Battle Of Gods Base Goku Is Weaker Than Frieza?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The fact that Androids Saga Piccolo should be far stronger than SSjin Trunks when he beat Freeza

Not only it's not a fact, but also, what does this have to do with base Saiyans & Freeza?

Imperfect Cell was several times stronger than Kamiccolo based on how he tanked Piccolo's Light Grenade prove it

We can tell that he is much stronger, but we can't tell how much stronger. He could have been less than 2 times stronger than Piccolo.

The Boo Arc also shows how Kaioshin is impressed at the Base Saiyans but said he can one shit Freeza

Gohan & Vegeta were very impressed by Goten's & Trunks' power respectively... does that make Goten & Trunks stronger than Gohan & Vegeta? Kaioshin was impressed because he didn't expect mortals on Earth to be so powerful.

no way in hell that Kaioshin can one shot the Base Saiyans when he is much weaker than the rest of the Kaioshins who are much weaker than SSjin Gohan

He is said to be the weakest, not much weaker. It could easily have been SS Gohan > South Kaioshin > Dai Kaioshin > West Kaioshin > North Kaioshin > East Kaioshin > Piccolo >>> Base Gohan. There is a x50 difference between base & Super Saiyan, and that's a monstrous difference. And since Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo, he can easily one shot the base Saiyans.

[Kakashi]

Again, you're pulling numbers from a hat . I just take into account that Piccolo was fatigued. I also run on a decreased attack multiplier theory. As there strength got absurdly high, they couldn't amplify there already absurd amount of energy as much.
Imperfect Cell: 500,000,000
Piccolo: 360,000,000
-Fatigued: 300,000,000
---Light Grenade: 450,000,000
Impossible for them to be weaker than Freeza? I don't know, I made it work:

Spoiler:

Defiance in the Face of Despair!!
Adult Gohan: 3,400,000
Kid Trunks: 72,000
SSJ Kid Trunks: 3,600,000
SSJ Adult Gohan: 170,000,000
Cyborg #17: 330,000,000
Cyborg #18: 320,000,000
Trunks: 2,800,000
SSJ Trunks: 140,000,000

The Artificial Humans Appear
Goku: 5,400,000
Gohan: 3,200,000
Krillin: 230,000
Tenshinhan: 180,000
Yamcha: 90,000
Cyborg #19: 30,000,000
Cyborg #20: 60,000,000
SSJ Goku(Heart Virus): 270,000,000-
Cyborg #19(Energy Absorbed): 180,000,000
Vegeta: 5,600,000
SSJ Vegeta: 280,000,000
SSJ Vegeta(Energy Taken): 240,000,000
Cyborg #19(More Energy Absorbed): 220,000,000
-Big Bang Attack: 300,000,000
Cyborg #20(Energy Absorbed): 140,000,000
Piccolo: 180,000,000
Trunks: 5,100,000
SSJ Trunks: 255,000,000
Cyborg #17: 360,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Kami: 220
Piccolo(Fused W/ Kami): 360,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 320,000,000

The Room of Spirit and Time
Cyborg #17: 360,000,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Piccolo: 360,000,000
Piccolo(Tired): 300,000,000
-Light Grenade: 450,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 500,000,000
Cyborg #16: 500,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell(Suppressed): 680,000,000
Vegeta: 14,400,000
SSJ Vegeta: 720,000,000
SSJG2 Vegeta: 1,080,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell: 860,000,000
Trunks: 14,200,000
SSJ Trunks: 710,000,000
SSJG2 Trunks: 1,065,000,000
-Final Flash: 2,160,000,000
SSJG3 Trunks: 1,420,000,000
Perfect Cell(Suppressed): 1,210,000,000
Buff Perfect Cell(Suppressed): 1,815,000,000
RESSJ Goku: 496,000,000
RESSJ Gohan: 596,000,000
FPSSJ Goku(Half): 1,240,000,000

The Cell Games
Vegeta: 36,000,000
Cyborg #16: 500,000,000
Trunks: 34,000,000
Piccolo: 900,000,000
Krillin: 250,000
Tenshinhan: 200,000
Yamcha: 100,000
Mr Satan: 12
RESSJ Goku: 500,000,000
RESSJ Gohan: 600,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 2,500,000,000
Perfect Cell(Suppressed Against Goku): 2,600,000,000
-Shunkan Idou Kamehameha: 3,000,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 3,000,000,000
Perfect Cell(Suppressed Against Gohan): 3,200,000,000
Cell Jr: 2,000,000,000
FPSSJ Vegeta: 1,800,000,000
FPSSJ Trunks: 1,700,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 7,500,000,000
Perfect Cell: 4,500,000,000
Perfect Cell(Injured): 3,000,000,000
Buff Perfect Cell: 7,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 7,500,000,000
-Solar Kamehameha: 9,000,000,000
-Father-Son Kamehameha: 9,600,000,000

Your levels make no sense. Piccolo called Cell's Kamehameha weak because it was like Saiyan Saga Goku's Kamehameha implying the amplification had greatly increased since then. Light Grenade should be more amplified than the Makankosappo which was 3.25X in the Saiyan Arc. You have Cell barely stronger than the Light Grenade when Android 16 said Cell hardly took any damage. Imperfect Cell >> Light Grenade >>> Kamiccolo

You have Kamiccolo too low, Sick SSjin Goku is much weaker than Andfroids Saga Piccolo who is weaker than SSjin Goku's max and SSjin Vegeta. Android 18 tanked a punch from Vegeta to the guts which suggests a big gap IMO like 1.5X. There is also the fact that Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town) was stronger than SSjin Vegeta and he got his ass kicked by Wweighted Kamiccolo who is barely as strong as Android 18

No way Base Saiyans < Frieza

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

That’s my point, Piccolo’s true power would reveal itself the moment he began fighting, but no one comments on it then. The compliments on his strength came as result of witnessing him manhandle a guy perceived to possess the power to eradicate them.

It is commented on. Krillin comments on it, and Tien eventually mentions how he "hates" seeing Vegeta and Piccolo so powerful. Before merging with Kami, Piccolo hardly ever had a noticeable power-up to demonstrate his power before fighting, if at all. Piccolo normally takes off his weights and shows his true power through fighting. You're making it seem as if everything they say about Piccolo is only derived from watching the battle, as if they can't feel how powerful Piccolo is as the battle's taking place.

So he’s portrayed as being strong relative to the situation at hand. Trunks’ response to detecting Piccolo’s power from afar is particularly meaningful in this discussion because if you’re arguing that he should have strength rivaling SSj Goku & Freeza at the time, that’s a really big deal.

But why is it necessary for Trunks to make note of a power that's already inferior to his own? Super Saiyan Goku and Freeza were from yrs before--and since Piccolo has no transformations or fusions during the 3 yrs of training, the only difference would be is that his Chi is much bigger than before. Not to mention Trunks never specifies--just mentions "Battle Chi" and that a battle is taking place, yet we can't forget Vegeta was still powered-up in Super Saiyan during the battle. So in a sense, the structure (IE Super Saiyan, Super Namek, Super Boo, Ultimate Gohan) of his Chi had no reason to change in that way; it simply increased a huge amount.

Yet the story is not placing weight on his power to emphasize that through some qualifier pertained to someone actually sensing his ki, as one would expect when holding such significance

The story indeed places weight on Krillin's statement. He's sensed at least half of Freeza's power and 3 Super Saiyans, and wonders how or what training someone who's not a Super Saiyan did to grow so powerful. Sure, it was impossible to compare the Androids to anyone of any significance, but not too long before, Krillin saw an underwhelming effort by Super Saiyan Goku. Not the best, but it's a measuring stick of some sort. The humans were completely unaware of Goku's condition during the battle, so as far as they were concerned, Goku was looking as incredible as ever against the Android. The same humans didn't hesitate to make note of how powerful Piccolo was, either. The humans sensed Super Saiyan Goku just as much as they sensed Piccolo, and both were fighting against enemies with no Chi.

Chapter: 362 (DBZ 168), P2.1-2
Trunks: “I feel another stupendous ki…! There’s someone else!! Someone else I don’t know!!”
Kuririn: “It’s Piccolo!!!”
Note: so in other words, Trunks considers both Cell and Piccolo’s ki as ‘stupendous’.

Here's the difference:
1) Piccolo's power changed drastically from what it was just a little while ago
2) Like Cell, he didn't understand who the Chi belonged to
3) Both were the most powerful Chi's on the planet at the time

So I don’t find the plot readily supports him being that strong. Clearly he powered up, but by that much?

He's powerful enough to beat on a more powerful #20 than Super Saiyan Goku can to a weaker #19. Goku was weaker than he should've been, but still considered incredible by those who never had a chance to see what he was really capable of during those 3 yrs of training. The same guys saw how powerful Goku was when he was able to stop Trunks's sword with his finger. That has to count for something.

Besides, #20 mentioned that Goku was in a position to defeat #19 if the latter never found an opportunity to absorb his energy, so Goku was still quite formidable in his own right, I believe. I don't see Freeza doing any better than #19 against this Goku, but it's very likely that #19's "armor" is the reason why he's able to take most of Goku's attacks.

It’s completely unnecessary.

Okay. So how about you tell me a necessary placement for Piccolo's power after training with a Super Saiyan for 3 yrs?

Kami’s power probably does not even crack 500, the power-up is viewed no less outrageous if Piccolo had reached Freeza’s 3rd or 4th form. Which is far more realistic given the previous fruits of his training; let him first break two million before even considering tens of millions, a hundred million… that thought comes off as far more outrageous in my opinion. Especially where one case demands his power to be transparently strong to serve the plot and the other does not.

The merging with Kami was the halves becoming whole again. Kami's power wasn't a (Kami even says this himself) factor in the assimilation.

There's no telling how strong Piccolo even is before the training. Vegeta's often accepted to be stronger than 3rd form Freeza, and we're told that Piccolo continued to train fiercely within a yrs time before Freeza arrives. The first thing Goku does is consider the possibility of Vegeta and Piccolo defeating Freeza. This could mean anything, but I think it sorta puts Piccolo on-par with Vegeta...or at the very least, not much weaker than him. Piccolo's previous fruits of training never included sparring with someone significantly more powerful than himself. If anything, this would probably be the most difficult training Piccolo's ever had, so it gives reason to a huge power-up.

The plot demanded that Piccolo was stronger than the Super Saiyans after assimilation, but his power after training with Goku is still up to the reader, I believe. If he's stronger than Freeza and the Super Saiyans of the past, this in no way effects the current hierarchy of things by the Android saga. The Super Saiyans would still continue to be superior to him. Being "stronger than a Super Saiyan" can mean a plethora of things in itself, anyway, since we know there's nothing specific about a Super Saiyan at this point other than appearance.

[TheMightyOzaru]

It's multiplier would adjust with Cell's power. I just assume it increased his power by 10,000,000. My levels don't contradict anything so I don't see how they don't make sense . I didn't just pull numbers out of a hat and said these are the way the have to be like you're doing. That alone takes away from your credibility. No levels are mentioned past the Freeza arc, so everything is fair game. If you wanna believe the Cyborg arc SSJs are in the 300 millions, and Piccolo is 700 million, more power to ya, but don't think for one second they're fact. It makes you look incredibly pretentious. Here's some food for thought for you though. If The Kamehameha back in the Saiyajin arc increased Goku's BP by 2.22 times, how did Cell keep up with Piccolo if he was more than 2.22 times weaker? If you go back through the manga, you would notice that Cell is able to keep up with Piccolo. I don't see how Cell is supposed to keep up when he's packing only 316,000,000 according to your logic.

[hleV]

Personally I'm willing to take certain statements/implications with a grain of salt in order to reduce Piccolo's (and in turn, the initial androids') power.

[Son_Gohan]

It is commented on. Krillin comments on it, and Tenshinhan eventually mentions how he "hates" seeing Vegeta and Piccolo so powerful. Before merging with Kami, Piccolo hardly ever had a noticeable power-up to demonstrate his power before fighting, if at all. Piccolo normally takes off his weights and shows his true power through fighting. You're making it seem as if everything they say about Piccolo is only derived from watching the battle, as if they can't feel how powerful Piccolo is as the battle's taking place.

But why is it necessary for Trunks to make note of a power that's already inferior to his own? Super Saiyan Goku and Freeza were from yrs before--and since Piccolo has no transformations or fusions during the 3 yrs of training, the only difference would be is that his Chi is much bigger than before. Not to mention Trunks never specifies--just mentions "Battle Chi" and that a battle is taking place, yet we can't forget Vegeta was still powered-up in Super Saiyan during the battle. So in a sense, the structure (IE Super Saiyan, Super Namek, Super Boo, Ultimate Gohan) of his Chi had no reason to change in that way; it simply increased a huge amount.

The story indeed places weight on Krillin's statement. He's sensed at least half of Freeza's power and 3 Super Saiyans, and wonders how or what training someone who's not a Super Saiyan did to grow so powerful. Sure, it was impossible to compare the Androids to anyone of any significance, but not too long before, Krillin saw an underwhelming effort by Super Saiyan Goku. Not the best, but it's a measuring stick of some sort. The humans were completely unaware of Goku's condition during the battle, so as far as they were concerned, Goku was looking as incredible as ever against the Android. The same humans didn't hesitate to make note of how powerful Piccolo was, either. The humans sensed Super Saiyan Goku just as much as they sensed Piccolo, and both were fighting against enemies with no Chi.

Here's the difference:
1) Piccolo's power changed drastically from what it was just a little while ago
2) Like Cell, he didn't understand who the Chi belonged to
3) Both were the most powerful Chi's on the planet at the time

He's powerful enough to beat on a more powerful #20 than Super Saiyan Goku can to a weaker #19. Goku was weaker than he should've been, but still considered incredible by those who never had a chance to see what he was really capable of during those 3 yrs of training. The same guys saw how powerful Goku was when he was able to stop Trunks's sword with his finger. That has to count for something.

Besides, #20 mentioned that Goku was in a position to defeat #19 if the latter never found an opportunity to absorb his energy, so Goku was still quite formidable in his own right, I believe. I don't see Freeza doing any better than #19 against this Goku, but it's very likely that #19's "armor" is the reason why he's able to take most of Goku's attacks.

Okay. So how about you tell me a necessary placement for Piccolo's power after training with a Super Saiyan for 3 yrs?

The merging with Kami was the halves becoming whole again. Kami's power wasn't a (Kami even says this himself) factor in the assimilation.

There's no telling how strong Piccolo even is before the training. Vegeta's often accepted to be stronger than 3rd form Freeza, and we're told that Piccolo continued to train fiercely within a yrs time before Freeza arrives. The first thing Goku does is consider the possibility of Vegeta and Piccolo defeating Freeza. This could mean anything, but I think it sorta puts Piccolo on-par with Vegeta...or at the very least, not much weaker than him. Piccolo's previous fruits of training never included sparring with someone significantly more powerful than himself. If anything, this would probably be the most difficult training Piccolo's ever had, so it gives reason to a huge power-up.

The plot demanded that Piccolo was stronger than the Super Saiyans after assimilation, but his power after training with Goku is still up to the reader, I believe. If he's stronger than Freeza and the Super Saiyans of the past, this in no way effects the current hierarchy of things by the Android saga. The Super Saiyans would still continue to be superior to him. Being "stronger than a Super Saiyan" can mean a plethora of things in itself, anyway, since we know there's nothing specific about a Super Saiyan at this point other than appearance.

It takes 4 pages of Piccolo fighting against him until anyone makes mention of his strength. If their statements were truly being based on the Ki that was being given off by him and not from what actions were being observed, it would have been brought up from the very start. But their focus was clearly on what they were seeing. Unlike with Goku who was expected to be the only one capable of defeating them, Piccolo dominating #20 appeared as a big shock, keeping them captivated until Krillin points out only a Super Saiyan should be able to do that.

On the contrary, the story does not lead the reader to accept these statements at face value. Through reading it from its complete narrative context as was originally intended, the whole situation is unraveled to be a delusion: with Trunks suddenly reappearing with discrepant tidings and Piccolo giving the proposition of them having gotten too strong or they being the ones that didn’t live up to the hype. The latter subsequently proves to be the case; the real Androids turned out as overwhelmingly superior. Once again the plot does not support Piccolo becoming too strong, it actually contradicts it. The initial Androids never had to be that powerful, Piccolo could’ve already been stronger than #20 even without those 3 years of training.

Trunks is merely the instrument used to convey it; the story does not put stress on the idea of Piccolo having a surprisingly powerful Ki because that’s not really what it’s trying to impart. Cell was self-admittedly above Piccolo’s level when he remarks on it from afar, yet it still warrants merit because it holds true to the events as they are. The circumstances surrounding #19 & #20 were shrouded in a cloud of doubt that the reader is not left to soundly trust.

The idea of Piccolo becoming as strong as SSj Goku on Namek is only founded upon uncertainties. It’s never explicated how powerful he got at Kaio’s, that he’d be able to make such gains without relying on assimilation, or that sparring with a Super Saiyan would be such an effective means of increasing power. There is no stable groundwork that has been built for such a belief, so to expect a reader to come that conclusion and put that much of their own thought into it is nonsense; it is more likely that is not the case.

[Victorious]

I think the base boys/Mighty Mask being around Android 18 kinda debunks the idea that base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan, etc are not able to fodderize Freeza. Vegeta also said on the plane it wouldnt matter he'd win the tournament in base with 18 sitting right by him. Goku also fought Yakkon in base about evenly, I have a hard time seeing kaioshin being frightened by Yakkon if he was weaker than Freeza. Freeza Kaioshin basiclly considered fodder.

Although I've never seen any real evidence that the SSJ multiplier is consisently 50x. It was 50x on Namek but if Goku could up his Kaiokens from x4 to x20 such a short period of time, you'd figure he'd up his SSJ multiplier too.

So ignoring the Buu saga stuff about base Saiyans then Freeza being stronger than base Goku would be fine but Goku could be 1,000x stronger than Freeza in SSJ, who knows

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think the base boys/Mighty Mask being around Android 18 kinda debunks the idea that base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan, etc are not.

And how exactly are the base boys around #18's level?

Vegeta also said on the plane it wouldnt matter he'd win the tournament in base with 18 sitting right by him.

Vegeta is arrogant & overestimates himself all the time. Evidence from Cell arc & Boo arc show that he is wrong.

I have a hard time seeing kaioshin being frightened by Yakkon if he was weaker than Freeza

Kaioshin was afraid that Goku would get damage, which would transfer energy to Boo. He was overestimating Yakon's abilities because Babidi supposedly only takes strong guys on his side, and underestimated the Saiyans because they were mortals. He only realized that they surpassed him when he saw Super Saiyan Goku in action.

Although I've never seen any real evidence that the SSJ multiplier is consisently 50x. It was 50x on Namek but if Goku could up his Kaiokens from x4 to x20 such a short period of time, you'd figure he'd up his SSJ multiplier too.

Kaio-ken is a technique, while Super Saiyan is a transformation.

[TheMightyOzaru]

You can't increase the SSJ multiplier, that's absurd. SSJ2 and SSJ3 are there for a reason you know.

[Victorious]

And how exactly are the base boys around #18's level?

Because they fight her evenely, and she's never later shown to do a power up or stated to be suppressed.

Vegeta is arrogant & overestimates himself all the time. Evidence from Cell arc & Boo arc show that he is wrong.

Not when he knows his opponent's power. Virtually all his beatdowns in the series take place after the opponent has revealed a new power he hadn't seen before.

Kaioshin was afraid that Goku would get damage, which would transfer energy to Boo. He was overestimating Yakon's abilities because Babidi supposedly only takes strong guys on his side, and underestimated the Saiyans because they were mortals. He only realized that they surpassed him when he saw Super Saiyan Goku in action.

Actually he said that after Goku had shown Super Saiyan 2...about being surpassed. Goku showed SSJ and SSJ2 vs Yakkon.

Why woudl Kaioshin care if base Goku takes damage? SSJ2 Teen Gohan only filled up Buu's ball half way. adding Base Goku should be less than 1%

Kaio-ken is a technique, while Super Saiyan is a transformation.

Yeah I suppose, although if Kaio-ken is just a technique and not a state then why doesn't Goku use it with SSJ like he does the Kamehameha or Shunkan Ido, etc? But I don't see why Goku's SSJ multipler couldnt increase, or decrease. Just theorizing but there's nothing to go against it except for the Saiyans base comments about the 25th Budokai, but if you take those seriously you'd have to put the base Saiyans >>> Android 18 and Piccolo who can fodderize ole Freeza.

You can't increase the SSJ multiplier, that's absurd. SSJ2 and SSJ3 are there for a reason you know.

Why can't they increase the mutitplier, then hit an increase wall, then need SSJ2?


Where does the idea come from that base always equally correlates to SSJ? It's never stated to be exact like Oozaru was or something.

[Kakashi]

If Base Goku is weaker than Frieza so Cell Games Goku would be just 20X stronger than SSjin Goku on Namek which is ridiculous

[TheMightyOzaru]

Because they fight her evenely, and she's never later shown to do a power up or stated to be suppressed.

Actually Krillin explicitly told 18 to hold back so she wouldn't kill anyone. She was suppressed against the boys.

Not when he knows his opponent's power.

Right, except for the time where he keeps fighting 18 thinking he can win, when it's obvious he can't. Or how about the time where he continued to take on Cell despite admitting he put everything he had into a kick? No, Vegeta pretty arrogant.

If Base Goku is weaker than Freeza so Cell Games Goku would be just 20X stronger than SSjin Goku on Namek which is ridiculous

What?

[Victorious]

Right, except for the time where he keeps fighting 18 thinking he can win, when it's obvious he can't. Or how about the time where he continued to take on Cell despite admitting he put everything he had into a kick? No, Vegeta pretty arrogant.

He can't sense 18's ki.

And against Cell he never said manga wise he put everything in his kick first off. Second off he had lost all cofidence and was sweating bullets in awe after that feat. Then quickly went to Final Flash.

[hleV]

The idea of not going SS in the 25th TB was so people wouldn't recognize them from the Cell Games (I think?), what's stopping Vegeta from going SS for 0.1 second and knocking #18 or Piccolo out?

[Victorious]

Right, except for the time where he keeps fighting 18 thinking he can win, when it's obvious he can't. Or how about the time where he continued to take on Cell despite admitting he put everything he had into a kick? No, Vegeta pretty arrogant.

He can't sense 18's ki.

And against Cell he never said manga wise he put everything in his kick first off. Second off he had lost all cofidence and was sweating bullets in awe after that feat. Then quickly went to Final Flash.

Actually Krillin explicitly told 18 to hold back so she wouldn't kill anyone. She was suppressed against the boys.

He just said take it easy and dont kill anyone. Something they did in their original fight vs the Z Senshi where it was never stated she was suppressed there., They didnt kill anyone when they fought the Z Senshi the first time. You don't have to be suppressed not to kill people.

[TheMightyOzaru]

He doesn't have to sense Ki to know he's outmatched. I don't think Vegeta needs to say anything. His expression after he kicked Cell says it all. However, I supposes that's the wrong example. Lets just look at Vegeta's efforts prior to the kick. Despite being made a fool of by Cell, he still thinks he can win because Cell keeps dodgeing his attacks. Arrogance.

The idea of not going SS in the 25th TB was so people wouldn't recognize them from the Cell Games (I think?), what's stopping Vegeta from going SS for 0.1 second and knocking #18 or Piccolo out?

This.

He just said take it easy and dont kill anyone. Something they did in their original fight vs the Z Senshi where it was never stated she was suppressed there., They didnt kill anyone when they fought the Z Senshi the first time. You don't have to be suppressed not to kill people.

Taking it easy is holding back, thus suppression. It also doesn't have to be stated when it's an option, and apparently is the case since BoG states the base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza.

[Kakashi]

The fact that Androids Saga Piccolo should be far stronger than SSjin Trunks when he beat Freeza

Not only it's not a fact, but also, what does this have to do with base Saiyans & Freeza?

Imperfect Cell was several times stronger than Kamiccolo based on how he tanked Piccolo's Light Grenade prove it

We can tell that he is much stronger, but we can't tell how much stronger. He could have been less than 2 times stronger than Piccolo.

The Boo Arc also shows how Kaioshin is impressed at the Base Saiyans but said he can one shit Freeza

Gohan & Vegeta were very impressed by Goten's & Trunks' power respectively... does that make Goten & Trunks stronger than Gohan & Vegeta? Kaioshin was impressed because he didn't expect mortals on Earth to be so powerful.

no way in hell that Kaioshin can one shot the Base Saiyans when he is much weaker than the rest of the Kaioshins who are much weaker than SSjin Gohan

He is said to be the weakest, not much weaker. It could easily have been SS Gohan > South Kaioshin > Dai Kaioshin > West Kaioshin > North Kaioshin > East Kaioshin > Piccolo >>> Base Gohan. There is a x50 difference between base & Super Saiyan, and that's a monstrous difference. And since Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo, he can easily one shot the base Saiyans.

Piccolo was confident when he thought he would be fighting the same androids who beat Trunks and it makes Base Saiyans weaker than Frieza being impossible when the gaps were that big. Krillin says Piccolo is SSjin level and the weakest SSjin he had felt was SSjin Trunks. Imperfect Cell tanked Piccolo's attack which should beat least 3X amplified. Kaioshin was afraid of Yakon who was barely stronger than Base Goku. The kaioshins are much weaker than SSjin Gohan. South Kaioshin should be much stronger than East Kaioshin. If the gap was not big, he would not say he is the weakest. If we take what Piccolo say seriously then East Kaioshin should be many times stronger than him because he said their world are too different. Piccolo > Kaioshin IMO.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Again I'll ask, please stop pulling numbers from a hat and claiming they're fact.

[Victorious]

Taking it easy is holding back, thus suppression. It also doesn't have to be stated when it's an option, and apparently is the case since BoG states the base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza.

It should be stated since everytime in the series it is stated when a character is shown to be suppressed. Or else we could just say anyone was suppressed at any time. Even #17 fought at "less than half" against Futuer Gohan in their first bout.

And the manga says 25th Budokai base Vegeta > Android 18 > Freeza.

He doesn't have to sense Ki to know he's outmatched. I don't think Vegeta needs to say anything. His expression after he kicked Cell says it all. However, I supposes that's the wrong example. Lets just look at Vegeta's efforts prior to the kick. Despite being made a fool of by Cell, he still thinks he can win because Cell keeps dodgeing his attacks. Arrogance.

Vegeta was hot headed after Cell had made a fool of him dodging all his attacks. That was more frustration then arrogance IMO.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Taking it easy is holding back, thus suppression. It also doesn't have to be stated when it's an option, and apparently is the case since BoG states the base Saiyans are weaker than Freeza.

It should be stated since everytime in the series it is stated when a character is shown to be suppressed. Or else we could just say anyone was suppressed at any time. Even #17 fought at "less than half" against Futuer Gohan in their first bout.

And the manga says 25th Budokai base Vegeta > Android 18 > Freeza.

And it was stated, by Krillin .