Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[El Diabeetus]

Please. The people who are bitching are still going to buy it. Funimation could replace the entire cast with dogs barking and cats meowing and people will buy it, because it's still DBZ, and most American DBZ fans have no standards. That's why the Funimation cast is popular.

Just because the voices and quirks aren't exactly like the original Japanese doesn't mean that it's bad. Saying the American/Dub DBZ Fans having no standards is like calling the entire Dub fanbase retarded just more nicely worded.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Japanese voices, Kikuchi score. I love both versions, but to say that an entire group of people are stupid/standard less just because they don't like the same things seems kinda condescending to me.

So what, Schemmel ain't Nozawa, and Sabat isn't Horikawa. Oh, well. That's pretty odd to think you'll find a perfect equivalent to Nozawa in English, it's almost impossible to be done. And I'm sure the all-around English fanbase will find it weird if Goku gets a female actor when he's an adult. Horikawa you could find a voice match, but there's no way Sabat would give up Vegeta.

I may be wrong, but that's the vibe I got from it. And, I normally have no problem when somethings said about the FUNimation cast.

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Well, to make it relavent with the Ocean Cast, here's who I'd like to see do voices:

Goku: Brad Swaile (Plus, it'd be ironic (to me) with him also as Light in Death Note.)
Gohan (Child): Saffron Henderson or Cathy Weseluck
Piccolo: Scott McNeil
Vegeta: Brian Drummond (With a few alterations in how he delivers.)
Krillin: ???
Freeza: Alessandro Juliani (Someone else said this, and I think he could do this. Plus, Goku vs. Freeza would have a Death Note connection again with them being Light and L's voices.)
Muten Roshi: French Tickner (Great old wise man voice.)
Yamcha: Kirby Morrow (This is the DBZ guy I could see him voicing.)
Tenshinhan: Trevor Devall (Just seems like it would work to me.)

Will add more if I can think of them.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Please. The people who are bitching are still going to buy it. Funimation could replace the entire cast with dogs barking and cats meowing and people will buy it, because it's still DBZ, and most American DBZ fans have no standards. That's why the Funimation cast is popular.

I still disagree. I will concur that DBZ is one of the safer things to sell in a business that is not doing very well (thank you fansubs ), but it's not like everything DBZ-related will sell like hot cakes. Take the Dragon Boxes, for example. They're only just selling well enough to justify their continued release. Most fans, including major anime outlets like Anime News Network, have labeled the Dragon Boxes as "just another re-release, keep the orange bricks." From my observation, it would seem that while the Japanese version is more popular globally--as the Daizex moderators have noted, it's the only version that can be enjoyed globally--the reversioned dub is more popular in America.

Also...not to get too touchy, but I don't know that too many people would appreciate the "I-am-holier-than-thou" attitude given off by saying that people who don't agree with your personal opinion have no standards.

[penguintruth]

So what, Schemmel ain't Nozawa, and Sabat isn't Horikawa. Oh, well. That's pretty odd to think you'll find a perfect equivalent to Nozawa in English, it's almost impossible to be done. And I'm sure the all-around English fanbase will find it weird if Goku gets a female actor when he's an adult. Horikawa you could find a voice match, but there's no way Sabat would give up Vegeta.

I may be wrong, but that's the vibe I got from it. And, I normally have no problem when somethings said about the FUNimation cast.

I'm not necessarily looking for Masako Nozawa in English, or even a female VA, but it's clear to me that Sean Schemmel is plain wrong for the character and anyone who understands the character should easily be able to identify why. Just because Schemmel isn't a good Goku doesn't mean a good English Goku can't exist, he's just not it.

Ocean has the good sense of telling Kirby Morrow that his Goku sucks (though they did it passive agressively by calling it "too cool"). Obviously they actually care about casting a Goku that fits the character. I hope it works out.

[El Diabeetus]

I'm not necessarily looking for Masako Nozawa in English, or even a female VA, but it's clear to me that Sean Schemmel is plain wrong for the character and anyone who understands the character should easily be able to identify why. Just because Schemmel isn't a good Goku doesn't mean a good English Goku can't exist, he's just not it.

Ocean has the good sense of telling Kirby Morrow that his Goku sucks (though they did it passive agressively by calling it "too cool"). Obviously they actually care about casting a Goku that fits the character. I hope it works out.

Ah, that makes a lot more sense. But, even than; I still don't think we'll get the completely right guy. As of right now they only guy currently at Ocean I can see fitting the qualifications of the original character would be Brad Swaile, not too deep of a voice, not too high either. But, I can't remember every single actors name there; so I may not be the best guy to ask, haha.

I'm glad they said that to Kirby Morrow, he's a great actor; wasn't buying his Goku though.

[penguintruth]

There are other guys at Ocean other than Brad Swaile. And who's to say they can't hire somebody entirely new? They rolled the dice with a lot of the Death Note cast and it turned out amazing. The perfect English Goku might be somewhere out there waiting to be found.

[JulieYBM]

Oh Lord.

Why did Andrew Francis' voice coming out of Gokû's mouth just appear in my mind?


Heh. If this new production team can be picky enough to drop Morrow maybe they can afford Corlett for you Corlett fans? :p

[El Diabeetus]

There are other guys at Ocean other than Brad Swaile. And who's to say they can't hire somebody entirely new? They rolled the dice with a lot of the Death Note cast and it turned out amazing. The perfect English Goku might be somewhere out there waiting to be found.

I know there's more guys at Ocean. But, Brad's really the only not completely deep voice man that I can think of there. Actually, I'm basing most of this off of the Death Note dub. I love the dub for it. Especially Brian Drummond as Ryuk; I believe that he was better than Shidoh Nakamura in the role to be honest.

But, we'll see how this cast turns out once this leaves the ground.

I personally find it funny that even though there's more evidence (not much though), it's just all been mostly speculation like the previous thread months ago.

[penguintruth]

I'd prefer Kelamis myself. It's not like his comedy career's gone anywhere.

(Oh hey, praising and insulting somebody in the same breath!)

Corlett might work, too. But frankly, I'd rather hear somebody who's better than everyone who's played the role thus far.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I'd prefer Kelamis myself. It's not like his comedy career's gone anywhere.

I wouldn't put that on a lack of talent, though. Comedy is a very luck-of-the-draw business as far as who gets a big break and who doesn't. I watched his entire routine up on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3ADRHxi ... re=related

Quite frankly, I went to it many months ago to see what he looked like, and ended up watching the whole routine because he's hilarious.

[Mewzard]

Please. The people who are bitching are still going to buy it. Funimation could replace the entire cast with dogs barking and cats meowing and people will buy it, because it's still DBZ, and most American DBZ fans have no standards. That's why the Funimation cast is popular.

No standards? Who are you to judge quality and to condemn an entire nation's views (especially considering it's fully of diverse view). I admit the first dub of Z was rough. Both Ocean and Funi had several flaws for every good thing in the original dubs. But, the Kai dub is a massive improvement for Funi's cast. Improved scripts, no music altering, improved acting, etc. I'm not so willing to go back after getting this much improvement.

And I think Sean Schemmel is perfect for Goku in English. Yet, I do think I understand Goku. Do you think you can say you understand him more, despite the fact that I've followed the series for over 12 years, read the entire manga, watched all of Z, most of DB, and a bit of GT, I've been on forums and fansites for years, and played many games. I love Dragon Ball, it means a lot to me. Goku is one of my favorite characters in fiction, and I think his key traits are being done on the money with Schemmel's improved acting and more natural tone. He captures the innocent, cheerful charm, his battle passion, and the occasional rage quite well.

Sorry for going off topic for a bit, needed to vent.

Now, if Kirby Morrow isn't going to be Goku, then it falls to a new guy, most likely. The other prior Goku left and it's anybody's guess if they could be convinced to return. New blood might not hurt, if they can't find any viable options. Careful casting could work out well for them. But, then the question becomes, who else won't be able to come back? Will we end up stuck with 90% of the old cast getting das boot? Would the fanbase put up with the loss of their bigger name actors? I mean, look how much flack Funi got for their few replacements and how much rage the Spanish fanbase is releasing, rightfully so.

And then becomes the question...how accurate will the script be? Are we talking redoing old scripts? Copying Funi Scripts? Better? Worse? And will they stick with Kai's music, or replace it with other music? If all of that turns out well, there's still the possibility that they might not get the best voice director. Could good actors be lead down a bad direction? There's so many factors to consider. That's the problem with these kinds of things, too many factors.

[penguintruth]

And I think Sean Schemmel is perfect for Goku in English. Yet, I do think I understand Goku. Do you think you can say you understand him more, despite the fact that I've followed the series for over 12 years, read the entire manga, watched all of Z, most of DB, and a bit of GT, I've been on forums and fansites for years, and played many games. I love Dragon Ball, it means a lot to me. Goku is one of my favorite characters in fiction, and I think his key traits are being done on the money with Schemmel's improved acting and more natural tone. He captures the innocent, cheerful charm, his battle passion, and the occasional rage quite well.

Bullshit. Schemmel doesn't capture any of that. There's no glow to his Goku, nothing charming or endearing the way Nozawa plays him. His playfulness comes off as some corny adult trying to be funny, not geniune at all. And his anger comes off as the anger of an ordinary man, not a purehearted manchild with godlike power. He reeks of falseness, of phoniness, and it often makes me angry because there's so much more charm to the character than he gives him. Perfect? No English VA has ever been perfect for Goku.

Maybe Ocean can find somebody who is.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'll go ahead and say I agree with penguintruth, but I would extend that to DB fans of all types. Quite a few DB fans will buy anything with DB on it, whether they prefer the original or a dub. They will double dip, triple dip, quadruple dip. Screw choosing between the orange bricks, DBox, or Kai. They'll just grab all of them! I do also agree that it wouldn't matter if FUNimation or Toei for that matter replaced the entire cast with just the sound of belching. There would still be people buying it if only to bitch about it. So, yes, those FUNimation Z loyalists might be complaining about certain cast changes, lack of Faulconer music, but I would bet real money that a lot of them are still buying Kai.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I wouldn't put that on a lack of talent, though. Comedy is a very luck-of-the-draw business as far as who gets a big break and who doesn't. I watched his entire routine up on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3ADRHxi ... re=related


Quite frankly, I went to it many months ago to see what he looked like, and ended up watching the whole routine because he's hilarious

I agree, he was actually pretty funny.


While this may be kinda off-topic, I just found out from Wikipedia that Peter Kelamis was born in Australia and is of Greek decent. My views on his acting ability have mysteriously changed.

[ohaimynameiserik]

Bullshit.

Flame war bait. That's really all you ever have going for you, and makes the rest of your post which is relatively well thought out take a backseat. Sort out your own issues you have that keep you from friendly communicating with others before you try to make an argument meant to be taken seriously by anyone who doesn't agree with you.

As for English Goku, I dunno if I'd say Schemmel is perfect for the role, but his performance in Kai is not bad at all. In fact, I'd say it's pretty good. I'm looking forward to hearing Ocean's, but I really think they won't treat the series properly. The voices may just end up being wasted on a poor adaptation. Previous Ocean actors made him sound like an idiot. I understand that's part of the charm, but not an idiot in an "ohh, that Goku, he's so naive" kind of way but more like a "my god, will you just STOP YELLING" kind of way. I'm hoping for a brand new voice entirely.

[RazorX]

The better dub? Those are fighting words, good sir! Joking aside, some people may disagree with that.

Perhaps, but I don't disagree with my views

This is why I'm glad Morrow's getting the boot. He's a great VA, but he was a terrible Goku. If only Funimation had so much sense.

Maybe if you watched back to back episodes of Ocean's entire Buu saga (Great Saiyaman-Kid Buu) you might appreciate Morrow's Goku, if you think he's a good VA.

Jeez, no need to get offended. I did indeed read your post, but I treated it--as I treat all info regarding the Ocean/Westwood Media dub--with a grain of salt. Not because I doubt you, but only because everybody who claims to have official information on that dub has never cited any official sources or provided links to official sources. I once asked somebody who printed all that info on their YouTube profile, and they simply said, "I don't know if that's true, that's just what I've heard." So until Gen Fukunaga or an Ocean executive comes forward to clarify things, I treat all of this "info" as rumor.

Likewise, I treated that Daizex poster's response the same way. That's also why I included the word "supposedly." I could probably dig it up with some time and effort, but as I recall the Daizex poster claimed to be a former FUNimation employee. Then again, who knows if he was telling the truth, right?

I didn't get offended. If my post came across that way it may have been my reaction to that "daizex poster" and there's a reason for that. You may be familiar with the rumour about Ocean producing their dub in one year. I don't know who started it but it spread across the internet like a virus, sadly even some Ocean fans started believing that bullshit rumour. I had to correct a lot of people and some people wrongfully bashed Ocean because of that rumour. The reason I knew that Ocean took longer than a year to produce their dub is because in the early to mid 2000s there were some really big Ocean dub fansites, they managed to interview a few Ocean cast members and based on what they said, you could estimate the amount of time Ocean took on their dub with some accuracy. I estimated that the Westwood/Ocean dub of DBZ took between 2 and a half to 3 years. I wouldn't want that bullshit "Ocean copied the scripts of Funi's dub when it was broadcast" rumour to spread like the "one year" rumour.

Gen Fukanaga may not a good source for information on the later Ocean dub. He probably doesn't know any more about it than we do. Ocean and Funi were competitors, it's natural for competitors to want to conceal information from each other.

A much better source would be the directors/voice directors or the license holders who gave Ocean the job of dubbing DBZ.

Kirby Morrow said something interesting. He said he worked on Goku for 3 years. That is official refutation of the bullshit "produced in one year" rumour. Kirby joined the dub on episode 145 but Ocean's later dub started at episode 108, so if it took Ocean 3 years to dub DBZ from 145 onwards, then they took more than 3 years for their entire Westwood/Ocean dub run, which is more than the time I estimated.

He, like you, didn't cite any official sources.

I did cite an official source, but maybe I wasn't clear enough. I know some of Ocean's voice actors worked with Funi on the script. They are credited on Funimation's ending credits. At the ending credits of an episode from the Cell saga, or even Buu saga, look who are credited under "Writers"

Or you could watch this

The problem with waiting for official confirmation on aspects of the Ocean/Westwood dub is that you're not likely to get it. If I waited for information from official Ocean sources, I wouldn't know a lot of the things I do know about the Ocean dub, which I found out by researching it.

I wasn't saying that was FUNimation's fault. I was merely saying that the Ocean dub is synonymous with "the next dimension".

No it's not. "Next dimension" is connected with Funimation and Saban, not Ocean. For the first 2 sagas, Ocean were hired for the voice acting. The script and edit decisions were made by Funimation and Saban. It's unfair to place the blame of "next dimension" lines on Ocean. Voice actors are not allowed to change the script as they please, they have to follow what is given to them. I don't connect the next dimension lines with Ocean at all. (I watch the Westwood/Ocean episodes much more than the Saban/Ocean ones)

But, Drummond's deliveries of "next dimension" were cool.

[batistabus]

Schemmel's delivery has made me smile on multiple occasions. I believe it.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

Well, supposedly Ocean didn't "purchase" FUNi's script. I recall a Daizex poster saying that apparently it was just some guy watching the FUNi dub and jotting down what was said, then copying the script verbatim. I would not have paid much attention to that were it not for the fact that shortly before I read that, Schemmel had written that apparently Ocean "stole" their script from FUNi back in the day. He said the reason he knew this was because occasionally when the script wasn't working, he and Sabat would change or modify some of the lines. These changes were not noted in the original English scripts, they just did them on the fly. Yet somehow, the changes appeared on the Ocean dub as well.

Did you ignore my post where I answered your question? Some of Ocean's actors worked with Funimation on the script, which is most likely why they were similar. They're even credited on Funimation's ending credits.

Sean didn't say Ocean "stole" their script, he said something along the lines of the Canadians collaborated on the script.

As for that "daizex poster" it seems some people are so insecure that they feel the need to spread malicious rumours about the better dub. Perhaps you can ask this "daizex poster" to jot down the script of an entire episode while it's running, much less around 170 episodes, see how long it takes. Then you can ask this "daizex poster" how it was possible for Ocean to have got ahead of Funi in the dub process if someone was waiting for the Funi dub to air just to nick their scripts. Then you can why Ocean's Kid Buu saga was aired months before Funi's. Then ask him if he knows anything about copyright and the legal consequences of a production company using a competitor's script without permission. Finally, ask him if he realises that this is the daizex website's forum rather than the youtube comment section.

Ocean Group have been professionally dubbing shows before Funi even existed. Such a claim is ridiculous even for a small inexperienced dubbing studio, let alone one as big as the Ocean Group.

I doubt it, after 2000 FUNimation owned the license for English speaking countries. FUNimation is involved in in some way for this to happen.

No they didn't. Funi had the DB license for the USA only. They never had any rights for the English speaking countries of Europe. AB Groupe own the European rights to the Dragon Ball franchise.

Funimation is not involved in the Ocean dub of Kai. Kirby Morrow talked about the "Texas dub." If Funi were behind this, he probably would've mentioned it instead of saying "new company."

It probably doesn't make sense for Funi to contract an Ocean dub if they are doing a dub in Texas. The main reason Funi split with Ocean a decade ago was because they wanted to hire cheaper people to dub the voices for them.

The company behind the Ocean dub of Kai is either AB Groupe, Toei Animation or a new company. Hopefully we'll get confirmation of who it is.

You'd think there'd be a DVD box wouldn't you think? What's to say it won't happen again for ocean kai?

And personally..Every character should literally just be recasted..why not start fresh for once?

[dagame10k]

This is why I'm glad Morrow's getting the boot. He's a great VA, but he was a terrible Goku. If only Funimation had so much sense.

Maybe if you watched back to back episodes of Ocean's entire Buu saga (Great Saiyaman-Kid Buu) you might appreciate Morrow's Goku, if you think he's a good VA.

Kirby is a Good voice actor at times, his Rey Za Burrel(Seed Destiny), Miroku(InuYasha) were good, but his Goku, no, the guy never fit the character, and the casting people knew as much and turned him down for the role recast.

Kirby Morrow said something interesting. He said he worked on Goku for 3 years. That is official refutation of the bullshit "produced in one year" rumour. Kirby joined the dub on episode 145 but Ocean's later dub started at episode 108, so if it took Ocean 3 years to dub DBZ from 145 onwards, then they took more than 3 years for their entire Westwood/Ocean dub run, which is more than the time I estimated.

Kirby I guess is forgetful, he didn't start as Goku in the Westwood dub to begin with, he replaced Kelamis after a good chunk of episodes, the dub wasn't even close to 2 years. Production started Summer 2000, Don Brown said recording ended a few weeks before Christmas, they did it in 2 years 4-5 Months.

personally..Every character should literally just be recasted..why not start fresh for once?

I don't mind the fact the casting director is getting the the original voice actors to re-audition for their original roles, an actor can lose the feel of the character, or another actor may better suit the character. But you don't recast just for the sake of change, that isn't a smart away of going about things, it could end up doing the opposite, and damage the product.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of well casted characters retained their original voice actors(Thats if the actors decided to re-audition). Most of the characters between the FUNI/Ocean dub and the Westwood dub, the casting was for the most part very good, the smaller percentage poorly casted characters, hopefully will be fixed, and maybe we'll get some better recasts of already established characters, who knows? Just have to wait and see.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

No it's not. "Next dimension" is connected with Funimation and Saban, not Ocean. For the first 2 sagas, Ocean were hired for the voice acting. The script and edit decisions were made by Funimation and Saban. It's unfair to place the blame of "next dimension" lines on Ocean. Voice actors are not allowed to change the script as they please, they have to follow what is given to them. I don't connect the next dimension lines with Ocean at all. (I watch the Westwood/Ocean episodes much more than the Saban/Ocean ones)

I never said that it was Ocean studios' fault for the whole "next dimension" thing. I only said that it gets associated with them, because they were the ones who were dubbing the series when that line was being used (when FUNimation started dubbing the series in-house, they stopped with that crap).

[MR.Mark]

As for English Goku, I dunno if I'd say Schemmel is perfect for the role, but his performance in Kai is not bad at all. In fact, I'd say it's pretty good.

Indeed, Kaio aside, He's on par with most of the Funi cast in the Kai dub, pretty good.