Is Master Roshi's moon-busting feat an outlier?

[Mjb1985]

I wouldn't go by those numbers. That is just the absolute minimum I would put. I'd probably have Buff Roshi ( 22nd ) getting up to perhaps 50% Piccolo Daimao's power. Young Roshi maybe 50% of Piccolo Daimao young.

I look at Roshi's buff power the same as I do as Grade 3. Tons of power, useless in combat. Roshi may hit the lotto and actually cause a scratch on PD, but then all of his energy would be wasted and it would just be a useless situation. The power is only useful for blowing up mountains and moons and such.

But yea, even 21st Budokai Buff Roshi can be pretty damn strong in my interpretation. I haven't really played around with a lot of numbers regarding that, which I plan to eventually , but just going off of my rough estimates, I'd probably place 21st Budokai Buff Roshi possibly even stronger than his 22nd Budokai self.

So I guess I would say a power a good deal superior to Tao Pai Pai having the capability of blowing up a moon or so sounds about right. Heck, it may be a lot stronger than even that.

[Kamiccolo9]

Somewhat unrelated, but here's a fun little quote I found.
Chapter: 150, P7.2, P8.2-3

Context: after Piccolo attacks the city
King: “A-ah! The c-city, the city’s…been wiped out..!”
Piccolo: “Do you understand? If I felt like it, it wouldn’t be any trouble for me to destroy the entire world…If you still don’t believe me, I could just turn all the scenery you can see from here into wasteland.”

Nothing really contradicts Piccolo being able to destroy the planet.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I've noticed that to. Good pick up of bringing it up. He may not be talking about planet busting, but he surely is way more capable of mere city busting. Perhaps destroying the world in terms of human ability makes sense. As in if every nuclear bomb detonated at the same time it probably wouldn't explode Earth, but it would most definitely wipe out 99% of all living things. That seems possible and is even suggested.

[Rocketman]

As in if every nuclear bomb detonated at the same time it probably wouldn't explode Earth

The asteroid impact that killed off the dinosaurs released over ten thousand times more energy than all the nuclear weapons ever made put together. Earth was unaffected.

[Saiga]

Tenshinhan doesn't have to be superior to Piccolo Daimao. Official numbers say otherwise.

[Mjb1985]

PD said he could make the earth a wasteland. Not bust the planet. So an asteroid level attack could work here.

I disagree with the official numbers used for Piccolo Daimao and Tenshinhan.

Tenshinhan said that Goku had become stronger than he was before ( vs Piccolo ) it's just his speed didn't change. Tenshinhan matched Goku's strength and was faster than Goku. So I think...

Tenshinhan 120
Goku's Strength 120
Goku's Speed 100
Goku ( Vs PD ) 100
Piccolo Daimao 98

I'd probably go with something like that.

I think Tenshinhan could have a relatively easy time dispatching Piccolo Daimao personally. I know the official numbers disagree with that and I don't have a problem with anyone who views it that way, I just don't see it that way. I see it as a matter of power statement vs official number, you can lean on any side you want.

[Draken]

PD said he could make the earth a wasteland. Not bust the planet. So an asteroid level attack could work here.

I disagree with the official numbers used for Piccolo Daimao and Tenshinhan.

Tenshinhan said that Goku had become stronger than he was before ( vs Piccolo ) it's just his speed didn't change. Tenshinhan matched Goku's strength and was faster than Goku. So I think...

Tenshinhan 120
Goku's Strength 120
Goku's Speed 100
Goku ( Vs PD ) 100
Piccolo Daimao 98

I'd probably go with something like that.

I think Tenshinhan could have a relatively easy time dispatching Piccolo Daimao personally. I know the official numbers disagree with that and I don't have a problem with anyone who views it that way, I just don't see it that way. I see it as a matter of power statement vs official number, you can lean on any side you want.

Goku wasn't going all out until fighting Piccolo, I don't think you can say Tien matched Goku's power and was faster... Unless you think Tien was stronger than Goku and would have had an easier time beating Piccolo. While the whole point of that tournament was to show the battle between Piccolo and Goku and how much stronger than everyone else they were. You have Goku training 3 years with Kami gaining less than Tien training solo.

[Mjb1985]

My apologies. I meant Weighted Goku. Weighted Goku = Goku who beat PD except he is stronger. Same speed. Goku's full power should be able to finger flick Tenshinhan. Even a 1,000 Tenshinhan's can't beat 1 FP Goku.

[Saiga]

Except Tenshinhan can't sense ki at this stage, so his statement does not hold much weight. He doesn't have a good way of comparing them.

[Mjb1985]

Nothing contradicts Tenshinhan's statement. Piccolo Daimao's power level is very low level at this stage of the game, due to the progressive nature of the story it seems to match up with the rest of the manga.

Dragonballs Saga - Cast is way below Roshi
21st Budokai - Cast has caught up to Roshi
22nd Budokai - Cast has caught up to Goku's Post Korin Training Power
23rd Budokai - Cast has caught up to Piccolo Daimao
Vegeta Saga - Cast has caught up to Raditz

If the humans can catch up to Raditz, surely catching up to Piccolo Daimao shouldn't be out of there reach imo.

[Draken]

Nothing contradicts Tenshinhan's statement. Piccolo Daimao's power level is very low level at this stage of the game, due to the progressive nature of the story it seems to match up with the rest of the manga.

Dragonballs Saga - Cast is way below Roshi
21st Budokai - Cast has caught up to Roshi
22nd Budokai - Cast has caught up to Goku's Post Karin Training Power
23rd Budokai - Cast has caught up to Piccolo Daimao
Vegeta Saga - Cast has caught up to Raditz

If the humans can catch up to Raditz, surely catching up to Piccolo Daimao shouldn't be out of there reach imo.

That was with an intensive year of God training though, with Piccolo they were training for fun on their own.

[Saiga]

That list is totally false... Goku was the only one who had caught up to Roshi, and Chaozu and Gohan didn't catch up to Raditz, etc...

[Draken]

That list is totally false... Goku was the only one who had caught up to Roshi, and Chaozu and Gohan didn't catch up to Raditz, etc...

Gohan did when he gets mad and actually fights, and wow 2 slight mistakes that are arguable by your definition of caught up, the list is now completely null and void.

[Mjb1985]

By caught up I mean in the general realm of power. Not worlds apart.

[Saiga]

Chaozu was less than half of Raditz. So if he counts, I guess Tenshinhan can be less than half of Daimao and he still "caught up".

@Draken Well, yeah. It can't be a pattern if it isn't followed.

[Mjb1985]

I'm going to disagree with that strongly. Based on the 23rd Budokai and the statements in it, I just can't see how Piccolo Daimao could ever be superior to that version of Tenshinhan. I don't think the author would have Tenshinhan make blatant false assumptions on strength. That doesn't make sense to me.

[Saiga]

I'm going to disagree with that strongly. Based on the 23rd Budokai and the statements in it, I just can't see how Piccolo Daimao could ever be superior to that version of Tenshinhan. I don't think the author would have Tenshinhan make blatant false assumptions on strength. That doesn't make sense to me.

Tenshinhan's statements ended up being wrong anyway since Goku was only weighted, so he did have Tenshinhan make blatant false assumptions on strength :3

[Mjb1985]

Tenshinhan was talking about Weighted Goku for those comments though. He made other comments about unweighted Goku.

Here is the chain I feel is suggested at the 23rd Budokai

Goku ( Unweighted FP ) >= Piccolo Junior > Kami > Shen > Tenshinhan's Expectations About Unweighted Goku's True Ability > Goku ( Unweighted, Suppressed Vs Tenshinhan ) > Tenshinhan = Goku ( Weighted Power ) > Goku ( Weighted Speed ) = Goku ( vs Pd ) >= PD > Kuririn >= Yamcha


So I'm under the impression Kuririn and Yamcha are pretty close to PD, Tenshinhan superior to PD, Kami, Goku and Piccolo all able to finger flick the humans and PD with ease at their full power.

In terms of power, I feel this saga resembles the wide gaps in power shown in the Freeza Saga than anything. The 23rd Budokai has some seriously large gaps if going strictly by power statements. Imo of course.

[Saiga]

I know Ten was speaking about weighted Goku, but the statement itself was still wrong because of Goku's weights. That's why I wouldn't put too much stock into the quote, it was intended to be false.

[Mjb1985]

I don't view it that way. Tenshinhan's comments were regarding Goku's Weighted Power and Speed. When the weights came off, Tenshinhan made new comments on Goku's unweighted ability.

I think the clear difference was made.