Your inside "fanon" things

[Duo]

I've long believed that Broli was intended to be viewed as mentally handicapped.

[SuperSaiyanBatman]

Serious-Fanon:
I like to believe that the reason Goten exists, was because Goku knew he wasn't going to be able to defeat Cell, and would probably die in the process. Therefore, I like to think of it as a touching parting gift to Chi-Chi. Goku doesn't have a sexual drive to speak of, but for this reason, I can imagine him doing that just so she could be happy with him being gone.

Non-Serious Fanon:
After watching Dragon Ball, I thought Goku and Bulma were better than what ended up happening.
What the hell was I thinking?

[Rocketman]

Yamcha sure does have a dick. How do you think he scored with Bulma

Bulma would fuck a rock.

and got so much female attention?

Filler.

[Senzu_Bean]

Goku doesn't have a sexual drive to speak of...

He didn't until the age of 18 or something. Who's to say he doesn't after tasted what is good?

And he was only able to hold off Cell using a technique: the Shin Ki-Kô-Hô

Yeah, but the technique doesn't necessarily borrow power from the air or #18 fear. All that power Tenshinhan put on the Shin Kikoho is HIS power. Unless Krillin can put higher power in a Kienzan or in a Kakusandan than Shin Kikohon's he isn't stronger than Tenshinhan.

[Olympian]

Yamcha sure does have a dick. How do you think he scored with Bulma

Bulma would fuck a rock.

She is like one too.

and got so much female attention?

Filler.

He is just subtle about it, unlike Bulma. All those style changes have to go somewhere. And from his statement in the end of the Cell arc, we know where it is.

I believe that Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan post-Freeza arc because he had his potential drawn out by the Great Elder, which I think keeps him ahead of Tenshinhan until he stops training as hard as he used to and settles down by the Boo arc, whereas Tenshinhan is still training fiercely with Chaozu out in the mountains.

Nothing seems to indicate that before Boo shows up, Tenshinhan was training, for a couple of reasons:

1) He claims they won`t ever see him again, in the end of the Cell arc.

2) Gohan can`t find him for the Budokai. Meaning his Ki couldn`t be traced under normal means without him showing it via training. I`m correct in this consideration, i think.

3) The Budokai starts and Tenshinhan is nowhere to be seen.

4) When everyone starts to feel Boo, and we get to see Ten and Chaotzu for the first time in this arc, they are wearing travelling garbs and are walking in the mountains.

5) We only see them actually training again afterwards, in fighting gear this time.

Also, it's partly because of Yamcha's comment in the Boo arc that Kuririn is the strongest "among humans". The only thing he'd have to base his opinion on is from the last time they all fought, in the Cell Games, since no-one knows where Tenshinhan has been for the last seven years and Yamcha doesn't even know what either of them are doing anyway. Tenshinhan is definitely stronger than Kuririn before the Freeza arc, though.

Yamcha`s point of view is likely meant to be the same of the reader. He won`t count himself because he retired. He won`t count Tenshinhan, because not showing up indicates the probability that Ten wasen`t on active training either. Chaotzu was always the weakest of the four, and if Ten doesn`t train he won`t do it either.

The only one who did any kind of training and decided to participate in the Budokai (despite knowing he wouldn`t win anything) was Kuririn. It`s an easy assumption from Yamcha`s part in my view. Mind you, i don`t believe one bit that any of the four stopped training altogether, they barely looked aged, and it goes against what they are. Simply that no serious training was done (like for example, one would do for the Tourney). At this point none of them really cares, and Kuririn only did because of 18 and her money obsession.

After Ten trained a bit, maybe he got ahead again. Kuririn only trained days before the Dudokai, didn`t he? And i don`t think there was ever a major gap in the main three post Freeza.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yamcha sure does have a dick. How do you think he scored with Bulma

Bulma would fuck a rock.

Lol. If Bulma had been fucking a rock, her business would've been destroyed from all that banging, which would render her unable to be impregnated by Vegeta. And Vegeta wouldn't go anywhere near a vajayjay that had been mashed up that much by a rock...

...and we're getting into dangerous territory.

and got so much female attention?

Filler.

I know Yamcha's female attention was emphasized in filler, but in the manga, Mrs. Brief does mention that Yamcha is popular with the girls, which annoys Bulma, which is why she's always breaking up and getting back together with Yamcha. And Bulma breaks up with Yamcha supposedly because he wasn't faithful, which is what he tells Trunks, when it's most likely that he was just getting female attention (i.e. girls coming up to him, flirting and whatnot), and Bulma got jealous and, being such a paranoid, insecure bitch, dumped him and lied to Trunks that Yamcha cheated on her.

[Senzu_Bean]

The Daizenshuu states Tenshinhan and Chaotzu have been and will continue training forever. They are traveling warriors. They train, travel, train, travel, etc. That is what they do.

The fact that he shows up into the battle field should prove that much. Unless weakling tournaments are tougher than fighting Majin Buu. I don't care if it isn't in the manga. It holds more value than a fucking fan assumption.

[Kaboom]

It holds more value than a fucking fan assumption.

We're lucky it doesn't contradict the "Kuririn's still the strongest human as of the Boo arc" thing, though. Then there might be a problem.

[Senzu_Bean]

It holds more value than a fucking fan assumption.

We're lucky it doesn't contradict the "Kuririn's still the strongest human as of the Boo arc" thing, though. Then there might be a problem.

It doesn't, since Tenshinhan is a hybrid just like Gohan, Goten and Trunks.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I believe that Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan post-Freeza arc because he had his potential drawn out by the Great Elder, which I think keeps him ahead of Tenshinhan until he stops training as hard as he used to and settles down by the Boo arc, whereas Tenshinhan is still training fiercely with Chaozu out in the mountains.

Nothing seems to indicate that before Boo shows up, Tenshinhan was training, for a couple of reasons:

1) He claims they won`t ever see him again, in the end of the Cell arc.

2) Gohan can`t find him for the Budokai. Meaning his Ki couldn`t be traced under normal means without him showing it via training. I`m correct in this consideration, i think.

3) The Budokai starts and Tenshinhan is nowhere to be seen.

4) When everyone starts to feel Boo, and we get to see Ten and Chaotzu for the first time in this arc, they are wearing travelling garbs and are walking in the mountains.

5) We only see them actually training again afterwards, in fighting gear this time.

I disagree with this for a number of reasons:

1) Just because Tenshinhan says he'll never see them again doesn't mean he didn't train. Most of the time, no-one ever saw Tenshinhan and Chaozu, because they were out in the mountains, except when they were fighting against a threat like the Saiyans or the Artificial Humans. Same with Piccolo before he began living at God's Lookout. And after the three years training, it seemed like no-one had seen anyone for 3 years, other than the ones that were training together. Bulma and Kuririn are surprised at how big Gohan's gotten, and Goku says, "What's with the long face, Kuririn? Not happy to see us after all this time?"

2) I believe the Z-Warriors just didn't focus as hard to find them. Tenshinhan and Chaozu can't have been constantly training non-stop. At the beginning of the Saiyan arc, when Bulma reads everyone's battle powers, I think they were all suppressed, since Kuririn and Rôshi had just woken up and weren't fighting. What makes us so sure Tenshinhan and Yamcha weren't suppressed either?

3) Tenshinhan has no reason to enter the 25th Tenka'ichi Budôkai, and since no-one located him, he wouldn't know about Goku coming back. And besides, after the 23rd Tenka'ichi Budôkai, I don't think anyone had motives to enter any tournament. They didn't enter the 24th Budôkai because they were training for the Artificial Humans. No-one entered the 26th and 27th Budôkai apart from Mr. Satan and Mr. Boo. Of the Z-Warriors, only Goku, Vegeta, Goten and Trunks entered because of Oob (and the kids only entered because their fathers forced them to). When they're the strongest in the universe, why bother?

4) Aren't they wearing a similar kind of garb in the Trunks arc? Or were those training clothes? Anyway, the first time I read it, I never took it as travelling gear. And besides, if they were travelling, why would they wear training gear? Like I said, they're not going to be training non-stop. They likely travelled from place to place, stopping at spots to train.

5) And yeah, they are in training gear afterwards, which confirms that they were training. In the story, everything indicates that Kuririn had stopped training. He'd stopped shaving his head after the fighting had stopped, which was a martial arts discipline he'd upheld from his Shaolin monk training since his first appearance. This indicates that he'd stopped training in martial arts together. At the very least, he'd perhaps kept himself in shape and maintained the level of power he had at the Cell Games, but not training fiercely like Tenshinhan.

And besides, what gives Tenshinhan any reason to stop training anyway? He didn't get married and start a family like Kuririn. He wasn't staying in one place like Yamcha and Kuririn. What else are you going to do if you're alone in the mountains? And please, no TenshinhanxChaozu jokes...

The Daizenshuu states Tenshinhan and Chaotzu have been and will continue training forever. They are traveling warriors. They train, travel, train, travel, etc. That is what they do.

The fact that he shows up into the battle field should prove that much. Unless weakling tournaments are tougher than fighting Majin Buu. I don't care if it isn't in the manga. It holds more value than a fucking fan assumption.

I agree. However, I don't agree with this...

It holds more value than a fucking fan assumption.

We're lucky it doesn't contradict the "Kuririn's still the strongest human as of the Boo arc" thing, though. Then there might be a problem.

Why would Kuririn still be so much stronger than Tenshinhan if he hasn't trained for 7 years, while Tenshinhan has? Is he really that much stronger than Tenshinhan with his Great Elder power-up that Tenshinhan can't even catch up to him with 7 years training?

You sound like you think Kuririn's stronger than Tenshinhan in the Boo arc. While the Daizenshuu doesn't contradict Yamcha's statement...it doesn't make his statement right.

[Senzu_Bean]

What makes us so sure Tenshinhan and Yamcha weren't suppressed either?

They cannot suppress themselves at that time. Though they surely are suppressed when Gohan tried to find them.

[Piccolo Daimao]

What makes us so sure Tenshinhan and Yamcha weren't suppressed either?

They cannot suppress themselves at that time. Though they surely are suppressed when Gohan tried to find them.

Isn't there still a difference between an "at rest" battle power and a "fighting" battle power? For example, Vegeta and Nappa were unable to suppress their power, yet they could get much stronger. I understand people have different opinions on whether or not Vegeta can suppress their power, since we've talked about this in another thread, but my opinion is that someone's battle power can still be lower than when they're actually prepared to fight, i.e. when they're at rest, not when they're purposely suppressing their chi.

[Senzu_Bean]

Isn't there still a difference between an "at rest" battle power and a "fighting" battle power?

Yes, an "at rest" battle power doesn't necessarily mean it is under whatever amount its maximum is although it cannot be sensed that great, unless we're talking about someone with a very high battle power.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be hard to find Tenshinhan, Yamcha, etc. when they are only in the hundreds, cause it would be if they aren't fighting. I was merely saying they couldn't yet suppress their battle power at the time.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Isn't there still a difference between an "at rest" battle power and a "fighting" battle power?

Yes, an "at rest" battle power doesn't necessarily mean it is under whatever amount its maximum is although it cannot be sensed that great, unless we're talking about someone with a very high battle power.

I disagree. Why would someone's "at rest" battle power be as high as their maximum? I don't understand what you mean by "It cannot be sensed that great". That sounds like you're explaining suppression, which is a different thing to "at rest".

[Kaboom]

We're lucky it doesn't contradict the "Kuririn's still the strongest human as of the Boo arc" thing, though. Then there might be a problem.

Why would Kuririn still be so much stronger than Tenshinhan if he hasn't trained for 7 years, while Tenshinhan has? Is he really that much stronger than Tenshinhan with his Great Elder power-up that Tenshinhan can't even catch up to him with 7 years training?

I guess so.

People need to remember that the human characters are only that: human. They do not have bodies built for high-scale battle. They do not get Saiyans' healing boosts. They are not specifically birthed for the sole purpose of being the "fighters" of their race. They cannot permanently merge with other members of their race to absorb their power. As such, they are NEVER going to gain power at anywhere close to the crazy-high rate that the Saiyans or Piccolo do.

To speak in numbers for a minute, Kuririn eventually reached up to some 75,000 in just a few short days on Namek thanks to the Great Elder's power-up. While, again, that may not seem like much compared to Gohan or Ginyu or Goku or Vegeta or Freeza, the straight-up nature-defying monsters from that arc, step back and think about that. 75,000. That is an INSANE amount of power for a human. That's after he and the other humans were BARELY in the 1000-2000 range during the Saiyan battle, after doing the absolute best training their planet had to offer.

So now, Tenshinhan gets to stay and train on Kaio's for a few months. For the first chunk he has Yamcha as a training partner (why did I even bother factoring this in?) and then for another while he only has Chaozu before they get wished back. Sparring with others on par with himself is an advantage Goku didn't have (Goku only sparred with Kaio) but still, Ten's only (mostly) human. How fast do you expect him to grow only through training? Even Goku, the martial arts genius who has always been prone to fast power growth because he's a Saiyan, didn't even breech 10,000 on Kaio's. So why would a mere human somehow grow so much miraculously faster?

Considering this, even factoring in Tenshinhan's advantages on Kaio's compared to Goku, I'd be mad-surprised if he even reached 25,000 from his time there. That's barely a third of what Kuririn got pushed up to. And after that, Ten's "stuck" with normal training on Earth, and is going to proceed at the same normal snail's pace as before compared to Kaio's.

Even all the hard training for the Androids, I'd be shocked if he'd reached 35,000. Another 7 years of "casual" training prior to the Boo arc, and by then he's MAYBE past 45,000. Barely over half of the comparatively god-like boost Kuririn received. Add another 15-20 years of training while Kuririn does nothing, and maybe THEN Tenshinhan will finally reclaim the title of "strongest human."

It's not at all illogical to assume that Kuririn still has a sizable lead over the other humans, even by the Boo arc. But one will only realize this when they stop treating humans as if they're Saiyans.

You sound like you think Kuririn's stronger than Tenshinhan in the Boo arc. While the Daizenshuu doesn't contradict Yamcha's statement...it doesn't make his statement right.

I do, because that's all we have to go on and nothing is shown or stated to contradict it. An un-contradicted statement from the manga is far more reliable than "f*cking fan assumptions."

[Piccolo Daimao]

OK, I understand your point. But remember that this is a one-off statement that Yamcha likely didn't think too hard about and is assuming himself. He doesn't know what the fuck Kuririn or Tenshinhan have been doing for the past 7 years. I agree that there is a possibility that Kuririn could still be stronger than Tenshinhan by the Boo arc...but I also think that there is still a possibility that Tenshinhan could be stronger than Kuririn by the Boo arc.

And Goku improved by almost x20 through Kaiô's training. Although Tenshinhan is only Earthling, (I think) he stayed longer than Goku on Kaiô's planet, he apparently had training even tougher than what Goku got (as well as those twists of his own he mentioned) and had sparring partners in the form of Yamcha and Chaozu (and possibly Piccolo for a few days). I think, with all those advantages on Goku's training, it's enough to push him over 35,000 by the Cell arc. If Tenshinhan was, say, 1,850, and Goku got a boost of almost x20, I'd say Tenshinhan's training on Kaiô's planet is enough to give him an increase of around x18 at the least. That would make him close to 35,000, while Kuririn's still 75,000...

Wait a second. I'm trying to use in-depth calculations to determine a character's battle power. That's not how it works in Dragon Ball. Characters get as strong as they need to for the plot to go forward. Heck, the Earthlings went from being in the hundreds to the 1000s in a year of God's training. Not even Goku got a increase that huge, and he was a Saiyan.

You know what? I don't even care anymore. I've had far too many discussions about how the Earthlings' battle powers correlate to each other. And besides, the Earthlings do fuck all in the Cell and Boo arcs other than Tenshinhan's Shin Ki-Ko-Ho.

Damn, you're gonna anger the guys who think the Earthlings were over 100,000 in the Cell arc.

[Olympian]

The Daizenshuu states Tenshinhan and Chaotzu have been and will continue training forever. They are traveling warriors. They train, travel, train, travel, etc. That is what they do.

Meh, every one of the main four are warriors by definition. What is the Daizenshuu supposed to be trying to prove here, the obvious?

The point is whether they cared to train with the motivation we saw them on Budokai or enemies, or not. And in the manga you don`t have that indication for those seven years to any of them, save Kuririn because of 18.

The fact that he shows up into the battle field should prove that much. Unless weakling tournaments are tougher than fighting Majin Buu. I don't care if it isn't in the manga. It holds more value than a fucking fan assumption.

The battle field...after Boo showed up? Well, i mentioned that.

I think I will stick to my fan assumption. But then again, isn't that the point of the thread anyway?

[Piccolo Daimao]

I've long believed that Broli was intended to be viewed as mentally handicapped.

I agree with this. Not the "intended to be viewed" bit (I just think Toei wanted him to be viewed as a crazy, abnormally strong guy, which is what most villains are like), just that he's mentally handicapped. I've always thought he's had some kind of mental condition. I think this is fueled by the fact that he was apparently "tormented" by Goku's crying. Even if you were a baby at the time, you wouldn't suddenly turn crazy because a baby cried a lot, much less try to exact brutal revenge upon that grown-up baby and his friends, if you didn't have something wrong in the brain.

[NUDEoctopus]

After reading Toyble's AF manga, I've started to believe the Namekians don't actually "create" dragons, only call them forth from some higher dimension. I don't know why, but i subconsciencely think, or assume (?) this whenever I see the Dragon. Phuck AF, you're ruining my sense of reality!

[Olympian]

I disagree with this for a number of reasons:

1) Just because Tenshinhan says he'll never see them again doesn't mean he didn't train. Most of the time, no-one ever saw Tenshinhan and Chaozu, because they were out in the mountains, except when they were fighting against a threat like the Saiyans or the Artificial Humans. Same with Piccolo before he began living at God's Lookout. And after the three years training, it seemed like no-one had seen anyone for 3 years, other than the ones that were training together. Bulma and Kuririn are surprised at how big Gohan's gotten, and Goku says, "What's with the long face, Kuririn? Not happy to see us after all this time?"

The statement, a first even for someone used to leave to great lengths of time for training, implies that he doesn`t believe he will be needed again for anything. That right there is the main motivator for crazy ass training. Even in the run of the Android arc, Kuririn, Yamcha and Ten, feel that they can still fight the enemy.

It also suggests that he believes peace will endure this time.

2) I believe the Z-Warriors just didn't focus as hard to find them. Tenshinhan and Chaozu can't have been constantly training non-stop. At the beginning of the Saiyan arc, when Bulma reads everyone's battle powers, I think they were all suppressed, since Kuririn and Rôshi had just woken up and weren't fighting. What makes us so sure Tenshinhan and Yamcha weren't suppressed either?

She had a scouter.

3) Tenshinhan has no reason to enter the 25th Tenka'ichi Budôkai, and since no-one located him, he wouldn't know about Goku coming back. And besides, after the 23rd Tenka'ichi Budôkai, I don't think anyone had motives to enter any tournament. They didn't enter the 24th Budôkai because they were training for the Artificial Humans. No-one entered the 26th and 27th Budôkai apart from Mr. Satan and Mr. Boo. Of the Z-Warriors, only Goku, Vegeta, Goten and Trunks entered because of Oob (and the kids only entered because their fathers forced them to). When they're the strongest in the universe, why bother?

Ok, i give this one to you. Under further examination, without Gokuh and co, the Budokai means shit to them.

4) Aren't they wearing a similar kind of garb in the Trunks arc? Or were those training clothes? Anyway, the first time I read it, I never took it as travelling gear. And besides, if they were travelling, why would they wear training gear? Like I said, they're not going to be training non-stop. They likely travelled from place to place, stopping at spots to train.

They seem to wear gi under the travelling garb when they are in the mountains. But note that i am noy saying they never trained. Only that nothing much suggests that any of them did any kind of focused training in those seven years.

While it`s true the same for Kuririn, he at least had days where he sparred with 18, with her focus being to have him earn a good spot for money, while she cleaned house for the championship. I think at this point it`s what gives him possibly an edge. Kuririn simply seemed to have a better motivation (although a forced one), and a better sparring partner at the time of the Budokai. And this is probably the most important aspect when we compare the humans in the beginning of this arc - at the time that statement of Yamcha was made - who was truly active?

And besides, what gives Tenshinhan any reason to stop training anyway? He didn't get married and start a family like Kuririn. He wasn't staying in one place like Yamcha and Kuririn. What else are you going to do if you're alone in the mountains? And please, no TenshinhanxChaozu jokes...

I am not even going there....

It holds more value than a fucking fan assumption.

We're lucky it doesn't contradict the "Kuririn's still the strongest human as of the Boo arc" thing, though. Then there might be a problem.

Well, he would be the strongest in the beginning of that arc, if we take the active status that we can tell, and Yamcha`s statement (it is also possible he only meant to compare the humans that were in the scene) being the only one of the super four doing any kind of serious training with a focus in mind. Doesn`t mean that Ten couldn`t have surpassed him after he started training seriously again (that we actually see). I don`t view one bit the power release that Kuririn had as something that left any of the others in the dust. They (Ten, Yamcha, Kuririn) all fared similarly against the Cell Jrs.

Chautzu is the weakest but even he could dodge the blasts from Boo, after he and Ten started training again.