Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[pacz360]

Majin Boo was chosen over Piccolo to fight in the preliminaries. Does this pretty much kill the whole Base Saiyan have God ki theory?

Oh for God's sake, Piccolo never was God tier, just accept the two-base theory once and for all.

There no two base crap wait until the next episodes

[HeroR]

Majin Boo was chosen over Piccolo to fight in the preliminaries. Does this pretty much kill the whole Base Saiyan have God ki theory?

Base form never had god ki. Their base forms are just extremely powerful.

I really dont see how any of you see this episode as a confirmation of the two base theory bullshit you guys keep pushing.

It is funny that this theory keeps going even when the show makes a point to say that Goku's base form doesn't have god ki and no one said anything about Goku's base form being stronger when he fought Hit, which would have been the perfect time to used this supposed super strong base form.

It comes with a mixed of people making Piccolo stronger and trying to say the entire U6 team outside of Hit are weaker than Buu Saga characters.

[Noah]

...Trying to say the entire U6 team outside of Hit are weaker than Buu Saga characters.

Which is plausible indeed and I quote:

I have a much easier time accepting Toriyama just dropped the God Ki amp for Base than I ever will accepting a scrub like Cabba being above SS3 Vegetto in Base.

[HeroR]

...Trying to say the entire U6 team outside of Hit are weaker than Buu Saga characters.

Which is plausible indeed and I quote:

I have a much easier time accepting Toriyama just dropped the God Ki amp for Base than I ever will accepting a scrub like Cabba being above SS3 Vegetto in Base.

Base on nothing, especially since the show never acknowledged this supposed 'retcon', like they did with the revision of Vegetto.

Cry me a river if you don't want to believe that Cabba can beat wank-fest Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto's ass. He, like Super Buu, is last season.

[Marlowe89]

Speculating in the meantime here but the preview in general seemed to imply that Buu isn't taking Basil that seriously, at least to start with, and I don't imagine there being some astronomical difference in strength between the three brothers. Even if Basil wasn't using his full strength, it also didn't look like he was holding back that much either given some of his expressions in the preview and Goku's compliments.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Buu takes the first match and then loses the next one, but I could be completely wrong. In any case I already have the impression that there isn't too large of a gap between the two contestants. We'll see how this pans out.

[RehBeh]

...Trying to say the entire U6 team outside of Hit are weaker than Buu Saga characters.

Which is plausible indeed and I quote:

I have a much easier time accepting Toriyama just dropped the God Ki amp for Base than I ever will accepting a scrub like Cabba being above SS3 Vegetto in Base.

Base on nothing, especially since the show never acknowledged this supposed 'retcon', like they did with the revision of Vegetto.

Cry me a river if you don't want to believe that Cabba can beat wank-fest Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto's ass. He, like Super Buu, is last season.

It's actually very possible. Remeber in ROF movie and the Arc SSGSS was treated as a regular SSJ with God Ki, meaning that it replaced the form. Both Goku and Vegeta refer to it simply as "Super Saiyan".
However beginning with Champa's tournament Goku and Vegeta can turn into regular SSJ again.
Toriyama already dropped the "SSJ stronger than 2/3" already, with them using the form's again.
Again not saying that this is true, but it's very possible.

[HeroR]

It's actually very possible. Remeber in ROF movie and the Arc SSGSS was treated as a regular SSJ with God Ki, meaning that it replaced the form. Both Goku and Vegeta refer to it simply as "Super Saiyan".
However beginning with Champa's tournament Goku and Vegeta can turn into regular SSJ again.
Again not saying that this is true, but it's very possible.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is Super Saiyan with god ki, as Goku described it in both the movie and series. And Toriyama called all forms of Super Saiyan just Super Saiyan since they're just extensions of the normal Super Saiyan form. Which is why you had characters call Super Saiyan 2 just Super Saiyan in the show.

[RehBeh]

It's actually very possible. Remeber in ROF movie and the Arc SSGSS was treated as a regular SSJ with God Ki, meaning that it replaced the form. Both Goku and Vegeta refer to it simply as "Super Saiyan".
However beginning with Champa's tournament Goku and Vegeta can turn into regular SSJ again.
Again not saying that this is true, but it's very possible.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is Super Saiyan with god ki, as Goku described it in both the movie and series. And Toriyama called all forms of Super Saiyan just Super Saiyan since they're just extensions of the normal Super Saiyan form. Which is why you had characters call Super Saiyan 2 just Super Saiyan in the show.

SSGSS was meant to replace regular SSJ. Goku says that it's a Super Saiyan of a Saiyan that absorbed SSG powers.
Toriyama said that SSJ was going to replace SS2/SS3 but he dropped the idea in Champa/Black Arc
with them using them again. He hasn't addressed the retcon yet. I can see him doing something similar with what i said above.

[omaro34]

But if was choosing the three strongest fighters in his universe, including himself, to fight in the preliminaries, surely Piccolo should have been among them if we're believing that he is as strong as Goku and Vegeta in thier base form, which is supposedly SSJG tier and has God ki on by default. Yet he chose Majin Boo over him. Pretty much confirming Piccolo is still far down the pecking order and as such throws an almighty spanner in the whole "Saiyan Beyond God" theory

Goku intially was going to pick goten and trunks before gohan and buu besides has hax on his side.

No he didn't. He saw Goten and Trunks train, took a nice, long hard think and thought, "Yeah...those kids are scrubs. Now where the fuck is Majin Boo? He'll get shit done. He's future of the new generation of fighters. Him and that glasses guy."

Buu just happened to be with Satan, and Goku is very spontaneous in his thinking. Once he saw Buu, he wanted to recruit him.

Hell, Vegeta was the one who suggested Gohan to him.

[HeroR]

SSGSS was meant to replace regular SSJ. Goku says that it's a Super Saiyan of a Saiyan that absorbed SSG powers.
Toriyama said that SSJ was going to replace SS2/SS3 but he dropped the idea in Champa/Black Arc
with them using them again. He hasn't addressed the retcon yet. I can see him doing something similar with what i said above.

No it wasn't. That was all fans assumption. Toriyama never said that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was a replacement for Super Saiyan. And that line is in the dub. In the original Japanese version Goku only called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan with god ki. Nothing about Super Saiyan God.

That wasn't what he said. He said that Goku learned from his battle with Beerus that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 were just extensions of Super Saiyan and he will work towards making his base and Super Saiyan forms stronger instead of creating new forms, and he may not used those forms again. And even then, Goku only used Super Saiyan 3 once to show to Trunks and never used it in a real battle. Super Saiyan 2 he used to test Black and Zamasu.

[RehBeh]

SSGSS was meant to replace regular SSJ. Goku says that it's a Super Saiyan of a Saiyan that absorbed SSG powers.
Toriyama said that SSJ was going to replace SS2/SS3 but he dropped the idea in Champa/Black Arc
with them using them again. He hasn't addressed the retcon yet. I can see him doing something similar with what i said above.

No it wasn't. That was all fans assumption. Toriyama never said that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was a replacement for Super Saiyan. And that line is in the dub. In the original Japanese version Goku only called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan with god ki. Nothing about Super Saiyan God.

That wasn't what he said. He said that Goku learned from his battle with Beerus that Super Saiyan 2 and 3 were just extensions of Super Saiyan and he will work towards making his base and Super Saiyan forms stronger instead of creating new forms, and he may not used those forms again. And even then, Goku only used Super Saiyan 3 once to show to Trunks and never used it in a real battle. Super Saiyan 2 he used to test Black and Zamasu.

Just checked and Goku says that "This is a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God as Super Saiyan". And is the Japanese version, not the dub.
Goku and Vegeta used the forms which throws in the garbage can the idea of SSJ becoming stronger than SS2/3. They wouldn't use if that was the case.

[dbgtFO]

And that line is in the dub. In the original Japanese version Goku only called Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan with god ki. Nothing about Super Saiyan God.

You're just going to keep trotting out that lie, despite being proven wrong about it?

[TheGreatSaiyaman]

In terms of power, would it still be Piccolo < Buu < Gohan?

[Cetra]

Toriyama said that SSJ was going to replace SS2/SS3 but he dropped the idea in Champa/Black Arc

Well, he worded it like Goku might not use it again not that he definitely would stop.

[RehBeh]

Toriyama said that SSJ was going to replace SS2/SS3 but he dropped the idea in Champa/Black Arc

Well, he worded it like Goku might not use it again not that he definitely would stop.

Guess you're right. After all he said probably not definitely.

[HeroR]

Just checked and Goku says that "This is a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God as Super Saiyan". And is the Japanese version, not the dub.
Goku and Vegeta used the forms which throws in the garbage can the idea of SSJ becoming stronger than SS2/3. They wouldn't use if that was the case.

Toriyama said in the long run using Super Saiyan would be better and make Goku stronger than using the extended Super Saiyan 2 and 3 forms.

[RehBeh]

Toriyama said in the long run using Super Saiyan would be better and make Goku stronger than using the extended Super Saiyan 2 and 3 forms.

Which seems that this isn't true anymore, after the revival of the other forms.

[HeroR]

Toriyama said in the long run using Super Saiyan would be better and make Goku stronger than using the extended Super Saiyan 2 and 3 forms.

Which seems that this isn't true anymore, after the revival of the other forms.

He only used Super Saiyan 3 once, twice if you count Episode 76 since he got his god form. Super Saiyan 2 was used to test people and never used in real combat. When he wants to conserved, he uses Super Saiyan. When he's serious, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

[Bullza]

I never considered the idea that this exhibition would play out like the Universe 6 Tournament. I just figured after Buu vs Basil they'd move on to Gohan vs Lavender. If the winners carry over though then that would be useful.

For the best consistentlcy what it needs is for Lavender to beat Buu easily and then when Gohan fights him he uses Super Saiyan from the start. Lavender wins a tough fight and then Goku steps in and easily beats Lavender in his Base form.

That's what's needed for consistency really as it'd make it

Base Goku > Super Saiyan Gohan > Buu > Base Gohan = Piccolo

[namekiansaiyan]

There is no such thing as 'God tier'as none of you can provide a boundary for it. Even if it did exist people can still be weaker than Goku and Vegeta and be 'God Tier'.

Goku never really chose the 2 fighters. Vegeta suggested Gohan and Buu just happened to be there as well. Goku only had an hour to get his 2 fighters and be at Zeno's so Goku got who came first.

I do think Beerus was expecting Vegeta and Piccolo for these fights.