How strong is Base Vegetto?

[Kakashi]

Boo Arc Base Saiyans shocked Kaioshin who can one shot Freeza. BOG is wrong

Goku also shocked Muten Roshi in the first arc. Does that make Goku stronger than Roshi? Or, Goten impressed Gohan, and Trunks impressed Vegeta. Does that make Goten & Trunks stronger than Gohan & Vegeta?

Kaioshin was impressed with the Saiyans because they were extraordinary strong for mortals.

Kaioshin was afraid of Yakon and wanted to gang up on him. Yakon >/~ Base Goku > Kaioshin. SSjin Teen Gohan is much stronger than South Kaioshin who should be much stronger than East Kaioshin. I doubt the gap between SSjin Teen Gohan to Frieza is not even 50X

[Kakashi]

Base Goku in the Boo Arc is much stronger than Freeza.

He's not.

Boo Arc Base Saiyans shocked Kaioshin who can one shot Freeza. BOG is wrong

Dunno how you people have Boo Arc Base Goku weaker than Freeza with the monstrous gaps in the Cell Saga

BOG Goku is also >> Boo Arc Goku

He repeatedly said that he was shocked because he wasn't aware of beings that powerful in the mortal realm. His comments were never ones of them being stronger than he was, just that he couldn't believe they were that strong in general, especially since he was repeatedly underestimating them beforehand. He overestimated Babi-di's men and likewise underestimated Goku and the others, but that still doesn't mean that he was weaker than they were.[/quote]
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Kaioshin seemed to be aafraidd of Yakon and knew him. He knew Dabura and knew he would beat him. He also knew Yakon and was afraid of him. He wanted to gang up on him. Why if he can one shot him? Kaioshin says he would lose to Goku in Budokai and he never knew the SSjin power

Base Goku >>> Base Goku (Kaioshin's estimations) > Kaioshin >>> Kaioshin

[TheGmGoken]

Let's be fair Kaioshin was scared of ANYTHING with a "M" on it's head. Had Yamcha had a "M" on his forehead he would tell Vegeta and Goku to go SSj and gang up on Yamcha.

Just curious. How did this turn into a debate on how strong Goku is?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kaioshin has only heard of Yakon and Dabura. He's never fought them and therefore doesn't know how strong they are. Dabura is stronger than him since Gohan, who's stated to be stronger than Kaioshin, was fighting on par with him. There is no evidence that Yakon is stronger than Kaioshin. Also, can we please avoid getting into the base Saiyans vs Freeza debate. These arguments have closed way too many threads.

[khalildh]

Let's be fair Kaioshin was scared of ANYTHING with a "M" on it's head. Had Yamcha had a "M" on his forehead he would tell Vegeta and Goku to go SSj and gang up on Yamcha.

Just curious. How did this turn into a debate on how strong Goku is?

I think I am to blame.

[TheGmGoken]

. Also, can we please avoid getting into the base Saiyans vs Freeza debate. These arguments have closed way too many threads.

How did this even happen? What does Base Non fused Saiyans have to do with Base Vegetto? Especially since every fight in Boo Arc had SSJ or a power up of some sort in it.

[Kakashi]

Let's be fair Kaioshin was scared of ANYTHING with a "M" on it's head. Had Yamcha had a "M" on his forehead he would tell Vegeta and Goku to go SSj and gang up on Yamcha.

Just curious. How did this turn into a debate on how strong Goku is?

hE KNEW yAKON AND HIS POWER

[TheGmGoken]

Let's be fair Kaioshin was scared of ANYTHING with a "M" on it's head. Had Yamcha had a "M" on his forehead he would tell Vegeta and Goku to go SSj and gang up on Yamcha.

Just curious. How did this turn into a debate on how strong Goku is?

hE KNEW yAKON AND HIS POWER

Kaioshin has only heard of Yakon and Dabura. He's never fought them and therefore doesn't know how strong they are. Dabura is stronger than him since Gohan, who's stated to be stronger than Kaioshin, was fighting on par with him. There is no evidence that Yakon is stronger than Kaioshin. Also, can we please avoid getting into the base Saiyans vs Freeza debate. These arguments have closed way too many threads.

[Kakashi]

Let's be fair Kaioshin was scared of ANYTHING with a "M" on it's head. Had Yamcha had a "M" on his forehead he would tell Vegeta and Goku to go SSj and gang up on Yamcha.

Just curious. How did this turn into a debate on how strong Goku is?

hE KNEW yAKON AND HIS POWER

Kaioshin has only heard of Yakon and Dabura. He's never fought them and therefore doesn't know how strong they are. Dabura is stronger than him since Gohan, who's stated to be stronger than Kaioshin, was fighting on par with him. There is no evidence that Yakon is stronger than Kaioshin. Also, can we please avoid getting into the base Saiyans vs Freeza debate. These arguments have closed way too many threads.

No he knew Dabura and said he was the strongest in the demon realm

He also knew Yakon

Dabura >>> Yakon >>> Kaioshin

[khalildh]

You have Base Vegetto WEAKER than SSj3 Goku? What? Why!?

The manga doesn't show you either of the Base Saiyan Fusions fighting without Super Saiyan. I think base Gotenks and SSJ Gotenks are just gag scenes until he goes SSJ3 at which point the real fight starts.

Also unless you put massive base gains in between Namek to Boo Saga. Having Base Vegito only stronger than 100% Frieza still fits rather well.

Goku 10 Million, Gotenks 15->20 Million doesn't really matter, Vegetto 200 Million. As you can see he is still a monster compared to the rest of the base saiyans.

[TheGmGoken]

No he knew Dabura and said he was the strongest in the demon realm

He also knew Yakon

Dabura >>> Yakon >>> Kaioshin

Goku knew Freeza was one of the strongest(DUE to King Kai) in the universe and even Goku wasn't prepared for that fight . Doesn't mean Kaioshin met him face to face and sense his power. He just knew about him and heard stories about his power.

But it's no point in debating since this have NOTHING to do with Base Vegetto. AT ALL. Even if we agree to an answer how does it help us with base Vegetto?

Vegetto 200 Million. As you can see he is still a monster compared to the rest of the base saiyans.

Until Goku uses kaioken x20..............

[khalildh]

Vegetto 200 Million. As you can see he is still a monster compared to the rest of the base saiyans.

Until Goku uses kaioken x20..............

Vegetto could use kaioken x20 and in my power scaling he would be stronger than everyone but Bootenks.

[TheGmGoken]

How you explain the fact Vegetto was shocked at his power, wasn't using his full power, and that Goku could be 60 million with MASSIVE gains(3 million to 60 millions) and still be weaker than Freeza.

[KentalSSJ6]

Can we get some scans to help get this back on track?

[khalildh]

How you explain the fact Vegetto was shocked at his power, wasn't using his full power, and that Goku could be 60 million with MASSIVE gains(3 million to 60 millions) and still be weaker than Freeza.

I will go with the BoG explanation.

Base Vegetto is slighty stronger than 100% Freeza and his Super Saiyan is able to toy with Boo as a piece of candy.

In terms of manga power level I would put his base at around 200 million and his Super Saiyan upwards of 10 Billion.

I like this explanation because it doesn't bloat the power scaling for Super Saiyan transformations and still leaves Base Vegetto in the sam realm as a Super Saiyan.

I'm not entirely sure how you come to the conclusion that base Vegetto is only slightly stronger than full power Freeza, but ok.

Basically I have Base Gotenks stronger than Base Goku, but weaker than every SSJ1 both pre and post Rosat. Gotenks SSJ is basically an over-boosted SSJ and within the same realm of power as SSJ2.

For Vegito's Base it honestly cannot be gauged properly for 2 reasons. 1, It isn't used in Combat. 2, We don't know how astronomically stronger SSJ Vegetto is to Buuhan. I put Candy Vegito 2x stronger Buuhan on the low scale, which is why I can say that Base Vegito doesn't need to be very strong.

To be honest though if you believe the Fusion multiplier is something really big, you can ignore what BoG says about Goku being weaker than Freeza, and just assume SSJ Vegito is as strong as he needs to be. If you do assume all of that than you could put Base Vegito stronger than Boohan. I would rather just keep everything low if it isn't specifically mentioned.

It really just depends on the fusion multipliers at that point, with my current fusion multiplier a 60 million Goku in base would make a 7200 million Vegetto in base, but again to lower than number I could just lower the fusion multiplier. Anyway I dislike the notion that a 60million Goku with 20x KK can beat Perfect Cell depending on how you scale the android arc.

[khalildh]

Can we get some scans to help get this back on track?

I don't see how scans can help. We have what? 1 full page of Vegetto in base?

[TheGmGoken]

It really just depends on the fusion multipliers at that point, with my current fusion multiplier a 60 million Goku in base would make a 7200 million Vegetto in base, but again to lower than number I could just lower the fusion multiplier. Anyway I dislike the notion that a 60million Goku with 20x KK can beat Perfect Cell depending on how you scale the android arc.
khalildh
Not-So-Newbie

Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:27 pm

7200 million is not a number. It's 7.2 billion. Also a 60 million Kaioken x20 can't beat Perfect Cell. Seeing as a SSJ(50x), ASSJ( above 50 but below 90x), and USSJ(90x most likely..just say beyond limits) could not Hurt Perfect. a 100x boost(SSj2) was needed to beat Cell. Also I agree. Is there even scans that can help? Besides the Fusion is a multiplier. I don't see any more scans than could help.

[khalildh]

It really just depends on the fusion multipliers at that point, with my current fusion multiplier a 60 million Goku in base would make a 7200 million Vegetto in base, but again to lower than number I could just lower the fusion multiplier. Anyway I dislike the notion that a 60million Goku with 20x KK can beat Perfect Cell depending on how you scale the android arc.
khalildh
Not-So-Newbie

Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:27 pm

7200 million is not a number. It's 7.2 billion. Also a 60 million Kaioken x20 can't beat Perfect Cell. Seeing as a SSJ(50x), ASSJ( above 50 but below 90x), and USSJ(90x most likely..just say beyond limits) could not Hurt Perfect. a 100x boost(SSj2) was needed to beat Cell. Also I agree. Is there even scans that can help? Besides the Fusion is a multiplier. I don't see any more scans than could help.

7200 million and 7.2 Billion are the same exact thing just representations of 7,200,000,000 neither of them are actual numbers, but anyway I would need to know where you put your Cell Games Goku and Cell to validate the 20x KK argument. A better question to get this on topic is, is who are the people that Base Vegito must be stronger than? In-Universe and lets ignore Gotenks because of all the gag scenes.

[AGentlemanSaiyan]

7200 million and 7.2 Billion are the same exact thing just representations of 7,200,000,000 neither of them are actual numbers, but anyway I would need to know where you put your Cell Games Goku and Cell to validate the 20x KK argument. A better question to get this on topic is, is who are the people that Base Vegito must be stronger than? In-Universe and lets ignore Gotenks because of all the gag scenes.

SSJ3 Goku?

[TheGmGoken]

I would need to know where you put your Cell Games Goku and Cell to validate the 20x KK argument. A better question to get this on topic is, is who are the people that Base Vegito must be stronger than? In-Universe and lets ignore Gotenks because of all the gag scenes.

It doesn't matter how I scale them because all we have to know is that it takes a higher multiplier than at least 75x to beat Cell. How you think a KK x20 60 million Goku can rival Perfect Cell(Who is stronger than a 50x increase SSJ GOKU, and perhaps 75x - 90x USSJ, and needed a 100x SSJ2 Gohan to beat him) is just unbelievable. I'm all for opinions but that's illogical. Vegetto in base "has" to be stronger than Gokhan(Since Elder Kai said the fusion would work better for Goku and Vegeta then Goku and Gohan), SSJ 3 Goku, Gotenks, Super Boo, CELL, and FREEZA . Him being on Bootenks level isn't out of the picture.