating Buu, that's on Toriyama for not thinking ahead and having to retcon an explanation. Even in universe, having the living defend themselves makes sense. Even the Elder Kaioshin agrees.

Goku didn't know about Goten, you can't blame him for that.

He didn't finish off Freeza because he wanted to show mercy. It wasn't about fighting.

You're blaming him for not taking medicine? He didn't show any symptoms and for all he knew, Trunks was wrong, or it would've wasted the medicine. You keep finding ridiculous reasons to criticize him.

I would want Goku on my team because he never loses when everything is on the line. He's a gentile person who loves life. He's not the perfect model or father, but you could do a LOT worse.

[Brodes]

He wasn't alone about the Cyborgs. Vegeta and Piccolo (the smartest character in the series arguably) agreed, and no one else seemed to have strong objections.

"He does that purely because he can."
You're right, he's stupid and hates everyone. Goku is very upfront about his reasons, as much as you might disagree, he did it because he thought it was the best thing for everyone. You can't blame him for Buu showing up. He didn't know about that. As for not defeating Buu, that's on Toriyama for not thinking ahead and having to retcon an explanation. Even in universe, having the living defend themselves makes sense. Even the Elder Kaioshin agrees.

Goku didn't know about Goten, you can't blame him for that.

He didn't finish off Freeza because he wanted to show mercy. It wasn't about fighting.

You're blaming him for not taking medicine? He didn't show any symptoms and for all he knew, Trunks was wrong, or it would've wasted the medicine. You keep finding ridiculous reasons to criticize him.

I would want Goku on my team because he never loses when everything is on the line. He's a gentile person who loves life. He's not the perfect model or father, but you could do a LOT worse.

Whoa now, I never blamed him for Buu's appearance. I said Buu would have shown up regardless of Goku's existance. I blame him for not defeating Buu (retcon or not, it's part of the story and does reflect badly on Goku), sure, regardless of what the Kaioshin say.

And, what, he never once checked in with his family, just to make sure they were okay while he was dead?

It shouldn't have been about mercy with Furiza, not after everything he'd done in the past month, let alone everything else. He was not going to be changed or rehabilitated.

It was a preventative medicine, too. So, no it wouldn't have wasted it.

Why does "being able to do worse" keep getting bandied about as a defence? Being worse than bad doesn't make bad suddenly good.

[ABED]

That didn't come out right, I meant to say, Goku had no idea Buu would come, so the fact that he came regardless of Goku being there or not (arguable) doesn't say anything about Goku's decision. He based his decision on the information he had at the time, and Goku seems to draw enemies to him. It's not the best logic but he didn't stay dead because he could. He thought he was doing the right thing.

What do you mean check in with them. He's dead.

I don't recall it being preventative, regardless, Goku's not the smartest character. He didn't not take the drug because he thought he knew better. He wasn't arrogant. The medicine might be preventative, but he only has one vial for that 3 year period and he showed NO symptoms. If I recall, he told him to take it if he showed any signs of the disease. He didn't, thus why he didn't take it.

I'm with you on Goku shouldn't have shown Freeza mercy. However, your point was that he let him go to fight him later.

I didn't say "could do worse" as a defence as much as putting it in perspective. He's not the best dad or husband (chichi's not the best wife or mother either), but he didn't abuse his children, and Gohan could take care of himself.

That retcon reflects badly on Toriyama for not thinking ahead.

[TheGmGoken]

The only reason he has to worry about people attacking Earth is because he keeps doing stupid shit. Allowing ultra-powerful Androids to be created just so he can "test his skills", giving Cell senzu beans, giving Furiza his own energy and letting him live... If Goku actually cared about anything but getting his Saiyan Battle rocks off he wouldn't have done any of that. Same with his wonky "Oh I'm staying dead!" excuse. He does that purely because he can. Buu would have shown up regardless of Gokus appearance and as Goku actually says later that he could have defeated Buu, but didn't, well, that's just ridiculous and makes him even more of a dick.

You even say that him staying dead was the best thing for his wife and son? Besides leaving her with a new baby to raise, that kind of proves that he is really just an awful father. The only way they could reach any compromise on Gohans future was for Goku to be dead. That's just some great fathering.

Saying with hindsight that he "should have finished off Furiza"? No dice, Goku. Everybody told him that. Repeatedly. He knew that himself, but was more concerned with fighting than doing the right thing. He simply can't follow other peoples advice, he thinks he knows better than everyone, and the proof is in the opposite. Just like Trunks told him to take the medicine so he could, you know, not die and fight with everyone, he said he would, but he didn't feel sick, so he ignored the medication and kept pushing his body through training. He puts himself on the sidelines.

I love Goku, he's an interesting hero, he always gives it his all and he is a fun person. But he's also really, really, selfish and not somebody I would ever want on my team because of that.

I hope you know Vegeta and Piccolo both said they wanted to fight the androids. Can't blame just Goku for that. Goku has pride as well. I don't think he wanted a cheap victory. Giving Cell a bean was to be fair. Once again Goku have fighting pride. He rather a fair fight then to cheat. Gohan was at full and Cell was not. Letting Freeza live. I admit was stupid but think of it as this. In Draqgonball Goku showed little mercy. However once he trained with Kami he vegan to show it. Blame Kami for teaching him that everyone can change. Everyone deserves a second chance IMO. I'm pretty sure that Goku knew had Freeza came to Earth he would easily beat him. THat or Freeza was to damage to even fight again. I brought up Buu because as Goku said he attracts evil. It funny cause as soon as Goku came Buu came lol. Which proved Bulma theory. Buu wasn't after Goku but it was just bad timing. Goku dying was the best thing for Chi Chi, Gohan , and even GOTEN. Look how less stressful Chi Chi is. Look how much Gohan achieved. Goten didn't have to deal with Chi Chi while she's stressful. Goku don't think he knows everything. When Piccolo told Goku about how Gohan is not a fighter Goku listened. Only time Goku thought he was above everyone was Freeza. Trunks TOLD Goku to take the medicine when he began showing signs of the virus. He never got signs so no medicine needed. If the doctors told you to take a pill ONLY if you get signs of a virus or diseased you would wait to you get a sigh correct. Him not killing Buu was not him being a bad father. He wanted everyone to step their game up. To be honest it was Gotenks and Gohan fault for Buu destroying the Earth. They toyed around with Buu. Now may I ask. Can we mention movies or just anime-manga? Going on with my statement. Goku spent ALL of the 7 day wait with Gohan. Not training or fighting. Just relaxing.

[ABED]

I have to comment on giving the senzu to Cell. It would only be stupid if Gohan wasn't FAR stronger than Cell. Once Gohan turned SS2, it was already not a fair fight. It just shows how confident Goku was in his son.