VIZ 3-in-1 Editions Coming Summer 2013

[rereboy]

Does this lower quality paper easily rip?

If its just like the one piece 3-in-1s, it will rip easier than the regular edition because its the same kind paper, only thinner. Using it without care will most likely make it rip. I had a naruto 3-in-1 in my hands once and it felt pretty fragile.

If its like the Evangelion 3-in-1s, the paper is not the same and will not rip easier.

[UpFromTheSkies]

(the posts quoted below are from this thread http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 7&start=40)

Yeah... that's... not how intellectual property rights work in the real world...

True, that's not how intellectual property rights work, but it is how business works. A business sees a demand and then supplies it, and in this case the demand is so great that fans have gone through the trouble of creating their own translation.

Their current DB releases have quality translation and hardly any relevant censorship/edits at all. Maybe you should just appreciate what you have access to and its quality instead of losing yourself on the details that don't even matter, especially since most countries don't have a completed domestic release of Dragon Ball at all (manga or anime).

Have you read the original Japanese manga? I don't know Japanese, but I was lucky enough to have a friend who was fluent in Japanese and English, and back in the 90's before there were scanlations or Viz editions, he would type up translations for me while he was reading the manga... so I know what the original dialogue is and Viz butchered it.

[Tullece]

I don't know how we can bitch about the paper quality when the product hasn't even been released. If it is however not as good as other manga than its a necessary sacrifice that I'm willing to make to get it uncut/better translated finally, sense I've been a fan of DB back in 96 and I've always wanted to have the manga complete and up until now I've refused to buy the different viz editions of the manga, hopefully that'll change this time

[VegettoEX]

I don't know how we can bitch about the paper quality when the product hasn't even been released.

We know what the paper quality is like because of other series that have the 3-in-1 format and because Viz told us they are exactly the same.

True, that's not how intellectual property rights work, but it is how business works. A business sees a demand and then supplies it, and in this case the demand is so great that fans have gone through the trouble of creating their own translation.

That's not supply-and-demand. That's entitled children being snotty entitled children.

Were it supply-and-demand, the manga would not be on its (*counts*) fifth version of an English home release from Viz.

Have you read the original Japanese manga? I don't know Japanese, but I was lucky enough to have a friend who was fluent in Japanese and English, and back in the 90's before there were scanlations or Viz editions, he would type up translations for me while he was reading the manga... so I know what the original dialogue is and Viz butchered it.

I'd wager that, no, whatever "fan translations" are floating around out there as illicit scanlations are probably not up-to-snuff. I'd also wager that what you think are correct translations back-in-the-day probably isn't as close as you think it is.

By and large, the Viz translation is perfectly fine. Perfectly. Fine. You want to throw "butchered" around? Let's go back to 1996 with "Haven't you ever heard the story of David and Goliath?" and "Look! I can see their parachutes! They're OK!" and "They blew up the cargo robot!"

Also, Warriors of the Wind.

[UpFromTheSkies]

That's not supply-and-demand. That's entitled children being snotty entitled children.

Were it supply-and-demand, the manga would not be on its (*counts*) fifth version of an English home release from Viz.

It's on its fifth edition because the people buying it either don't know better, or don't care. There is a market for a more accurate, uncensored translation though, and Viz would be smart to take advantage of it.

I'd wager that, no, whatever "fan translations" are floating around out there as illicit scanlations are probably not up-to-snuff.

The one currently being made is actually very good, you should check it out, I'm sure you know where to find it.

I'd also wager that what you think are correct translations back-in-the-day probably isn't as close as you think it is.

I can't be 100% certain because I don't know Japanese, but the person who made them was good enough at translating to have made a career out of it.

The difference between fan translations and Viz is that the fans aren't trying to sell anything, they just want to translate the manga as accurately as possible, while Viz, on the other hand, is trying to sell the manga to an American market, with children being a part of that market, and so they have motivation to Americanize and censor it.

By and large, the Viz translation is perfectly fine. Perfectly. Fine. You want to throw "butchered" around? Let's go back to 1996 with "Haven't you ever heard the story of David and Goliath?" and "Look! I can see their parachutes! They're OK!" and "They blew up the cargo robot!"

Also, Warriors of the Wind.

It could be worse, but any censoring or dialogue changes bothers me to the point that I can't enjoy reading it.

[Adamant]

The one currently being made is actually very good, you should check it out, I'm sure you know where to find it.

This one, you mean?

[Tullece]

Being perfectly fine is ones own opinion, the Dark Horse releases of Berserk are perfectly fine. Viz translations and editing of content in there previous offerings of DB and DBZ is not perfectly fine IMO. I've only every wanted to collect a few manga series, DB/DBZ being one of them and because of Viz's lack of care to the source material its the one manga that I've always wanted but never bought, shitty paper quality aside if its uncut like I hope it is then Ill be a very happy man.

[Duo]

Being perfectly fine is ones own opinion, the Dark Horse releases of Berserk are perfectly fine. Viz translations and editing of content in there previous offerings of DB and DBZ is not perfectly fine IMO. I've only every wanted to collect a few manga series, DB/DBZ being one of them and because of Viz's lack of care to the source material its the one manga that I've always wanted but never bought, shitty paper quality aside if its uncut like I hope it is then Ill be a very happy man.

The Viz translation runs into very few, minor problems through all of Dragon Ball and up through over half of Z. There's no reason to reject the product for that portion of the series. Once they start censoring Mr. Satan, I can understand refusing to purchase any further.

[rereboy]

Have you read the original Japanese manga? I don't know Japanese, but I was lucky enough to have a friend who was fluent in Japanese and English, and back in the 90's before there were scanlations or Viz editions, he would type up translations for me while he was reading the manga... so I know what the original dialogue is and Viz butchered it.

There are almost no instances where Viz doesn't transmit to the reader what the original implied or meant. If you want to see what that is really like, watch the Funimation Dub of the DBZ anime or any other Dub or translation that actually butchers the dialog.

Saying that Viz does it is so much overeating that its not even funny.

It could be worse, but any censoring or dialogue changes bothers me to the point that I can't enjoy reading it.

Then you are in for a world of hurt. Nothing is ever perfect. And make no mistake, your complaints are of one who is expecting perfection, not of one who expects a good quality product.

[rereboy]

Once they start censoring Mr. Satan, I can understand refusing to purchase any further.

You do? They alter a character's name to another one that still fits and the rest of the release is pretty good, but it doesn't matter... All those volumes and their quality is ruined and doesn't deserve to be bought because the character's name is not the original?

See, to me that doesn't make sense at all. Sure, I'd rather have the original name, but why is that so important? The pun or joke of his name is lost in the translation but besides that and besides the compulsive urge to have the original what does it matter? Just imagine that you didn't know that the character's name was not the original. What did you lose? How did the product suffer? The pun of his name was lost. Period. There are no more practical consequences whatsoever.

As long as the release is a good one, I'd rather be thankful for having a quality release of a manga that I love in my own country and in my own language than stressing about details that at the end of the day don't even matter. Most countries don't even have a DB release after all.

[UpFromTheSkies]

If I recognize changes that are made, it makes me wonder what else is changed that I don't recognize, and then I can't enjoy reading it. I want it to be as close to the original as possible.

[UpFromTheSkies]

It would be more tolerable if they had reference notes in the back of each volume explaining changes that are made and why they made them. If you're going to change things, at least be honest about it.

[rereboy]

There have been various fans with deep knowledge in Japanese and in English who have gone through Viz's translation extensively, like Herms of this forum. They basically say what I stated: there are almost no instances where Viz doesn't transmit to the reader what the original implied or meant and its a good translation. That should be more than enough to make you comfortable.

As for the rest, like I tried to demonstrate in my last post, that is not a problem with the product itself.

The only problem with Mr. Satan's name, for example, that actually exists within the product itself, is the loss of the pun/joke of his name. Anything else is purely on the reader. Its the reader that lets himself be bothered by the change itself. Its the reader's compulsion to have every last detail perfectly reproduced that bothers the reader, not anything else.

I agree that having the original name or footnotes would be better but their loss doesn't make the Viz's translation bad or their product not worth it and its only the reader that chooses to make a big deal out of such unimportant details. Personally, as a reader of Viz's DB volumes, what you complain about doesn't really bother me because all of its qualities more than make up for that. And to me that is the only reasonable point of view.

[Tullece]

I don't have a problem if they re-word things or translate it slightly differently, it's name changes and censorship that are my biggest issue. They release it completely uncensored with correct names then ill be happy until then its HAO scans, if viz really wants my money than they will release it properly. I had the same philosphy when it came to funimation and dragon ball, they didn't get any of my money till they released the dragon box's and where not charging 25 dollars for 3 episodes and incorrect episode numbers. I will not double dip on anything, sure I could afford to go buy all 43 volumes of there release to finally own it, but sure as shit when I'm done collecting it they would release a completely new uncut version! No thanks ill wait till they do it proper.

[AgitoZ]

It's not that the introduction of Mr. Satan's changed name ruins the Viz translation, it's that when he is introduced the translation just takes a weird and unnecessary turn. Tons of names are changed, the dialogue is softened heavily, etc. At least with earlier volumes you could find print that weren't as heavily censored, but that's when the G-rated translation is your only option.

The odd changes stick out more when everything else about the VIz release is just fine. It's not a bad release, but it's certainly one where I won't just blindly recommend it to someone. It could be heavily improved.

[rereboy]

It's not that the introduction of Mr. Satan's changed name ruins the Viz translation, it's that when he is introduced the translation just takes a weird and unnecessary turn. Tons of names are changed, the dialogue is softened heavily, etc. At least with earlier volumes you could find print that weren't as heavily censored, but that's when the G-rated translation is your only option.

The odd changes stick out more when everything else about the VIz release is just fine. It's not a bad release, but it's certainly one where I won't just blindly recommend it to someone. It could be heavily improved.

Tons of names are changed? Like what? Mr. Satan and Vegetto? Those are the only ones which were really changed, and in Vegetto's case it was a matter of coherence. Everything else were pretty much acceptable translations and adaptions. Or are you saying that Boo instead of Buu is wrong? Or Djin instead of Majin? Because those are pretty clear examples of correct and acceptable translations and adaptions. I fail to see where "tons of names" are changed. If it reaches a handful of names changes I'd be surprised, assuming that Mr. Satan and Vegetto are not the only ones.

Also, softened heavily? Like "sent to another dimension" instead of "dying" like in the american Dub? Now that's heavily softened dialog, even incorrect. That never happens with Viz. There are a few mistakes but almost always what is implied and meant in the original is what is stated in the translation. Its common for it to not be an carbon copy and literal translation of the original but I fail to see why it should as long as it conveys the reader what is implied and meant, and that almost always happens.

So... Heavily improved? How? By reverting the few cases where the original names aren't used and using a few more literal translations in same cases and correcting the few mistakes that exist? Is this what is called "heavily"? Those are details that could be improved but "heavily"? Herms rated Viz's translation as a 7 out of 10, 9 being pretty much the maximum possible classification in a official product (which he gives to the subtitles of the dvd release). I think that is a correct rating and those things I mentioned are pretty much all that separate the 7 of the 9. But, by your standards, Viz's translation should be a 5 (still positive, but simply "not bad", just like you stated) and Funimation's dub translation would be a -5 (since its so much worse that Viz's).

The way I see it, there's simply way too much exaggeration and overreaction when criticizing Viz's releases.

[UpFromTheSkies]

Has Viz released more than one translation? Because in the one I had, which I got rid of, Viz Americanized a lot of the dialogue which really annoyed me, and they also censored a bunch of Toriyama's visual gags.

[rereboy]

Has Viz released more than one translation? Because in the one I had, which I got rid of, Viz Americanized a lot of the dialogue which really annoyed me, and they also censored a bunch of Toriyama's visual gags.

Visual gags like Bulma's tits? Because that's the sort of things they censor. Here's a list of what they visually censor currently:

- explicit female nudity (they put a well drawn bra on the character or bath bubbles covering the strategic places and stuff like that, which still makes the scene work in its entirely, the reader doesn't get to see explicit female nudity, but all the sexual intent is still there and all of the characters reactions still make perfect sense, as does the situation; there's never a case where the censorship of nudity interfered with the logic of the scene);
- characters flipping the bird (they put the characters raising a fist or extending another finger instead; this is one of the cases where it does affect the scene unfortunately);
- Mr. Popo's lips (to prevent complains on racial profiling; his lips aren't important to anything so it doesn't affect anything at all);
- #17 killing a old man with a gun in the future (made it look like he killed him with his bare hand; shouldn't affect the scene but it makes the scene look a little weird, so it ends up affecting it);
- and a few thugs' weapons in the Buu saga are made to look less realistic and more laser-like (concerns with real weapons since those weapons are used to shoot Mr. Satan; doesn't affect anything in the slightest).

Those are all the visual edits currently in Viz (at least with the Vizbigs). In 42 volumes of manga and so many pages of it only that was edited and only a few cases of that actually affect the scene (flipping the bird and that situation with #17). I don't know to which gags you are referring but these are all of the edits.

As for the translation itself, there have been a few modifications but it has been mostly the same. They don't americanize the dialog nearly as much as you make it sound, really. They do it a little, its true, but it can't be compared to the dub or other stuff out there. Its simply not a literal translation, its a translation and a adaption, as it should be. It could be a little more literal and less adapted, its true, it would be better, but its still good and like I said, what it matters is that it conveys what was meant and implied.

[Super Sayian Prime]

14:15:19 <bay|SC|Viz> 3 in 1 program
14:15:25 <bay|SC|Viz> shonen 3-in-1s
14:15:30 <bay|SC|Viz> $14.99 US/16.99 can
[..]
14:16:33 <bay|SC|Viz> different from viz big
14:16:40 <bay|SC|Viz> 50% savings
14:16:43 <bay|SC|Viz> same trim as regular manga
14:16:46 <bay|SC|Viz> takes up less space
[...]
14:17:33 <bay|SC|Viz> dragon ball, 6/4/13, every 3 months
14:17:57 <bay|SC|Viz> (same price points as before)
14:18:20 <bay|SC|Viz> what separates this one, is that the entire run will be dragonball
14:18:29 <bay|SC|Viz> it will not be split into dragonball and dragonball z
14:18:34 <bay|SC|Viz> the 3-in-1 will be uncensored
http://bayoab.info/live/old.php?panel=266

Dragon Ball will also be featured in Viz's free comics day celebrations.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

14:15:19 <bay|SC|Viz> 3 in 1 program
14:15:25 <bay|SC|Viz> shonen 3-in-1s
14:15:30 <bay|SC|Viz> $14.99 US/16.99 can
[..]
14:16:33 <bay|SC|Viz> different from viz big
14:16:40 <bay|SC|Viz> 50% savings
14:16:43 <bay|SC|Viz> same trim as regular manga
14:16:46 <bay|SC|Viz> takes up less space
[...]
14:17:33 <bay|SC|Viz> dragon ball, 6/4/13, every 3 months
14:17:57 <bay|SC|Viz> (same price points as before)
14:18:20 <bay|SC|Viz> what separates this one, is that the entire run will be dragonball
14:18:29 <bay|SC|Viz> it will not be split into dragonball and dragonball z
14:18:34 <bay|SC|Viz> the 3-in-1 will be uncensored
http://bayoab.info/live/live2.php?panel=0

Dragon Ball will also be featured in Viz's free comics day celebrations.

.....FUCK YOU VIZ! I'll get the wallet...