It's literally the only difference between 'base' and 'Ultimate'.
"yeah, Vegeta's hair isn't black in this scene BUT THAT'S NOT PROOF HE'S SUPER TORIYAMS IS INCONSISTENT"
Goten's Implication Towards Goku
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
The eyes are not the only difference, the hairstyle changes as well.Rocketman wrote:It's literally the only difference between 'base' and 'Ultimate'.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
And now you are just being slightly insulting instead of logical.Rocketman wrote:It's literally the only difference between 'base' and 'Ultimate'.
"yeah, Vegeta's hair isn't black in this scene BUT THAT'S NOT PROOF HE'S SUPER TORIYAMS IS INCONSISTENT"
Like I said, we can't really say that he forgot to draw his SSJ hair differently in his different forms, and then say that he couldn't have forgotten or made any kind of consistency mistake regarding the slight signs of his mystic power and that it HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING.
It's simply too little of a type of indicator that has been proven to not be very consistent.
Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
Somewhat needlessly saucy attitudes aside, Rocketman's right. Gohan was distinctly drawn a certain way after becoming "Ultimate," and it's pointed out in-universe suggesting it's supposed to be a noticeable change in his face musculature or expression or something.
The original manga and even GT consistently kept him that way. The movies and other new recent material don't, and they treat it like a transformation. It's extremely unlikely that they're simply unaware of it instead of just choosing to ignore it.
The original manga and even GT consistently kept him that way. The movies and other new recent material don't, and they treat it like a transformation. It's extremely unlikely that they're simply unaware of it instead of just choosing to ignore it.
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Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
Like I said, I didn't say that the differences aren't there after that point. Just that they don't have to necessarily mean exactly what he thinks he does, given the consistency issues. Drawing an iron-clad conclusion purely from them is simply too much from too little. We can certainly have that interpretation but saying that a new series or movie will be wrong if it goes against that interpretation, purely based on that, seems too much from too little.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
The manga isn't entirely consistent with Ultimate Gohan. In his first chapter, his eyes change, but his hairstyle remains the same. In the next chapter, his hairstyle is different, up until his death. After he is revived, his eyes remain different, but his hairstyle is back to normal. M13 & Dimps' video-games have normal base Gohan "transforming" to Ultimate Gohan. He is still Ultimate in Super & JSAT, apparently, and he is still Ultimate in BoG, but he can still turn into a Super Saiyan, though it doesn't seem to make him any stronger. In FnF, he has lost it due to his lack of training, and he has to turn into a Super Saiyan to become stronger. He seems to be Ultimate again in the 28th TB arc though. In GT, he looks like he is still Ultimate, but he has to turn into a Super Saiyan to become stronger...Kaboom wrote:Somewhat needlessly saucy attitudes aside, Rocketman's right. Gohan was distinctly drawn a certain way after becoming "Ultimate," and it's pointed out in-universe suggesting it's supposed to be a noticeable change in his face musculature or expression or something.
The original manga and even GT consistently kept him that way. The movies and other new recent material don't, and they treat it like a transformation. It's extremely unlikely that they're simply unaware of it instead of just choosing to ignore it.
Ultimate Gohan is a mess. No, Gohan from Boo arc and onwards is a mess in general.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
His hairstyle flickers back and forth, literally from panel to panel. Thinking that that's somehow significant is the longshot bullshitting here.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:In his first chapter, his eyes change, but his hairstyle remains the same.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
It doesn't go back & forth, it moves to the other direction slowly. I didn't mention it because I felt like I would have been nip-ticking, but after going through the previous chapters, Toriyama was consistently drawing Gohan with the bang (which was accompanied with a single hair) to the left (though it does go to the other side a few rare times, but for one panel only). Gohan becomes Ultimate, and his bang slowly moves to the other side, and the chapter ends with his bang (now a single, big, sharp one) to his right side, and consistently stays like that until his death. After his revival, his bang returns to normal for some reason, but his eyes remain fully outlined. Did Toriyama forget that he changed the bang? It could be possible, since he has forgotten small details before. For example, he forgot that he had changed the SS3 eyes during the entirety of the SS3 Gotenks vs Evil Boo & SS3 Goku vs Pure Boo fights. Maybe even in the first U. Gohan chapter, Toriyama didn't intent for the hairstyle to change originally and decided to change it later, and the "moving bang" isn't actually a thing, it was just Toriyama drawing it like that.Rocketman wrote:His hairstyle flickers back and forth, literally from panel to panel. Thinking that that's somehow significant is the longshot bullshitting here.
The hairstyle suddenly changes after Ultimate, why is it bullshit to think that Ultimate is related to it?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
By this point, you are just ignoring what you want to ignore and giving importance to what you want to give importance. Like I said, these things simply aren't consistent enough in Dragon Ball.Rocketman wrote:His hairstyle flickers back and forth, literally from panel to panel. Thinking that that's somehow significant is the longshot bullshitting here.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:In his first chapter, his eyes change, but his hairstyle remains the same.
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dragonballer
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Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
culdn't goten just misunderstood goku being the strongest after he killed the "final" form of buu?
Re: Goten's Implication Towards Goku
Vegeta calls Goku the strongest in the Universe after he beating Majin Buu. Also Goku didn't just go to King Kai's to do normal 10x gravity training, he obviously had King Kai make extremely heavy objects to help him train more.
It seems more and more apparent that anybody who thought Goku & Vegeta maxed out in strength are now hilariously wrong. Especially with all the new training concepts coming into play and Vegeta saying he's going to surpass Goku, despite knowing he only had Ssj2 and Goku has Ssj3.
It seems more and more apparent that anybody who thought Goku & Vegeta maxed out in strength are now hilariously wrong. Especially with all the new training concepts coming into play and Vegeta saying he's going to surpass Goku, despite knowing he only had Ssj2 and Goku has Ssj3.